Skip to comments.Under siege: "Stop and frisk" polarizes New York
Posted on 07/03/2012 8:28:08 AM PDT by EBH
Telly Hudgins has been stopped and frisked by the police too many times to count in the Brownsville, New York, public housing project where he lives. One occasion sticks in his memory. "I had my pajamas on and my slippers on and I'm emptying my garbage" at the trash chute. "They asked me for ID to prove I lived there. Who walks around in their pajamas with ID?" asked the black, 35-year-old counselor for the mentally handicapped. He says he complained about the search and was issued a summons for disorderly conduct.
Deborah Richardson, 60, a black postal worker, has delivered mail in east Brooklyn's Brownsville for 14 years. She takes a different view of the New York Police Department's contentious Stop, Question and Frisk policy. "I'd like to see more stops and frisks," she said, leaning out of her postal truck. "This is a dangerous neighborhood. I won't even go up in those monstrosities anymore," she said, gesturing toward one of the towering housing complexes where she once pushed a mail cart. After four years of what she says was harassment from residents, many waiting for welfare checks, she got a transfer to a parcel truck delivery route.
For nearly two months the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy has drawn New York City into an emotional debate about race, policing and Fourth Amendment rights. Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly have fiercely defended the program against an onslaught of criticism from judges, civil rights leaders and a vocal block of Democratic politicians. It has become a defining issue for next year's mayoral election.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
“The vast majority of stop & frisk stops do not involve reasonable suspicion, and are illegal.”
Got a source for that isn’t from some a-hole commie website?
Take it from this NYC cop. You can give a DisCon summonse to a ham sandwich and it’ll hold up in court. It takes about 3 minutes to write one and they are good tickets to write.
Brother Bloomers just lookin’ out fo’ the fokes.
I don’t disagree with you, but you have to have reasonable suspicion for the stop. Taking your garbage out in your pajamas—assuming that is the full extent of the story—is not reasonable suspicion to justify a seizure, no matter in which neighborhood you live. People that live in crappy neighborhoods don’t forfeit fourth amendment protections merely by virtue of where they live.
That is exactly what I was referring to. The law means nothing to cops these days and the legal system makes no effort whatsoever to restrain them. Frankly, I'm way beyond giving a damn when one gets fragged along the way.
So, you’re fine with a cop being murdered but you’re not ok with cops stopping someone for 3 minutes if there is reasonable suspicion that the person has committed or is about to commit a crime. You sound like a total j/o, IMHO.
Hey now lay off, he is a Republican.
Why should he have a problem with it even you have said that it is acceptable for a cop to kill a citizen
Is it wrong? Yes. Is it acceptable? Yes.
Life (and death) ain't always butterflies and rainbows.
170 posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 3:32:12 PM by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies | Report Abuse] ________________________________________
So a Terry Stop is lawless behavior? Take it up with the Supreme Court. They seem to disagree. Along with every other court in the country.
In general, I couldn't care less if a cop is killed, especially in a place like New York, where the citizens are almost completely disarmed, and the police are just fine with that. In fact, in such places, I care considerably less about the death of a cop than just about the death of just about any other citizen.
And no, I'm not fine with cops searching just anyone they get a hankering to. Remember it was you who said:
"You can give a DisCon summonse to a ham sandwich and itll hold up in court".
Too bad there are so many cops out there like you who think so little of abusing their authority that you'd make a comment like that here. You, and other cops like you are why so many citizens don't give a rats ass what happens to you. In general, I wouldn't take the time to urinate if you were on fire.
More broadly, and this only applies to you if you know in your heart that it does, “lawless” is the sort of dog-shooting, granny-beating, hassling-open-carriers behavior that gets documented all to often — and often with video — on these pages.
By the way, this is the last “so, ...” posting of yours that I will answer.
You are known.
You are obviously one of the 90% of the cops who give the other 10% a bad name. I think it's appalling there are cops who prowl the streets and think screwing innocent people for life with criminal misdemeanors (for failure to grovel) is a wonderful thing.
You make me want to puke. I'm with that guy who wouldn't piss on you to put out a fire.
After reading the totality of your comments, I'm forced to agree with the your first clause. If a few of you get knocked off for refusing to respect the citizens, there will be fewer of you with that chip on your shoulder. IMHO. My apologies to the families of JBTs everywhere.
“So, youre fine with a cop being murdered but youre not ok with cops stopping someone for 3 minutes if there is reasonable suspicion that the person has committed or is about to commit a crime. You sound like a total j/o, IMHO.
Why shouldn’t we be fine with someone killing a cop? You seem to think our civil rights are optional and the Constitution is your toilet paper.
And why would I believe your ‘reasonable suspicion” when to you simply the act of breathing is reasonable suspicion.
You earned the opinion people have of you.
There should be mandatory 10 year felony for any "Govt. Official" breaking their "oath of Office"
“The cops there know the stops are illegal w/o out consent or reasonable suspicion. Few of the people they stop know it tho. Im curious to see how one would react when a very polite person they stopped turned out to be someone who did know.”
It amazes me the number of people that have no idea what their rights are. Even more amazing is the number of cops who either have no idea or else feel perfectly comfortable violating someones rights.
A terrible day for freedom in this country.
Nah...stop and frisk is unconstitutional...there’s no probable cause for these stops.
The cops do it nonetheless. They’re basically thugs themselves. If middle-class people were routinely stopped and searched every day like blacks in NYC are, there would be outrage.
A Terry stop says there has to be a threat of violence. There’s no threat of violence in the vast majority of these cases...there’s just some black guy walking down the street.
If you had to endure that nonsense everyday, you’d be pissed off about it, too.
Cops use Disorderly Conduct all the time to hassle people they don’t like.
I was circulating a petition to stop taxpayer-funded abortions in Oregon, and a friend of mine was doing the same. She was standing on a sidewalk with a sign advertising the petition. They told her to move off the sidewalk or they’d charge her with Disorderly Conduct, even though all she was doing was standing there with a sign.
Bloomie became a Republican only because there were less Pubbies running than Dems. He switched his party ID back to Independent a few years ago.
Unless the 'communal garbage shoot' is well known as a place to meet to buy/sell drugs, and it's the middle of the night, and the cops have it staked out.
...and therein lies the rub.
Yet... Eric Holder walks free.
Would it end up on an episode of COPS ?
Do you hang out at the garbage receptacle , in your pajamas, late at night?
Probably what Telly Hudgins said to the cops, although much more 'slang' was probably used.
“thefactor” hasn’t posted since he self-identified as a member of a large band of gleeful JBTs, handing out Disorderly Conducts like candy to everybody who pi$$es him off by refusing to grovel.
Or something like that. He didn’t deny it, so I applied the same level of scrutiny he (?) does on a daily basis.
You only have to give a cop the cooperation he compels you to give, as in stay seated, keep your hands out of your pocket.
But I don’t have to answer a single question if he wants to be a jerk.
Cop, “what are you doing out at this time of night?” After he makes sure I know he is king of the world and his crap don’t stink.
Me. Silence or smart ass answer, like, “walking, can’t you tell” as I open the glovebox for registration.
I don’t have to explain my purposes to intentions to him.
"Me and my big mouth."
1. It is considered good etiquette to ping a FReeper to a post in which you name him.
2. He and his colleagues ought not be surprised that when they treat an entire population as suspects, as potential enemies if you will, that population and other observers will begin to reciprocate.
3. All LEOs should remember— or be taught— that the powers of law, including the police power, are powers of government; that “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed”; that it is impossible for the People to “take the law into their own hands”, as it never left their hands in the first place; that just as we have by common consent delegated these powers to various police agencies, so we may at any time rescind that delegation; that should the prevailing trends continue, this becomes more likely; and should they at that time resist, it will not go well for them; and finally, as they keep lists of “persons of interest” whose liberty they wish to curtail, so are lists being made of those at all levels of government who are suspected of violating their Constitutional obligations and overstepping the authority we have granted them. Persons on these lists would do well, when the day comes, to depart peaceably and without protest, and take up gardening or other useful work. At such a time, offering violence to the people will be met with a great deal of unpleasantness.
I normally do, but today I opted not to. He wasn't polite to me or anybody else, so I made a conscious decision. But thanks for the reminder.
I didn't respond because, quite frankly, it's not worth it. It's not worth responding on any of the cop-bashing threads that pop up around here daily. Some are warranted, most are not. And I'm always the first one to say when a bad cop should be fired/jailed/etc...
But the fact is that you guys don't know what it's like to patrol a bad area. You don't deal with victims of violent crime. These criminals are animals. I wonder how often you deal with people like that. But you read a biased article and you're suddenly experts.
The guy who complains about being stopped under suspicion of committing a recent crime is the SAME guy who will be on camera asking where the police were when drug dealers were shooting up his neighborhood. This is a war that is literally un-win-able. We can only try to contain it.
The fact is that these stops, however inconvenient, are lawful. The Commissioner knows it. The Mayor knows it. The lawyers and judges know it. They also know the mayhem that will occur if stop and frisk is halted. Is the line between lawful and unlawful blurred sometimes? Probably. But cops who are fervently searching for an active shooter or armed robber are just doing what they are taught to do.
As for disorderly conduct summonses, read the law. It is so broad, and it was written that way for a reason. Blame the lawyers and judges, not the cops who utilize it as a tool to control volatile situations. Situations where you would probably pray for a cop if you were faced with.
You can call me whatever you want. I've heard it before, many times. It doesn't faze me because I know the real story. I serve my city and my country. And I sleep well at night.
Yep, I knew that, unfortunately he is not the only one who has done that. Reagan made it easy for a lot of Libs to change their part affiliation, sadly they didnt change their core belief. Remember Trent Lott?
Yup...yet another in a long line of dull-witted, simpering Pubbies that proved worthless.
"He and his colleagues ought not be surprised that when they treat an entire population as animals, that population and other observers will begin to reciprocate."
You don’t care because you can go out and kick some civilians to the curb to blow off steam.
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