How Romneycare is like Obamacare on taxes

Salon.com ^ | Friday, Jun 29, 2012 | Alex Seitz-Wald

[SoConPubbie]

Mitt Romney is slamming Obamacare as a huge tax increase, but his Massachusetts mandate did the exact same thing

While Chief Justice John Roberts dealt Republicans a blow Thursday by upholding Obamacare, he also handed them a political weapon by designating the law’s individual mandate a tax. “Obamacare raises taxes on the American people by approximately $500 billion,” Mitt Romney said in his brief remarks responding to the court’s ruling yesterday.

One Romney adviser told the Huffington Post that the decision is actually a win for Republicans, at least in terms of messaging. “Frankly, to be able to tell you your taxes have been raised by this bill and you didn’t know that, as opposed to trying to explain Congress’s powers under the commerce clause, it’s easier.”

The Republican National Committee has even mocked up a T-shirt on the tax issue, playing off Vice President Biden’s comments that health care reform is a BFD. The RNC’s shirt declares that Obamacare is “a BFTax.”

The problem here for Romney is that his health care law in Massachusetts did the exact same thing as the Roberts-tweaked version of Obamacare will do. The individual mandate Romney installed uses the same tax scheme to penalize free riders as the Affordable Care Act will, charging people who choose to not purchase health insurance a penalty through the tax code. And Romney himself has acknowledged as much — many times.

In 2008, when Romney was running for president for the first time, ABC News host Charlie Gibson asked him during a New Hampshire debate, “Governor … you imposed tax penalties in Massachusetts?” Romney replied, “Yes, we said, look, if people can afford to buy it, either buy the insurance or pay your own way; don’t be free riders.” It was the same debate in which he infamously declared, “I like mandates.”

In 2006, Romney explained in a Powerpoint presentation how the state would enforce his mandate. “We will withhold any of their tax refund” for people who don’t purchase insurance, he said. The former governor said the same thing in a 2009 interview with CNN: “There are a number of ways to encourage people to get insurance, and what we did, we said ‘you’re going to lose a tax exemption if you don’t have insurance.’”

[SoConPubbie]

And the Un-Masking of Mitt Romney, the lying, left-wing, Progressive Liberal, continues . . . "If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures." - Alexander Hamilton "We don't intend to turn the Republican Party over to the traitors in the battle just ended. We will have no more of those candidates who are pledged to the same goals as our opposition and who seek our support. Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn’t make any sense at all." -- President Ronald Reagan "A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." - Thomas Paine 1792 "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

[GeorgeWashingtonsGhost]

Saying that what is done in ONE State is equal to that which is imposed upon ALL 50 STATES, is a stretch of epic proportions.

[Teacher317]

Not at all. The ONLY difference is that Romney didn’t have the authority to impose it on more people... at the time. There is no substantive difference between ObamaCare and RomneyCare when it comes to assaults on Freedom, the hyper-extension of government intrusion, and / or the progression of collectivist Socialism.

[ejonesie22]

Governors become Presidents...

[Teacher317]

(Well, okay.... at least Romney didn’t have the 10th Amendment to ignore.)

[rwilson99]

Comrade,

Thank you for supporting our Dear Leader, President Obama.

[SoConPubbie]

Saying that what is done in ONE State is equal to that which is imposed upon ALL 50 STATES, is a stretch of epic proportions.

What a canard!

So if Romney passed laws requiring Abortion in his state, that is not the same as passing laws requiring Abortion in all 50 states?

You are on record, on a conservative website, devoted to defeating socialism in all it's forms, as stating that Socialism IMPOSED in ONE state is far better than Imposed socialism in all 50 states?

Are you for real?

[rwilson99]

There’s enough revenue collected in the ObamaCare abortion coverage to terminate every pregnancy in groups covered by the subsidized plans.

Huge difference.

[SoConPubbie]

Comrade,

Thank you for supporting our Dear Leader, President Obama.

Comrade,

Try refuting the facts and logic presented in the article rather than employing DU type behavior to blow right past the truth and support that lying, left-wing, Progressive Liberal Mitt Romney.

[ejonesie22]

I'm sorry but your post should be removed. Now that Mitt has the nod he is a rock ribbed conservative. He never had anything to do with Romneycare, it never existed...

Please comply...

[SoConPubbie]

There’s enough revenue collected in the ObamaCare abortion coverage to terminate every pregnancy in groups covered by the subsidized plans.

Huge difference.

RomneyCare included a $50 Co-Pay Abortion.

Abortion is Abortion.

A Dead Baby is a Dead Baby.

There is no difference just as there isn't a slightly less dead.

Quit making excuses for the bad choices of Romney.

[SoConPubbie]

I'm sorry but your post should be removed. Now that Mitt has the nod he is a rock ribbed conservative. He never had anything to do with Romneycare, it never existed...

Please comply...

LOL!

[ejonesie22]

No kidding, how dare these idiots discuss Romney's record. I can think of nothing more that could help Obama than that...

Whose side are they on for Christ’s sake...

[Gay State Conservative]

Well,at last I'm convinced:

ROMNEY IS SATAN'S EVIL TWIN!

[The Iceman Cometh]

Try refuting the facts and logic presented in the article rather than employing DU type behavior to blow right past the truth and support that lying, left-wing

Wait, you're using Salon to establish 'facts and logic'?

You fail.

[ilgipper]

When it comes to the mandate, you are correct. Beyond that, there is not much similarity. The mass bill was around 75 pages. Obamacare is 2700. Obamacare is much much more intrusive than anything ever done on a state level. While the mandate was primarily what we challenged constitutionally, the major problems in obamacare is the massive centralization of healthcare control from policy coverage to limiting services to the elderly. It is not the job of the federal government nor is it a good way to address the problems in our insurance system.

[SoConPubbie]

Wait, you're using Salon to establish 'facts and logic'?

You fail.

Try refuting the facts and logic presented, don't punt and stick your tail between your legs and run away from the fight.

[SoConPubbie]

While the mandate was primarily what we challenged constitutionally, the major problems in obamacare is the massive centralization of healthcare control from policy coverage to limiting services to the elderly. It is not the job of the federal government nor is it a good way to address the problems in our insurance system.

Neither is it the job of a State level government to force the purchase of Health Care insurance with an Individual Mandate.

Neither is it the job of a State level government to steal from taxpayers their hard-earned cash and use it to fund the HealthCare of non-taxpaying individuals including illegal Aliens. That is income redistribution.

[SoConPubbie]

Well,at last I'm convinced:

ROMNEY IS SATAN'S EVIL TWIN!

[GeorgeWashingtonsGhost]

Am I for real? I’m for the Constitution is what I’m for. Our Forefather’s were big on State’s rights. Although I’m against any form of 0bamacare or Romneycare, with Romneycare AT LEAST YOU CAN ESCAPE IT IF YOU SO CHOOSE BY MOVING TO ANOTHER STATE. Under 0bamacare THERE IS NO ESCAPE! All I’m saying is to compare what one State has to what the entire country is ORDERED TO DO, misrepresents the ‘Federal vs. State’ relationship under our Constitution!

[JoSixChip]

"Neither is it the job of a State level government to force the purchase of Health Care insurance with an Individual Mandate."

Can you show me where that is documented, or are you just making that up?

[SoConPubbie]

Can you show me where that is documented, or are you just making that up?

What part of forcing people to purchase HealthCare Insurance and then fining them if they do not and using the taxpayer's hard-earned cash to pay for someone else's healthcare don't you understand as being socialism?

I'm not talking about what is legal, Abortion is legal as well.

Should we as conservatives be backing Abortion at the state level because it is legal?

How about "Assault" Weapon Bans like the one that Mitt Romney did at the State level? That was legal too. I guess we should just fall in line for that too, right?

How about Carbon Cap and Trade systems like the one that Mitt Romney almost got implemented at the state level. That's legal too.

Legality isn't the issue here, conservatism is.

[SoConPubbie]

Am I for real? I’m for the Constitution is what I’m for. Our Forefather’s were big on State’s rights. Although I’m against any form of 0bamacare or Romneycare, with Romneycare AT LEAST YOU CAN ESCAPE IT IF YOU SO CHOOSE BY MOVING TO ANOTHER STATE. Under 0bamacare THERE IS NO ESCAPE! All I’m saying is to compare what one State has to what the entire country is ORDERED TO DO, misrepresents the ‘Federal vs. State’ relationship under our Constitution!

From a conservative perspective, you're offering a distinction without a difference.

Yours is a position of retreat and acceptance rather than full-on defiance of something that is inherently unconservative, legalities or not.

You're having to do this because you are supporting that lying, left-wing, progressive liberal Mitt Romney. If this were a Democrat, you would never have applied the same situational ethics and principles that you are using in this case.

[JoSixChip]

Look at you, twisting yourself into a pretzel to trash the Republican Presidential candidate. Referencing a sleazy publication (salon) and making up laws out of thin air. You sound just like a democrat.

[balls]

You Romney haters on this site are f’n nuts. Grow up you little bastards!

[SoConPubbie]

Look at you, twisting yourself into a pretzel to trash the Republican Presidential candidate. Referencing a sleazy publication (salon) and making up laws out of thin air. You sound just like a democrat.

Look at you, twisting yourself into a pretzel, eschewing your own conservative principles, ignoring the truth about your candidate to support a lying, left-wing, progressive Liberal like Mitt Romney. You sound just like a quisling.

Once again:

Legality isn't the issue here, conservatism is.

[SoConPubbie]

Other freepers who are just as sick of this crap on FR as I am should know that there is a new alternative: Trueblueliberty.com. Try it. You’ll like it.

Sorry buddy, but it's the Romney lovers who enjoy that site, not conservatives sticking to their guns.

You really are confused, aren't you?!

[SoConPubbie]

RomneyCare vs. ObamaCare or how they are comparable Ping!

[SoConPubbie]

Thanks, I’ll check it out. Glad I saw it before the gestapo (JR) had a chance to delete your post.

I am sure you meant to ping Jim when you referenced him in your last post.

[DallasSun]

Kewl beans..thanks SoConPubbie!

[DallasSun]

You are refusing to allow reality to permeate your judgement in any way. What you said makes no sense at all. Romney was in no position to impose Romneycare on all 50 states..or he would have.

[DallasSun]

How is stating the truth about Romney supporting President Obama? It is not. It is simply stating the truth. You want us to ignore reality?? One would have to in order to vote for Romney for a myriad of reasons.

[DallasSun]

By telling the truth you are accusing SoConPubbie of being a democrat? You mean you have to lie in order to be a Republican? You want us to be dishonest? If we are not dishonest, we are democrats? What does that say about you?

[EternalVigilance]

"A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.

An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city.

But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.

For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victim, and he wears their face and their garments and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men.

He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist.

A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the plague."

-- Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Orator - 106-43 B.C.

[Gay State Conservative]

You Romney haters on this site are f’n nuts. Grow up you little bastards!

I was using sarcasm to respond to a Romney hater.*I* am not a Romney hater.

[DallasSun]

Have you considered maybe the freepers who are not voting for Romeny are conservatives? With principles? And integrity?

[DallasSun]

If that is the way you feel about JR why are you on his site?

[Logical me]

Getting tired of this crap about Romneycare. How did the bill originate, who wrote it, etc. It was not Romney. He signed it but remember Massachusetts was controlled by Democrats and that was where the bill came from. Is this wrong? Clue me in!

[SoConPubbie]

Romney Makes Case For Government-Run Health Care (9.21.09)

Mitt Romney - "I like mandates. The mandates work." (Mar 23, 2011)

Romney on individual mandate

Romney-Kennedy Health Care Bill Signing (Romney praising Kennedy)(Aug 23, 2007)

Romneycare Funded Health-Care for Illegal Immigrants (October 24, 2011)

New Romney Healthcare Czar, Pam Bondi, on Greta defending RomneyCare and his Healthcare Task Force

Health care remains one of President Obama's greatest political weaknesses. But the issue is an equally serious problem for Republican Mitt Romney. As governor of Massachusetts, Romney instituted an early variant of President Obama's program, mandating the purchase of insurance. Romney continues to defend his system with desperate attempts to distinguish it from Obamacare. The best he can say is that his program was constitutional, since states, unlike Washington, possess the so-called "police power," allowing them to regulate most anything. Alas, even the former governor's constitutional scruples are suspect. In 1994 he backed a federal mandate.

[Jim Robinson]

mole zot

[Jim Robinson]

well, bye.

[SoConPubbie]

Getting tired of this crap about Romneycare. How did the bill originate, who wrote it, etc. It was not Romney. He signed it but remember Massachusetts was controlled by Democrats and that was where the bill came from. Is this wrong? Clue me in!

True to form, Romney became deeply immersed in crafting the health-care proposal. Moffit recalls that when he was asked to brief Romney, he found the tables turned. Romney was the one who gave Moffit the comprehensive PowerPoint presentation. “In 25 years of briefing elected officials and senior government executives, this was the first time I was the one who got briefed,” Moffit says. “It was like being in a private class with a very high-energy professor, and Romney was the professor and I was the student.

[SZonian]

Why did he sign it then?

Let the Legislature override his veto and his fingerprints are nowhere to be found on the bill.

It’s no longer Romneycare morphing into 0bamacare with the help of some of Romney’s most senior advisers.

Instead...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_reform

[COBOL2Java]

Bump!

[rwilson99]

I didn’t support Mitt in the primary, but right now he’s the ONLY chance we have to beat Obama.

So let everyone know when you’re ready to join us over here in realityville.

[The Iceman Cometh]

Try refuting the facts and logic presented, don't punt and stick your tail between your legs and run away from the fight.

Post a reputable source then we can talk.

[sport]

Thanks.

[SoConPubbie]

Post a reputable source then we can talk.

Still runnin' away.