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The Dangerous Self-Delusion of Some Conservatives
markamerica.com ^ | June 30. 2012 | Mark America

Posted on 06/30/2012 10:23:54 AM PDT by EternalVigilance

In the wake of the Supreme Court ruling on the Affordable Care Act, I have noticed a curious phenomenon in which some conservative commentators seem to be so desperate to find a silver lining to the ruling that they have abandoned all logic. Consider George Will, who wrote a column in the aftermath of the ruling that actually puts forward the argument that we conservatives should take the fact that Roberts didn’t rely upon the commerce clause as evidence that there might be some constitutional limitation on the federal government after all. That would be a wonderful aspect of this ruling, if they had overturned the law! Instead, what we have is a monstrous precedent set in which the court re-writes a law in order to make it constitutional by imputing into the act a tax that had not existed in fact. This is an unmitigated disaster. I have heard a few who have noted hopefully that this ruling will energize the conservative base, and while that’s probably the case, I’m not certain I am so concerned about the political fall-out as I am about the long-run constitutional implications. You see, the political situation may permit us to repair the law, but it doesn’t permit us to immediately repair the damage done to the body of case law upon which future courts will rely as precedents in their own rulings.

The other thing I have read is the bizarre notion put forward by the National Review that what Roberts did was more conservative because he exercised judicial restraint in not striking down the law. Balderdash! Once you realize the legal contortions through which Roberts arrived at this ruling, it makes no sense whatever to claim he hadn’t acted as an activist. The convoluted logic by which he found a tax in a law that plainly states it does not contain one is an onerous breech of any notion of strict construction. I cannot conceive of any intellectually rigorous examination of this ruling by which this can be seen as a positive by anybody who is in favor of strict construction. When it came to the Anti-Injunction section of the ruling, it was held not to have been a tax, but just a few pages later, as Roberts performed mental gymnastics, he declared it was a tax after all.

On Thursday evening, Mark Levin summarized the matter better than anybody I’ve heard speak to this matter, in part because he understands the legalities in question, his Landmark Legal Foundation having been a participant in this case, but also because he knew Justice Roberts years ago when they both worked in the Reagan administration. Levin’s critique of the decision mirrors most of my own, and indeed, there was one aspect I hadn’t considered until Levin led me to it. That premise led me to yet another that I don’t believe Levin has yet realized in full. What one must understand is that this ruling is an unmitigated disaster, and no search for some alleged silver lining can repair it.

What Justice Roberts actually did was to expand the definition of what constitutes a permissible tax . Congress is permitted to levy only certain forms of tax, and this one doesn’t fit the definition of any of them. In dispensing with that issue, Roberts held that it didn’t matter, and that words don’t matter, and that plain-written legislative language doesn’t matter. He also ignored the context of the law, and the intent of Congress. One version of this bill had an actual tax, but Congress could not pass it in that form, so Congress altered it to contain no tax. What John Roberts did was to ignore the actual text of the legislation, and to say that the labels didn’t matter: If it looks like a tax, it is one. The problem with this is that it does nothing to restrain Congress from levying new taxes, and ignores the definitions of what sort of taxes Congress may enact. This is a wholesale extension of Congressional taxing authority because what Roberts ruled with respect to the particular form of the tax, insofar as the question of whether Congress had met the constitutional limits on whether it could impose it was effectively: “Close enough.”

That is offered to us as evidence of John Roberts’ alleged strict construction? Close enough? What this means, effectively, is that if Congress enacts some tax that it has questionable constitutional authority to levy, smiling John will be there to tell us it’s “close enough,” with every leftist monster on the court standing behind him to uphold it.

Ladies and gentlemen, there exists no silver lining to this ruling. All of the crackpot, delusional happy-talk from some conservatives in media is designed to make you feel better. You’ve just lost both arms and legs in a brutal assault, but they tell you, you should consider this a happy opportunity to enjoy the comforts of a new wheelchair and mouth-controlled joystick. You’ve just lost your family to a violent home-invasion, but, they tell you, you should view this as a chance to start over. The intention here is to keep you calm. The intention now is to serve a political end, while your country is dying around you. Your most sacred law, the US Constitution, has been crumpled and tossed into the ash-bin of history, and you are told you should do a happy-dance to the calming sounds of “Oh Happy Days.”

I’d like you to inventory the whole of the conservatives to whom you listen, or whose columns and opinions you read, and I want you to take care to note which of them are imploring you to consider some silver lining. They are lying. They have good intentions, many of them, and they have contorted themselves into a formless spaghetti of reasoning in order to find some good in this awful plate of refuse you’ve been handed. Don’t surrender your minds by sprinkling Parmesan on it and wolfing it down. Are there some limited political opportunities as a result of this decision? Yes, but they require the fulfillment of a whole laundry-list of “if-then” statements.

IF Mitt Romney is elected, and IF he doesn’t sell us out, and IF we hold the House, and IF we recapture the Senate(and at least 60 votes) and IF the moderates in either house don’t screw us, and IF Boehner and McConnell have the guts to do in repealing what the villains Reid and Pelosi did in passing the ACA, and IF they can deliver a bill to President Romney’s desk, and IF John Roberts and the other liberals on the court can be replaced, and IF Mitt Romney can replace them with actual strict constructionists, THEN you might have a chance to undo this damage. IF any of these don’t happen, your constitution is effectively dead as a restraint on government.

The danger of self-imposed delusions is that you come to believe them, like a pathological liar. It is by this form of self-delusion that we’ve permitted our country to lose its roots in reverence for the Constitution. We cannot defeat the statists by pretending this isn’t the disaster that it is, if we can defeat them at all. I believe some talking heads know this, but do not want to yield to what will come in the wake of such a monstrosity. They’re hanging on, stubbornly telling us that the stench of smoke reaching our nostrils is merely an air freshener of a novel scent. Rather than screaming “Fire,” and warning conservative Americans that the house is ablaze, the barn is wiped out, the surviving farm animals running loose in a frantic bid to stay ahead of the flames licking at their heels, many are now telling you that it’s all okay. It will be fine.


TOPICS: Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: abortion; deathpanels; obamacare; roberts; romneycare; socialism; zerocare
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To: EternalVigilance

Best article yet on this crap

I cannot believe how stupid some folks are here pretending this is not a disaster that portends failure far beyond just national healthcare

A conservative court is now outta reach .....when we thought it so close

My wife knew watching Roberts when nominated he had a soft underbelly


301 posted on 07/01/2012 12:44:01 AM PDT by wardaddy (John Roberts collection of Sally Quinn's panties just got a hefty contribution this week..)
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To: Resettozero
Perhaps something good will come out of this. You just never can know for sure.

Just get on this train there is a better life for you at the end, jobs food, happy times, right?

302 posted on 07/01/2012 12:46:23 AM PDT by itsahoot (That Coup d'├ętat we had in 08, It is now complete, with unlimited power.)
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To: rogue yam; SoConPubbie

SoConPubbie left off that your Master, Myth Romney, not only
supports the 911 VICTORY MOSQUE but sold the
very property to them through BAIN. How DNC/Romney is THAT?

You do, too, right?

SoConPubbie also left off that Romney covered up
the BIG DIG for contributions. How DNC/Romney is THAT?


303 posted on 07/01/2012 4:31:56 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: rogue yam; Jim Robinson; All
Do you really actually think that, aside from a very few newbie trolls, there are any freepers campaigning for Obama?

I mean really, how is that even logical? Do we see opposition to having Romney on the platform the same as being an active Obama fan? That is fallacy born and embraced out of desperation.

I would think that a reasoned person would see that neither man is preferred over the other by those here.

I know it sounds good for those who inside are conflicted with their support of Mitt to lash out irrationally at the rest of us who are still standing by conservative values in order to try and shame them into joining their numbers, misery loves company and all. But there will be many of us who will continue to make noise down to the wire. Many of us who do not even remotely share your faith in Romney's new found conservatism. Many who see the possibility of Romney, the father of Romneycare, with a Republican congress unwilling to go against a sitting Republican in the White House, to be problematic at best.

What will folks do when that dreaded day comes in November? What will they do when the inevitable choice is Obama and Romney? I do not know for sure but I can damn sure tell you there is not a single legitimate person on FreeRepublic that will pull the lever for Obama.

Accusing Freepers of doing such, of supporting such is stupid, foolish, desperate, ignorant and unbecoming of a conservative worthy of the term.

304 posted on 07/01/2012 5:29:08 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Jim Robinson
The is no eff in "silver lining" in D.C.

But if you want to look for reasons to keep fighting you can look at Wisconsin. You can look at Massachusetts where the anti-Ocare Republican is tied with the Democrat. You can look at New York City where an Republican actually won a Democrat congressional seat last summer.

And you want to quit.

305 posted on 07/01/2012 6:46:41 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Oh, the irony)
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To: rogue yam
I think he is something else altogether, and that he previously pretended to be somewhat liberal in order to get ahead, just as he is now pretending to be somewhat conservative in order to get ahead.

Well, now that's the kind of honesty I was talking about. As I understand what you're saying here, either:

(1) Romney hasn't yet developed any political philosophy, or

(2) Romney may have developed a political philosophy, but that he has by his chameleon-like conduct made it necessary for us to simply guess as to the ingredients of that philosophy.

And, that's why you think he deserves more enthusiastic support from conservatives.

306 posted on 07/01/2012 6:49:40 AM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: Tau Food
I think what he's saying is that Obama must be fired even if it means replacing him with a political hack who might be equally bad.

Note "might be" is better than "is".

But even if Romney "is" as bad as Obama -- which btw is something I don't think is possible -- we should still vote for him because Obama must be fired.

We are not picking a president this election. We are firing one. It's that simple.

307 posted on 07/01/2012 7:13:57 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Oh, the irony)
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To: rogue yam; Jim Robinson

“Jim, I have never seen anyone on FR describe Romney as being either more conservative than Reagan, equally as conservative as Reagan, or anything like a saint...
Are you sure that you’re not letting your intense antipathy toward Romney color your reading of posts by those who prefer that he defeat Obama in November?”

Your are wrong Rogue Yam. I have seen much posted by the ABO crowd saying “Romney is OK and conservative” by the ABO crowd that goes beyond merely saying “Anyone But Obama.” They are attempting to reinvent Romney into a Ronald Reagan. Jim Robinson has got this right. Romney is not, nor has ever been a conservative.


308 posted on 07/01/2012 8:15:53 AM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Tribune7; rogue yam
I think I follow that. I understand you to be acknowledging that Romney may be bad for conservativism and maybe even as bad as Obama for conservatism, but that it would be impossible for Romney to be worse for conservatism.

It is that last part that folks like me don't concede. I think Romney could easily be worse for conservatism and worse for our country than four more years of Obama. If Obama is elected, I think we face four years of gridlock because all Republicans in the Congress will resist his proposals. If Romney is elected and is actually a conservative or decides to pretend to be conservative (as rogue yam might put it), then we will probably have gridlock because of Democrat resistance in the Senate. However, if Romney is elected and he is a liberal or decides to pretend to be liberal, then he can count on RINO's and Democrats to enact any liberal proposals he might want to enact. He will be able to accomplish what Obama cannot.

For that reason, it is vital to a conservative voter to know now exactly what we can expect from a President Romney. And, speaking for myself only, when I view the videos linked in posts 169 and 172 above, I conclude that Romney probably is a liberal and that, at best, it is utterly impossible for me to know whether he is actually a liberal, a moderate, a conservative, or just a manipulative sociopath with no philosophy.

In addition, I believe that the only way to get the GOP to nominate a reliably conservative candidate is to make folks like Karl Rove understand that the GOP cannot count on conservative support without a conservative candidate. If Romney gets pounded in November, maybe that message will be a bit more clear to GOP leaders.

309 posted on 07/01/2012 8:21:37 AM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: rogue yam
You claim that I am "pimping for Romney on this forum" yet you admit that you've not yet seen me "voice support for anything he's ever done in politics".

You're going to have to explain that one yourself, pal.

I'd normally express a measure of surprise at such a thick-headed statement as that, but I know you're really not that stupid. No, you're merely skilled at dodging the obvious, and skirting the simple logic of plain spoken questions and statements from others.

I'm sure you admire yourself for ducking straightforward questions and for returning fire with what you believe to be marvelous wit, but I assure you, you're one of the few around here who does. In actuality, you've cemented your reputation as a duplicitous shill for a documented fraud who shares nothing in common with conservatives and patriots.

You're no different than those Democrats who shilled for Barack Obama in 2008. They couldn't point to any substantive reasons to support their man either, but that didn't stop them from promoting him with a fervor bordering on the religious.

Actually, you're even worse. At least liberals and Dems could claim that Obama shared their ideological values and core agreements. You can't claim anything of the sort about Romney - yet you shill along anyway.

And so we come again to the meat of it. Tell us what it is you like about Romney. Tell us about some of his career accomplishments, and why you support them. Throw your best pitch and close the sale.

310 posted on 07/01/2012 8:23:32 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Tribune7; Jim Robinson; All

“We are not picking a president this election. We are firing one. It’s that simple.”

You are the ONLY ABO I have seen that clearly articulates their position. Although I see will not vote for Romney nor do I think what you are doing is wise. I cannot condemn/berate you for your choice because I understand where you are coming from, and you are not self deluding yourself. You are voting for Romney knowing he is screwed up...and you don’t pretend otherwise. Your disdain for and fear of Obama outweighs your knowledge that Romney is not an answer. You just want Obama fired - I can respect that and don’t find it offensive. However, please don’t denigrate those of us, who out of principle and values we won’t violate, cannot ever vote for Romney. That is where I get upset with the ABO crowd - berating persons of conservative principle that won’t be swayed by fear of Obama to make an equally bad choice in Romney.


311 posted on 07/01/2012 8:29:31 AM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: rogue yam
I do not believe that Mitt Romney is a left-wing, Progressive Liberal.

I believe that anybody who thinks that mitt is not a left-wing progressive liberal is, them self, a liberal.

A pig covered in sh*t doesn't think other pigs covered in sh*t stink. mitt and barracky are sh*t covered pigs. It's why they support so many of the same things. And it's why their followers support them.

312 posted on 07/01/2012 8:29:54 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode over evil. Voting for mitt or obie is like throwing your country away.)
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To: rogue yam
My position is that we still have the option of doing this today, and that we are far better organized for it now given the rise of the tea party movement and the development of the conservative blogosphere and twitterverse.

Yet you insist that we abandon any and all conservative principles at the bottom of the ninth, and throw all that prodigious effort toward electing a stealth Democrat.

It makes no sense. If we have that sort of power, then we ought to be ripping control of the process from the degraded and morally compromised tools who run the Republican party, and forcing the nomination of a better standard bearer to challenge Obama.

My whole pro-GOP argument all along for this election is that we promote conservatives in the primaries, then get Republicans into office on November 6th, and then work to build conservative consciousness within the GOP caucus once we have control of Congress and the White House.

If you fight to elect liberals and squish moderates, that's what the GOP will continue to give you. We've been doing it your way for over half a century, and it's done nothing but encourage and sanction the Republican party's leftward evolution.

The liberal Democrats at least stay true to their convictions. You won't find them operating under the same flawed logic as we do. Where do you ever see them compromising their principles to vote for center-right Democrat candidates? You don't. They'd rather lose by a landslide than back up a single inch on their ideological beliefs, and they demand candidates who are unbending in their allegiance to their shared ideals.

But on our side, we're told that we have to compromise to 'win'. If you continue to promote or agree with that computation, eventually you wind up voting for the other side's agenda. Whether you realize it or not - and that is exactly what is happening in this race.

The reason you're seeing so much push back against Romney on this forum, is because he's such a blatant example of the compromise I speak of. If he were simply a reliable Republican, it would be much easier to sell him to conservatives. It would be easier for him to obscure his real agenda, and gain our trust. He can't though, because his record is so clearly liberal.

Conservatives need to do more than simply hold their noses to vote for him, they need heavy drugs and electroshock therapy to blind themselves to what he truly is.

313 posted on 07/01/2012 8:41:15 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: ThermoNuclearWarrior
Your http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2901363/posts?page=261#261 is about the most well thought out post I've seen on the matter.

If I may, I would like to contribute to your thoughts on, "States should work together, bypassing the federal government, while coming up with plans to confront the federal government by refusing their unconstitutional authority."

Our founders in their foresight and genius created in the Constitution, a number of safeguards against a tyrannical central government seizing total control. Prominent among these safeguards is the ability of often ignored States governments to call a Constitutional Convention.

NOW is the time for just such an action, while we still have a proper majority of "Red States", to repeal the sixteenth Amendment which gives the Federal beast its great power over the individual and ultimately the States through redistribution of tax collections.

Repealing the sixteenth, as was prohibition, is the easiest and least bloody option available to us in putting the Federal beast back in its cage.

314 posted on 07/01/2012 8:47:09 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Sola Veritas
I don't like Mitt.

I do think I still feel some frustration from the attacks on my guy Perry which I think were unfair and who I think had best chance of beating Romney in the final stretch.

If you can't vote for Mitt you can't vote for Mitt and I can respect that.

OTOH, those of us who want Obama fired are going to have support Mitt and say nice things about him even if it means keeping our fingers crossed -- and by that I don't mean that we are lying, I mean that we are hoping that what we are saying (overturning Ocare, appointing sane judges etc) turns out to be true. I hope you can respect that.

I'm also concerned about too much Mitt bashing discouraging turnout for the down-ticket races. That is something we really can't afford.

As conservatives we really have to start thinking two or three moves ahead. The left is very good at this. We, OTOH, have a habit of reacting emotionally to matters that had been in the works for years or decades and losing in frustration.

315 posted on 07/01/2012 9:04:14 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Oh, the irony)
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To: ejonesie22
Do you really actually think that, aside from a very few newbie trolls, there are any freepers campaigning for Obama?

I mean really, how is that even logical? Do we see opposition to having Romney on the platform the same as being an active Obama fan? That is fallacy born and embraced out of desperation.

I would think that a reasoned person would see that neither man is preferred over the other by those here.

You are campaigning for Obama with this very post.

Others are campaigning for Obama within the last 15 posts of this thread, and further upthread as well.

Your denial is part of it, and as I've explained directly numerous times, the lying and irrationality are the only things I have ever objected to.

If you all would admit you want Obama re-elected and explain why in honest rational terms, I would just rebut your arguments and be done. But instead we have had months of repetitive, false, histrionic, and abusive spewage directed at Romney and at any who prefer that he win in November rather than Obama.

None of this is conservative, all of it is a disgrace, and it is exactly what you all are doing.

Again, the denials are just part of the lying tactics to support Obama's re-election.

316 posted on 07/01/2012 9:04:53 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: Tau Food
I think Romney could easily be worse for conservatism and worse for our country than four more years of Obama.

I couldn't disagree more, but you do make a very important point about complacency and becoming emotionally invested in Romney and endorsing him as a conservative.

The beauty of creating a philosophy about firing presidents means that, hey, in four years it can be dusted off again.

I'm very much afraid of the message that would be sent if we don't fire 0.

317 posted on 07/01/2012 9:18:35 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Oh, the irony)
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To: Tribune7
OTOH, those of us who want Obama fired are going to have support Mitt and say nice things about him even if it means keeping our fingers crossed -- and by that I don't mean that we are lying, I mean that we are hoping that what we are saying (overturning Ocare, appointing sane judges etc) turns out to be true. I hope you can respect that.

I'm also concerned about too much Mitt bashing discouraging turnout for the down-ticket races. That is something we really can't afford.

This close to the election, a sane, smart, conservative web forum should be an optimistic, energized, cohesive beehive of grassroots political activity supporting GOP candidates up and down the ballot.

This is what FR has always been in previous elections since its founding.

But not this year.

And this is by deliberate decision. A small but committed and influential group of Mitt haters have decided that America will be best served by Obama's re-election.

In pursuing this agenda (which the overwhelming majority of conservatives nationwide find abhorrent) the FR He-Man Mitt Haters Club has succeeded in taking America's premier conservative news discussion forum right out of the game.

The DUmmies and the Obama campaign are laughing at us right now over this, as well they should be.

318 posted on 07/01/2012 9:19:10 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam

And still, you’re supporting a pro-choice democrat socialist on America’s premiere conservative forum.

And spewing out the grossest sort of insults at principled conservatives day after day after day.

Somehow I doubt you’ll even be here a month from now.


319 posted on 07/01/2012 9:23:29 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (A Choice, not an Etch-A-Sketch. TomHoefling.com)
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To: rogue yam

And still, you’re supporting a pro-choice democrat socialist on America’s premiere conservative forum.

And spewing out the grossest sort of insults at principled conservatives day after day after day.

Somehow I doubt you’ll even be here a month from now.


320 posted on 07/01/2012 9:24:26 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (A Choice, not an Etch-A-Sketch. TomHoefling.com)
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To: rogue yam
A small but committed and influential group of Mitt haters have decided that America will be best served by Obama's re-election.

Another damned lie.

You have no shame. The perfect little Romney Republican.

321 posted on 07/01/2012 9:27:00 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (A Choice, not an Etch-A-Sketch. TomHoefling.com)
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To: rogue yam
This is what FR has always been in previous elections since its founding. But not this year.

That's because the GOP has compromised to the point that NOW its current presidential canidate is anything BUT a conservative.

The DUmmies and the Obama campaign are laughing at us right now over this, as well they should be.

Finally you're right about something! They've succeeded in getting some here that call themselves "conservative" to defend a candidate that supports their progressive agenda!

322 posted on 07/01/2012 9:33:27 AM PDT by Errant
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To: rogue yam
This is what FR has always been in previous elections since its founding. But not this year.

I'll say this much for Mitt -- he's a bastard. He coldly eliminated every one of his competitors all without getting his hands bloody.

OK Mitt, you won.

So what what those of us who don't like Mitt should do is to be as supportive as we can to the true believers -- and yes there are conservatives who really like Mitt, I go to church with them, I go to Tea Party meetings with them -- and join them in firing 0, all the while doing our best to get the most conservative people elected down-ticket, and making sure that a President Romney would know he owes us.

What we can't do is get down, get negative and quit.

323 posted on 07/01/2012 9:38:39 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Oh, the irony)
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To: EternalVigilance
You know, a good politician knows that every critic is a potential convert, and even when abused answers respectfully and without accusation.

Just sayin'

324 posted on 07/01/2012 9:44:11 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Fire Obama)
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To: ejonesie22; Jim Robinson
What will folks do when that dreaded day comes in November? What will they do when the inevitable choice is Obama and Romney? I do not know for sure but I can damn sure tell you there is not a single legitimate person on FreeRepublic that will pull the lever for Obama.
Accusing Freepers of doing such, of supporting such is stupid, foolish, desperate, ignorant and unbecoming of a conservative worthy of the term.

Bears repeating...often.

My question is why are the accusatory posts against conservatives allowed to stand? If those of us so accused hit "abuse" are WE in danger of a time out?

325 posted on 07/01/2012 9:52:16 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Until the 52K LDS missionaries claiming Christian faith is bogus quit, I will post LDS truth.)
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To: Tribune7

I’m not a politician.

And I’m sick of the slanderous lies being spewed by these people at the only group of folks that represent any hope for this country: principled conservatives.


326 posted on 07/01/2012 9:54:26 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (A Choice, not an Etch-A-Sketch. TomHoefling.com)
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To: Tribune7
What we can't do is get down, get negative and quit.

These days Free Republic is all about quitting.

That is a readily observed fact.

327 posted on 07/01/2012 10:03:14 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: EternalVigilance
OK EV, you are not a politician. You are just a guy trying to be president unconcerned about convincing someone who probably agrees with you on 90 percent of the issues that you are the one for the job.
328 posted on 07/01/2012 10:03:24 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Fire Obama)
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To: Tribune7

Nah. Folks like that aren’t going to be convinced of anything.


329 posted on 07/01/2012 10:05:12 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (A Choice, not an Etch-A-Sketch. TomHoefling.com)
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To: ejonesie22
I do not know for sure but I can damn sure tell you there is not a single legitimate person on FreeRepublic that will pull the lever for Obama.

No one on earth is so stupid as to think that this is the only way to support Obama's re-election.

No one.

330 posted on 07/01/2012 10:06:15 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: EternalVigilance
Nah. Folks like that aren’t going to be convinced of anything.

If you believe that they won't.

331 posted on 07/01/2012 10:11:04 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Fire Obama)
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To: Tribune7

All I have to go on is experience.


332 posted on 07/01/2012 10:15:16 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (A Choice, not an Etch-A-Sketch. TomHoefling.com)
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To: GlockThe Vote
JR - the worst part is that even if ObamaCare is repealed - the legal precedent is still there that the taxing power can be used to coerce social behavior and manadatory purchases of good and services from private companies as dicatated by the Govt under force of law.

What Roberts did yesterday was “FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORM’ the USA as we knew it.

Many people have no idea the disaster Roberts unleashed.

I thought the same thing. It sickens me that many Conservatives are trying to find a silver lining in what this Marxist, collectivist, socialist, statist, POS Roberts did. How can you sleep at night now Roberts you villain, you just helped enslave Americans, and ruin freedom in America and so the world, you freakin idiot.

333 posted on 07/01/2012 10:19:05 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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To: Kazan

“Republicans would never allow Obama to pass any of that”

Obama just passed the Dream Act Amnesty for illegals. It perpetrated this unlawful, unconstitutional act against the will of congress and against the will and interests of the American people. Congress rejected the Dream Act and every Amnesty for 20 years. Yet Obama just passes it by decree. And you think it won’t do this when it has “more flexibility” in its 2nd term? Would Romney have done this executive order to give illegals Amnesty?


334 posted on 07/01/2012 10:31:26 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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To: rogue yam
You make my argument for me. You use the same non sequitur that others have used, “if you do not support Romney you are supporting Obama by default”. That is fallacy, and sadly desperate...

There are indeed ways to support Obama, not being all in for Romney is not one of them.

But keep thinking it, the GOP is counting on that.

335 posted on 07/01/2012 10:34:37 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: rogue yam

So you are accusing me of campaigning for Obama.

Fallacy at best, a damned lie in fact and reality.

If non sequitur is all you have to go on as a “conservative” it explains much of why we are at this point in History.

Now if you can point out any lie I have told, about Romney or otherwise then perhaps you could make your point. If you can exhibit any specific point where I have said I absolutely want Obama to gain reelection I will concede and you can go over to your buddies at True Blue Whiners and crow to your hearts content.

I’ll save you the trouble, it is not there.


336 posted on 07/01/2012 10:42:15 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: rogue yam
I do have one other question for you rouge. It is safe to assume that as things stand now I will have to vote Mitt, despite my very strong feelings.

So say mid 2015 or 2016 as the Republican (I hope) congress with the help of a very happy group of Dems votes in national Romneycare that is almost identical to the Obamacare they repealed in 2013 but couched in different terms, are you and yours who accused us of “supporting” Obama, of “lying” about Mitt going to come and apologize, are just sit back stunned in silence as many of us say “told you so”...

(Feel free to add any number of liberal wet dreams to that list as well...)

337 posted on 07/01/2012 10:50:09 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: rogue yam; jimrob; EternalVigilance; Kazan; GailA; RitaOK; Norm Lenhart; Tau Food; Windflier; ...
Rogue Yam:

What you have not done is to address the film posted at #169 by JimRob showing Romney's unbroken track record of political heresies on the babies, guns, Ronaldus Maximus, global BS "warming," desire to tell our enemies in WAR when we are leaving so that they can wait to slaughter our allies without further interference, TARP, Porkulus, etc., etc., etc.

AND THEN, you have the unmitigated gall to make believe that the only actual issue in 2012 is your Captain Ahab imitation chasing Obozo in his role as the Great Whale. Remember what happened to Ahab.

AND THEN, for the piece de resistance of the heresies you share with Myth Romney and his brainless, spineless ABO love slaves, you come on here and accuse JimRob (on his own web site no less) of being a secret Obozo supporter AND of refusing to address your ABO obsession, which he certainly did in the primaries and ever since. See JR's #169 and #227 and #230.

AND FINALLY, you play make believe that the Tea Party exists to join YOU and others like you in the great Whale hunt.

BTW, when you have to engage in self-praise as though you were "as smart and well-informed and realistic as just about anyone on this forum," etc., it really gets pathetic. ANYONE who whines about his/her opinion being as good as anyone else's is inevitably wrong and it is an embarrassing excuse for an argument. Your chosen position stands or falls on its own and not upon your obviously inflated self-praise or hallucinations of competence.

Anyone not in an advanced state of despair but also an advanced state of rage over a "choice" between Obozo the Original and Obozo in whiteface has NO BUSINESS calling him/herself "conservative," "pro-life," "pro-family," "pro-military," "pro-fiscal responsibility," "pro-gun rights," or "pro-American."

If you are soooooo disappointed with this website, then don't let the door hit you in the backside as you flee in terror to DU or HP where you belong.

What is REALLY "telling" is your utter inability or refusal to oppose BOTH major party POS candidates who are BOTH enemies of the USA, Western Civilization, the Judaeo-Christian ethic and anything and everything worth supporting. Apparently, Myth Romney's apparent trustworthiness to protect Muffy's trust fund uber alles is enough for you.

If your POS wins, you should consider vacating FR immediately because you will be deemed responsible for his each and every heresy in office. Lay in an infinite supply of asbestos undies, FRiend, because you will need them. Pass the advice to your fellow Mythbots.

I had thought LSD had long since gone out of style and then I read your #216.

338 posted on 07/01/2012 10:55:57 AM PDT by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey! Tom Hoefling for POTUS! Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: BlackElk; All

Time after time lately RY or some other ABO gets on a thread and makes every excuse under the sun to support their abandonment of conservative ideals.

Because that is what ABO represents whether it’s Rogue Yam, Mark Levin or Sarah Palin. Period.

To embrace a Romney presidency in ANY capacity is to admit 2 things. 1: Conservatism does not work, and 2: You practice situational ethics just like any other garden variety Democrat.

So just freaking admit it ABOers. Stop rehashing your copied Democrat talking points and admit what you are. A person willing to set aside what you claim to believe in as a matter of expidency. Because under no logical, historical, demonstratable or dictionary definition of ‘holding to what you believe in” can a conservative vote for a man with the record of Mitt Romney.

Unless you believe in Mitt Romney.

Further, having abandoned your beliefs in a misguided effort to support Mitt Romney, you cannot be considered by any rational person with integrity, to be trustworthy in any other political situation. Because your situational ethics may again rear it’s head in some other cause conservatives believe in.

You are what your actions are and there’s no getting around that.


339 posted on 07/01/2012 11:20:47 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Tribune7

Quit? We have not yet begun to fight!

But I’m sure as hell not going to vote for a big government abortionist/statist either.

We don’t retreat!!

We reload!!


340 posted on 07/01/2012 11:40:06 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Tribune7
I couldn't disagree more,

And, that's okay, because we at least understand one another.

If Romney keeps moving to the left in preparation for November, there may come a time when you'll be looking for another candidate. And, maybe, if Romney renounces and sincerely apologizes for Romneycare, and commits himself publicly to getting the federal government completely out of all health care, there may come a time when I can give him a second look.

Anything's possible, I guess, but I think that in his heart, Romney's a liberal.

341 posted on 07/01/2012 11:46:10 AM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: rogue yam
My mission is to seek and spread the truth and to battle falsehood.

You must have a pretty sweet superhero costume.

342 posted on 07/01/2012 11:55:32 AM PDT by Junior_G (Funny how liberals' love affair with Muslims began on 9/11)
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To: Windflier; Jim Robinson; ejonesie22; Graybeard58; svcw
The reason you're seeing so much push back against Romney on this forum, is because he's such a blatant example of the compromise I speak of.

I agree BUT...another reason is the nasty bullying by MIttBots against Jim Robinson and every other FReeper who doesn't kiss Mitt's "Choose the Right" mormon symbol ring.

These bullies are the best advertisement for thinking that "if this an example of Romney voters, I want no part of him!"

343 posted on 07/01/2012 11:58:39 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Until the 52K LDS missionaries claiming Christian faith is bogus quit, I will post LDS truth.)
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To: Cap Huff
Unfortunately, we have a lot of Wisconsin crying men (WCM’s) on the conservative side. It would not surprise me to find that some who mocked the guy a few weeks ago are now saying the exact same thing from the opposite side.

By equating the two, it sounds like you don't see a substantive difference between what happened in Wisconsin and what happened in the Supreme Court ruling.

344 posted on 07/01/2012 12:01:46 PM PDT by Junior_G (Funny how liberals' love affair with Muslims began on 9/11)
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To: Junior_G; rogue yam

“You must have a pretty sweet superhero costume. “

It’s a team uniform. Kinda like the Avengers. Except the group is called “The John Roberts Conservatives”.

They will be there to defend your honor, safety and bring justice to everyone! Except when it’s not expedient for them to do so.


345 posted on 07/01/2012 12:01:46 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Jim Robinson

346 posted on 07/01/2012 12:03:42 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (A Choice, not an Etch-A-Sketch. TomHoefling.com)
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To: Tau Food
If Romney keeps moving to the left in preparation for November, there may come a time when you'll be looking for another candidate.

In what way, specifically, has Romney moved to the left since beginning his 2012 campaign?

347 posted on 07/01/2012 12:06:59 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: Junior_G
You must have a pretty sweet superhero costume.

You must have nothing intelligent to say.

348 posted on 07/01/2012 12:08:35 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam

Any person claiming to be a conservative and campaigning for a person with Mitt Romney’s voting record and history of liberal actions questioning the intelligence of ANYONE is the height of the absurd.


349 posted on 07/01/2012 12:13:51 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: rogue yam
You must have nothing intelligent to say.

I don't claim to be more intelligent than anyone else. I was merely making a comment on your hilariously inflated sense of self-importance. Carry on, Crusader for Truth.

350 posted on 07/01/2012 12:22:50 PM PDT by Junior_G (Funny how liberals' love affair with Muslims began on 9/11)
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