Skip to comments.When Everything's Been Said
Posted on 07/03/2012 1:06:11 AM PDT by Cincinatus' WifeEdited on 07/03/2012 1:37:56 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Give that writer a prize.
How many ways are there to say that Palestinians and Israelis are talking past each other because they have profoundly different needs and goals? Israel seeks recognition as a legitimate, permanent part of the region with the "secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force" that are the promise of U.N. Resolution 242. Palestinians seek to reverse the establishment of Israel, which they believe was created on their land and at the expense of their patrimony. Whose writing will make Abu Mazen say Jews are the indigenous people of the region and State of Israel is their rightful home? Dennis Ross's latest "six point plan" for a "two state solution" won't do it.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Really doesn’t take that much effort to research what the MB was and is about. The label “Islamofascist” is thoroughly accurate, given their ideology and methods (Islamic national socialism and all).
The problem is really quite simple: choose a one-state or a two-state or a three-state solution or the status quo.
One state: Israel annexes Palestine and makes its residents citizens of Israel, free to vote and have the power of self-determination within their own country. Oops! That would make Israeli Jews a minority in their own country.
Two state solution: Israel annexes enough of Palestine to make the borders safe. Oops! There would have to be a travel corridor for free travel to and from Gaza to the rest of Palestine, cutting Israel in half.
Three state solution: Israel with safe borders and an independent Palestine and independent Gaza. Oops! The Palestinians don’t want to divide their political and economic power.
Status quo: The Palestinians waste away politically while they watch Israeli’s claim their land by constant new settlements on occupied foreign land - Palestine. Oops! Generation after generation of Palestinians and Israeli’s are raised in hate and fear while the rest of the world continues this fantasy that someday they will all get along.
“One state: Israel annexes Palestine and makes its residents citizens of Israel, free to vote and have the power of self-determination within their own country. Oops! That would make Israeli Jews a minority in their own country.”
Actually, it wouldn’t. Arabs are in no way, shape or form a majority of the population here. They were projected to become a majority one day, but those projections are not materializing. Furthermore, if Arabs are given the option of becoming citizens of Israel or refusing, as they already are in Jerusalem, many will refuse. Oops.
“Status quo: The Palestinians waste away politically while they watch Israelis claim their land by constant new settlements on occupied foreign land - Palestine. Oops!”
Hebron, where all three of my founding patriarchs and matriarchs are buried, and Shechem, where Joseph is buried, are not “their” land. That is not “foreign occupation,” especially considering the fact that Jews were living throughout Judah and Samaria and Ghaza with legal title to their farms and homes until the Arab uprising of 1933-36, in Hebron until 1929, and in Gush Etzion until 1948. Oops.
Generation after generation of Palestinians and Israelis are raised in hate and fear while the rest of the world continues this fantasy that someday they will all get along.”
The Arabs are being raised in hatred and contempt of Jews despite two decades of negotiations, which have solved nothing for anyone and only made matters worse. Every time “negotiations” are re-started or Israel makes some major concession, a Jew gets killed as a matter of course, and the world leaders always make the same pro-forma pronouncement, that this “senseless violence” will not stop the piece process. The violence makes sense. The negotiations are what’s idiotic. I miss “hatred and fear”. It’s preferable to hatred and contempt. Not oops. See my tagline for the solution.
Per Israel’s Census Bureau, 2009:
Israel is 17% Muslim (1,286,000/7,552,000). That’s up from five years earlier when it was 16% Muslim, 10 years earlier it was 15%, 15 years earlier it was 14%. Israel’s Muslim population is growing 6% - 7% faster than its Jewish population. That has been a steady trend for the last 25 years.
The West Bank is 83% Muslim (2,566,820/3,092,555) (includes 524,000 Israeli settlers).
If Israel annexes the West Bank the new demographic is 3,852,820 Muslims out of a total population of 10,644,555. The new Israel would be 36% Muslim.
Given the higher population expansion of the Muslims at the current 6 - 7%, the Muslims would be a majority of the citizens of Israel in 8-10 years.
Political power would shift over the following 5-10 years, you could easily see a Muslim Prime Minister of Israel in 20 years.
The Knesset is already 13% Muslim. Without annexing, Israel will be a majority Muslim in about 22 years.
Israel needs to face the future political reality of Jews self-choosing to have a slower population expansion as compared to Israeli Muslims.
Not impressed. 1% growth in population over five year intervals is not a trend. Even if it is, it’s easily reversed by immigration of Jews (on increase), increased fertility among Jews due to increased religiosity (happening), and decrease in Muslim fertility (also happening) and Muslim emigration, and the fact that this nominal increase might just be left-wingers cooking the books.
Annex Judah and Samaria, and if Muslims end up in the majority, so be it. There would at least be democratic institutions in place to manage the demographic changes and give an outlet to their aspirations. Maintain the status quo or consummate a two-state solution, and you remain with a pressure cooker that will blow.
But I for one do not believe those projections. If they (leftists and Arabs) were really so cock sure of their eventual demographic ascendance, why do they kill people for selling land to Joooos!? If we really had to worry so much about Arab demographic supremacy, why don’t we kill people for selling land to Arabs?
Demographic trends are not static. They change with the wind, although the thinking they engender changes much more slowly.
...The study also notes a decrease in Arab births in comparison to Jewish births in 2010. While 125,119 children were born into the expanded Jewish population in Israel in 2010, marking an increase of 31 percent, a total of 40,154 children were born in the Arab sector in 2010 versus 40,831 children born in 2000, a mere 1.7 percent decrease.
The study concludes with Faitelsons forecast for the future. He believes that the Jewish share of Israels population may decrease to its lowest point of 79.2 percent in 2015, but after that point it may begin to rise towards 82.2 percent of the total population of Israeli citizens in 2050.
The Arab population of Judea, Samaria, and the Gaza Strip will likely climb to 2,818,000 by 2030 and then begin to drop towards 2,500,000 in 2050, says Faitelson.
Finally, he says that the Arab percentage of all of Greater Israel’s population may reach 41 percent in 2010 and then gradually decline to 31.2 percent of the Israeli population by 2050.
OK, a 1% increase is in the percentage of members, not the growth rate.
If every 5 years 14 out of 100, then 15 out of 100, then 16 out of 100 are Muslim, that is actually a growth rate of 15/14 = 1.0714 - 1 = .0714 = 7.14% or 16/15 = 1.0667 - 1 = .0667 = 6.67%
Muslim population is becoming a bigger minority % and has been since 1979. It can be reversed, of course, by higher Jewish births, however, at the same time, the Muslim death rate is dropping quickly due to better health care.
There is no cooking the books, these are stats from Israel’s own Central Bureau of Statistics, your people at:
St.66, P.O.B 34525
Call them: 800-232-233
The numbers and the trending is obvious. I agree with you that politicians need to look forward and act on the brick wall that’s ahead.
Agreed it is a pressure cooker. I remember when there were only 6 Muslim members of the Knesset, now there are 16, I was even shocked when I checked.
My post was of stats from Israels own Central Bureau of Statistics. People that were actually counted.
The same trend of an increasing Muslim % is unmistakeable. Forecasting is best done by projections from historical data, not politically driven sociological guesswork from a particular year or two.
CBS stats are consistent for the last 25 years.
Look at what he does say, your post, 41% to 31.2% Arab population. Think of the political upheaval if Israel annexed the West Bank and made them citizens. The Knesset’s biggest bloc could be Muslim. A Muslim Prime Minister would be possible.
If Faitelson is wrong in his 40 year projection and Israels own Central Bureau of Statistics trend is correct, there would be a Muslim majority.
“If every 5 years 14 out of 100, then 15 out of 100, then 16 of 100 are Muslim, that is actually a growth rate of 15/14 = 1.0714 - 1 = .0714 = 7.14% or 16/15 = 1.0667 - 1 = .0667 = 6.67%”
Even accepting your figures, you are talking about 6.67% over five years, or one and change per cent per annum.
Problem with statistics on rates of increase is that they assume a constant rate. Mark Twain in Life on the Mississippi extrapolated that since every year the Mississipi’s length decreased, in a century or two it would only be three feet long. Global warming advocates do the same thing, and three decades ago, global cooling advocates did the same thing as well. Statistical rates fluctuate constantly, just like stock market and commodity quotes.
“It can be reversed, of course, by higher Jewish births, however, at the same time, the Muslim death rate is dropping quickly due to better health care.”
It IS being reversed by higher Jewish births. My niece now has four boys, and she’s only 30 with no intention of stopping. The rabbi downstairs from me has 10 children. Secularist Tel Aviv-ites are becoming increasingly religious. The Muslim death rate may be dropping, but an old Muslim codger is on the way out regardless; he’s only delaying the inevitable, and his lumbago will ruin his rock-throwing ability. A young Jewish child will be around to vote, serve in the army and work for decades to come. Your basis for the Muslim population increase reassures, rather than alarms me. Now I’m even more convinced that annexation is the way.
“There is no cooking the books, these are stats from Israels own Central Bureau of Statistics, your people...”
Like I said. Cooked books. Now anything with the imprimatur of the Israeli government is sacred gospel? There are entrenched bureaucrats there, who have been pushing an agenda for decades. I’ll bet they still accept the PA population statistics for Juda and Samaria as true.
Just as an example, try this for a different perspective: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125762#.T_VprI7uftI
The socialist establishment in Israel is heavily invested in the ‘let’s shrink Israel’ meme. The Negev will be next to be given up; a large area of sparse settlement difficult to defend.
Secular Jews in Israel and in America are droning, queering, aborting and intermarrying themselves out of existence, while religious Jews have children, lots of them.
Seculars don’t fear Muslim demographics, they fear JEWISH demographics, terrified their Western nation-state is becoming a land of Torah.
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