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Six Places You Canít Concealed Carry (but really should be able to)
guns.com ^ | 12 July, 2012 | Brad Kozak

Posted on 07/14/2012 6:00:16 PM PDT by marktwain

I was leaving work the other night, and it dawned on me, I really wish I had my gun on me right now. Lest you think I was being a bit paranoid, the job I’m speaking of is my work as a professional musician, playing at a club. For my solo act, I’ve got to pack and move a P.A., guitars, keyboard, and assorted effluvia, loading these expensive pieces of equipment in and out every gig. It usually works out that I’m one of the last guys out of the venue, hence the desire for a gun.

The loading areas of bars and nightclubs, share one common characteristic – they virtually all look as though a movie production scout would find them to be the perfect place to stage a mugging, rape, or murder. However, even if you have a concealed handgun license, you’re not allowed (in most states) to carry, where alcohol is served, which got me to thinking about all the many places where you can’t carry, but likely wish you could.

1. Bars

Guns and alcohol don’t mix. I get it and I trust any serious gun owner feels the same way because the last thing in the world people want is some drunken idiot to up to the ante in a barroom dispute by pulling out his 9mm—the mother of all bad ideas and makes gun owners look bad.

But what about those of us who make a living at bars and restaurants and do not imbibe at work? Making us working, teetotalers leave our lawfully carried weapons at home leaves us open to the kinds of people that look at the rules we are following as something that "doesn't apply to them". These are the kinds of people that think it’s perfectly acceptable to settle an argument with a gun, or to rob a hard-working musician of his daily bread by jacking him in the parking lot.

Now you might argue that if you live in a state that doesn’t allow you to carry in a bar when you’re not drinking, you might be better served to carry concealed anyway. It’s the old “better to be judged by twelve than carried by six” argument. I disagree. If I’m bankrupted by defense lawyers or incarcerated for years, I’m no more good to my young daughter than I would be if I’d been shot dead.

My compromise is to make certain I take every precaution I can (tactical light, pen, and knife on my person and keep those Spidey-senses on Condition Yellow), and be smart about things. Situational awareness rocks. Park near a streetlight, leave with other people, that sort of thing. If I’m playing in what my ex used to call a “transitional neighborhood” (read: “bad part of town,”) I’ll sometimes keep a gun locked in my car, where I can presumably get to it – maybe – if needs be.

But bars aren’t the only places you might wish you had a gun. High up on my list: schools and hospitals.

2. Hospitals

Gun Free zone sign.I’m of the belief that declaring something a “GUN FREE ZONE” is tantamount to painting a big target on the place, like a sign that reads “TARGET-RICH ENVIRONMENT” and I don’t think I’ve been to a hospital in this country (and many others) that didn’t have them posted in spades. If you’re a psychotic, bent on taking as many people with you as possible on your Day of Destruction, there’s nothing quite like knowing there will be no possibility of armed resistance to get the ol’ homicidal juices flowing.

This is why every time I occasion to visit an emergency room, I’m constantly scanning the crowd to see if anybody looks as if they are about to slip their chain and go all street rat crazy on the rest of us. Of course, that would be cold comfort if Mr. Crazy Person just walks in, guns a-blazin,’ like some deranged Rambo type, but since most mass shootings involve the element of surprise, the less surprised I am and the more time I’ve got to take cover, the better are my odds of survival.

3. Schools

In our post-9/11 world, it suddenly seemed possible that some insignificant school in a sleepy little burg like Amarillo might be a terrorist target (not likely, mind you, but possible).

My daughter used to attend a charter school in Amarillo. It was located in what had been a strip center—a long, low building with ceiling-to-floor, plate glass windows, with a parking lot in front of the whole thing. I played out scenarios in my head, whereby some terrorists in a truck drive through the front of the building, jump out and take the entire school hostage (sound paranoid? I suppose it does, but ask the grieving parents in Beslan how they feel about paranoia after the Chechens did a number on their school).

I met with the principal and voiced my concerns, asking if the school at least had a plan in case some kind of disaster – any kind of disaster – were to befall the school. He told me “we put that in God’s hands.”

Guns in schools.

Now I’m a Christian, and I firmly believe in putting things in God’s hands. But I also believe in the familiar words o’ wisdom attributed to Ben Franklin: “God helps those who help themselves.” I see nothing wrong with taking prudent steps to make a “soft target” a little more fortified and harder to hit.

When the Texas legislature took up this very issue in their last session, opponents of gun rights were screaming about putting guns in the hands of irresponsible underclassmen (though it seems to be doing fine in Colorado). Funny, but concealed handgun permits are only issued in Texas to those over the age of 21, so even allowing concealed handgun permit holders to carry their weapon on campus would not have resulted in any students under the age of 21 being able to carry in the first place. As it stands now, not even faculty can legally carry And that’s an invitation to disaster.

After hospitals and schools, the next thing I considered was government buildings, especially anything related to our justice system.

4. Government Buildings

I get why you’d want to keep guns out of courtrooms, especially family court. An abusive spouse, an emotionally-charged divorce or custody case – that sort of thing is ripe for a tragedy involving guns.

But what about when someone literally “goes postal” the post office? What about city hall? Libraries?

At least the courts do more than put up a sign. Metal detectors at least improve the odds that anybody prone to violence will do it outside the courthouse (having said that, your biggest risk at a courthouse would be getting to and from your car, since you’re obviously unarmed).

5. Airplanes

Like courthouses, airplanes, too, are one of those places that I get why you wouldn’t want a surplus of guns, at least not in the hands of Guns on planes.terrorists bent on taking down a plane, but I would still like to know there’s a gun on-board in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.

What makes a plane different? First of all, flying at 30,000 feet, if you introduce a hole into a fuselage, you’re liable to have a massive failure of the hull, and a few passengers that ignored that pesky seat belt admonition will go flying out the newly-created sunroof.

Oh, and if one of those stray bullets happens to perforate the crew, it’s not like some passenger is gonna know how to land a crippled 737, so I concede that keeping loaded guns out of the hands of passengers is at least understandable in that context (keeping them out of the hands of pilots is less so, but that’s a topic for another time). And again, at least the government takes a stab at keeping weapons off planes (with metal detectors and full-body scanners).

6. “Gun Free” Businesses

Aside from bars, restaurants, schools, hospitals, airplanes and certain government buildings there’s one last place that I’d say I really want access to my gun. That would be at any business that posts signs stating that guns are not welcome on the premises.

To me, these are the moral equivalent of a “KICK ME” sign taped to someone’s back at a party. Just like locks keep honest people honest, all a sign does is to keep We the Sheeple in line. It does nothing to deter a determined criminal, nut-job, or other miscreant, bent on shooting up the joint. I highly doubt, the guy who’s been acting erratically and just got fired is really going to think back to that sign, when he runs out to the parking lot and suits up for a little live target practice.

It’s unnecessary and insulting to the customers who could have helped the store from getting robbed.

Generally speaking, cutouts in the concealed carry laws across the country sound reasonable. Unfortunately, the practical application of these “reasonable” ideas have far too often led to tragedy. The problem with these rules is that they do nothing to stop those that have murder on their minds, but completely disarm anyone who might be otherwise equipped and so-inclined to stop the bad guys in their tracks. Maybe we should stop passing laws that sound good, and instead allow a little common sense into the debate.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: banglist; ccw; defense; gunfree
Quite a few states allow carry in bars. None of the above should be a matter of law. Places paid for by public funs should not restrict constitutional rights. Private places should have full liability (as in the Wisconsin law) if they do.
1 posted on 07/14/2012 6:00:22 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

7...Trenton NJ


2 posted on 07/14/2012 6:05:06 PM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: marktwain

A bullet hole in the fuselage of a pressurized aircraft will NOT cause a structural failure....this is a fallacy....

The cockpit door is bulletproof so the flight crew is safe....

If the other passengers were armed then the “perp’would be dead very quickly....


3 posted on 07/14/2012 6:06:38 PM PDT by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: marktwain

Free men don’t ask permission.


4 posted on 07/14/2012 6:08:00 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: carriage_hill; DaveLoneRanger

Amen and ping.


5 posted on 07/14/2012 6:09:13 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini--nevertheless, Vote Santorum!)
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To: nevergore

I remember on Mythbusters when they were shooting holes in a pressurized fuselage. They got nuthin but noise.


6 posted on 07/14/2012 6:10:08 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: marktwain

I aways think that I should be able to carry in the post office since a employee might go postal. BTW I was very well aquanted with the guy that caused the term going postal. We went to high school together and he was in my motorcycle store about a week before and was telling me about trouble he was having at work. You can imagine my shock when he did something about it.


7 posted on 07/14/2012 6:10:31 PM PDT by Okieshooter
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To: marktwain

If it’s in your pocket and nobody see it .... then ....


8 posted on 07/14/2012 6:12:25 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("Ambition Without Talent Is Sad - Talent Without Ambition Is Worse")
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To: marktwain

If it’s in your pocket and nobody saw it .... then ....


9 posted on 07/14/2012 6:13:08 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("Ambition Without Talent Is Sad - Talent Without Ambition Is Worse")
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To: marktwain

The one that drives me nuts in Nebraska is that you can’t carry on city trails or city parks.


10 posted on 07/14/2012 6:17:16 PM PDT by tuwood
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To: marktwain
6. “Gun Free” Businesses

That is their right. "Property Rights." Trumps 2nd amendment rights. You have the right to refuse patronage.

11 posted on 07/14/2012 6:21:45 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: marktwain
You are a musician. How about a violin case like this one: :)
12 posted on 07/14/2012 6:25:01 PM PDT by Jyotishi (Seeking the truth, a fact at a time.)
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To: Okieshooter

Pat was a known nutburger - one of his victims attended my church. My fellow congregation member came to family fellowship after Sunday services and had made passing references about Pat and his nutburger ways. Until it happened, nobody really understood workplace violence.


13 posted on 07/14/2012 6:28:13 PM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: marktwain
... and assorted effluvia ... .

This phrase alone was worth the price of admission.

Thank you Free Republic!

14 posted on 07/14/2012 6:32:46 PM PDT by JohnG45
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To: marktwain

I don’t believe in Conceal Carry laws! Under the Constitution your rights shall not me infringed upon. So to me that means Under the constitution you can carry anywhere you like unless your a convicted Felon!!!! Of course the constitution doesn’t talk about felons it only says citizens!


15 posted on 07/14/2012 6:35:15 PM PDT by tallyhoe
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To: T-Bird45

Yes, he was alway a bit of a strange duck. Very quiet and not very out going. Of course hindsight is 20-20 but I have wondered if he was trying to tell be something when he dropped by my shop. We were not really close, but I don’t think he really had any close friends.


16 posted on 07/14/2012 6:40:29 PM PDT by Okieshooter
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To: Okieshooter
I aways think that I should be able to carry in the post office since a employee might go postal. BTW I was very well aquanted with the guy that caused the term going postal. We went to high school together and he was in my motorcycle store about a week before and was telling me about trouble he was having at work. You can imagine my shock when he did something about it.

That's another reason to carry. Prejudice in the federal work area due to mandates dictated that a sector of society will be promoted over others who earned it already (women and minorities). The victim levels the playing field with his gun from his car, and you must witness this or wait your turn to be shot unarmed.

17 posted on 07/14/2012 6:42:01 PM PDT by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: tuwood
The one that drives me nuts in Nebraska is that you can’t carry on city trails or city parks.

The very place where rapes, robberies, muggings would take place.

18 posted on 07/14/2012 6:49:27 PM PDT by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: marktwain

Thank you Florida, Virginia and Utah!


19 posted on 07/14/2012 7:02:01 PM PDT by JohnG45
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To: marktwain; All

One of the best videos around that destroys Gun Free Zone idea:

Make your own Gun Free Zone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhgzcioPet8&feature=player_detailpage


20 posted on 07/14/2012 7:07:48 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: marktwain

New York allows bar carry, and drinking while carrying (no BAC limit). If NY hasn’t banned it (being hell-bent on enacting gun bans on any pretext), it’s not a problem.


21 posted on 07/14/2012 7:11:35 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: marktwain

Someone told me it was federal crime to carry in a bank? True or not?


22 posted on 07/14/2012 7:16:03 PM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: marktwain

One exception to this list is hospitals, uniquely for the reason of raw oxygen and other compressed gases, and other flammable materials which can be insanely deadly in the presence of spark or flame.

I saw pictures that were a wonderful way of explaining this. Taken at a welding school, a pressurized tank of gas fell over and knocked the head valve of the tank off. Like a torpedo, it punched holes in both sides of thick concrete bays, one after another, 5 or six total, before finally punching through an exterior brick wall, crossing a street and breaking, but not penetrating the brick wall of an adjacent building.

And that gas didn’t even ignite to do this.

In any event, the interior walls of a hospital are laced with pressurized gas pipes, electrical wiring and plumbing. Heaven knows what a stray bullet could do.

However, this being said, if a hospital has armed security personnel be-bopping about, they are likely indifferent to this threat, and are more concerned about crazy people, with or without drugs.

But that is not the problem of a legitimate cc holder.


23 posted on 07/14/2012 7:35:09 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: marktwain
Why not just assume everyone in the USA is armed with lethal weapons at all times?

Does it really matter in a life or death situation whether or not someone obtained a government issued permit prior to defending themselves?
Does the government issue permits for rapists, robbers, psychos, and gangsters?
No?

Why the incessant demand for law abiding citizens to “prove” our worthiness to defend ourselves with lethal force?

24 posted on 07/14/2012 7:50:21 PM PDT by sarasmom ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZsFe6dM3EY)
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To: marktwain

25 posted on 07/14/2012 7:52:52 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1270 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: nevergore

Yes, I honestly abhor the current airline ‘security’ practices. I only fly when I don’t have an option of driving.

I think they ought to offer a second security model. The first of course is the current sheeple model. The second would be issuing (or letting people bring their own) pistols to everyone on the plane. Make sure everyone has Glaser or some very low penetration ammo and off you go. Anyone who gets up and starts trouble would be down in short order.


26 posted on 07/14/2012 8:06:05 PM PDT by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: marktwain
Carrying in a bar is legal in Arizona IF you have CCw and you do not imbibe.
The other places and on most Indian Reservations you are SOL.
27 posted on 07/14/2012 8:09:51 PM PDT by Tupelo (TeaPartier ..... but no longer a Republican)
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To: marktwain
If I’m bankrupted by defense lawyers or incarcerated for years, I’m no more good to my young daughter than I would be if I’d been shot dead.

That's a very strange comment, particularly from a Christian.

28 posted on 07/14/2012 8:59:21 PM PDT by Lady Lucky (If you believe what you're saying, quit making taxable income.)
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To: marktwain

This is actually not totally correct. These laws vary state to state. The writer may be writing about his particular state, but not every state is like his.

In Wisconsin for example you can carry concealed in a bar. However you cannot be drinking alcohol.


29 posted on 07/14/2012 9:09:03 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Okieshooter

I’m from Edmond! Graduated Edmond High in 1979. I believe I was living in Austin, TX when the shooting occurred. I lived off 33rd and Coltrane. :)


30 posted on 07/14/2012 9:46:59 PM PDT by melissa_in_ga (Laz would hit it.)
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To: Okieshooter

I hit post too fast. I was going to add that it must seem surreal that you knew Sherrill, and that someone you knew would actually do what he did.


31 posted on 07/14/2012 9:49:14 PM PDT by melissa_in_ga (Laz would hit it.)
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To: melissa_in_ga

“I hit post too fast. I was going to add that it must seem surreal that you knew Sherrill, and that someone you knew would actually do what he did.”

Actually I have been aquanted with two murderers in my life. In hindsight maybe maybe what Pat did could have been predicted since he was strange and a loner. I also have two friends that Pat had worked for and they said they had lots of problems wih his performance at work.

The other guy was seemed very normal and was very good worker and worked at the same place that I did. His was a very different crime though. I guess you might call it a crime of passion as he killed his giirfriend’s husband.


32 posted on 07/15/2012 2:38:31 AM PDT by Okieshooter
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To: Doogle
7...Trenton NJ

NJ

33 posted on 07/15/2012 5:37:51 AM PDT by carriage_hill (All libs and most dems think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: lightman
No mention of "churches" or "synagogues", though several of my Jewish friends say their rabbis specifically prohibit it, although it's unposted. They'll just become "free-fire zones", IMO, with that attitude, if when muzzie sleeper-cell-terrorist filth go on their certain-to-happen-oneday-soon, "soft target" rampage.
34 posted on 07/15/2012 5:48:16 AM PDT by carriage_hill (All libs and most dems think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: raybbr; All
Someone told me it was federal crime to carry in a bank? True or not?

Not true. I have open carried in numerous financial institutions. One manager told me it was illegal. I politely asked her to check.

A few minutes later, she came back and apologized. I wrote a letter to her supervisor praising her for her professional manner.

35 posted on 07/15/2012 7:12:23 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: T-Bird45

Who is/was “Pat”?


36 posted on 07/15/2012 5:14:50 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

Pat Sherrill, the shooter at the Edmond (OK) post office massacre in 1986. The source of the term “going postal”.


37 posted on 07/15/2012 7:16:06 PM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: T-Bird45
Thanks. I will refresh my recollection.
38 posted on 07/16/2012 7:23:45 AM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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