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Reports: Turkish warplane shot down by Syria
MSNBC ^ | June 22, 2012

Posted on 06/22/2012 8:19:50 AM PDT by cunning_fish

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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten

Trouble is, aren’t Syria, Russia, and Iran having the biggest war games ever this week? If so, things like this can happen, and sometimes wars start.

Not that I’m a war monger (though I’ve been accused of it before). I’m just curiouser and curiouser to figure out what Ivan’s game is.


51 posted on 06/22/2012 12:13:19 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: PT57A

And yet America elected Obama during good times! What if we had famine?


52 posted on 06/22/2012 12:14:27 PM PDT by donna (Mitt quote: ...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way...)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad

Still looking around out here for information and want to thank you for keeping me updated.


53 posted on 06/22/2012 12:27:23 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: ichabod1

There were some reports of this earlier in the week but I personally regard them as unconfirmed. Not saying that they’re not happening, just that I’m not sure. In those initial reports the chicoms were said to be playing as well.

Best as I can tell this is sunni vs. shiite with ivan and iran ligning up on the shiite side while Europe and the US has thrown in with the sunnis.

Not sure there are any good guys here.


54 posted on 06/22/2012 12:28:13 PM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: AnAmericanAbroad; All
This is prominent and latest information could find ... backup to AnAmericanAbroad's information ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18554246
55 posted on 06/22/2012 12:36:04 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad

This maybe is one of the references having been mentioned prior in your post ... http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/syria-apologizes-for-taking-down-turkish-warplane-turkish-pm.aspx?pageID=238&nID=23802&NewsCatID=341


56 posted on 06/22/2012 12:48:50 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
There were some reports of this earlier in the week but I personally regard them as unconfirmed. Not saying that they’re not happening, just that I’m not sure.

I personally regard the "giant Russian/Chinese/Syrian/Iranian" exercise reports as utterly false garbage, not just "unconfirmed."

The "report" (any other "reports" were just regurgitating the original nonsense) were from an previously-proven completely unreliable source (a semi-official Iranian news agency), described things that were pretty much operationally impossible, used terminology indicating a lack of knowledge of military matters, and of course they have all been denied by all governments mentioned.

The only reason people gave them credence was that 1) If it was true, it was exciting and scary and 2) it allowed people to indulge whatever their favorite End Times fantasy was.

57 posted on 06/22/2012 1:03:55 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: cunning_fish
Lots to keep up with out there ... Global Security Newswire Listings of this day ... http://www.nti.org/gsn/
58 posted on 06/22/2012 1:09:59 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: ichabod1

I hear ya; I’m trying to find a useful outcome..... got one?


59 posted on 06/22/2012 1:25:22 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Nobody died at Watergate. Who were Brian Terry and Jamie Zapata? (Post this on Facebook, everyone!))
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks cunning_fish.

Russian client dictatorship in Syria shoots down plane of a Russian enemy.


60 posted on 06/22/2012 2:54:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Operation Northwoods


61 posted on 06/22/2012 3:14:12 PM PDT by mulder1 ("The past is prologue.")
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To: Strategerist

Thanks - my BS detector had gone off for many of the reasons you cite but I wasn’t completely sure.


62 posted on 06/22/2012 3:44:21 PM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten

okay, probable BS or false flag. Confirmed!?!?


63 posted on 06/22/2012 4:57:42 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: cunning_fish
It's been reported that this was an RF-4E recce bird. (About 40 ex US and FRG delivered to Turkey)


64 posted on 06/22/2012 4:59:27 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools - Solon, Lawmaker of Athens)
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To: MindBender26

Ignorant people make better consumers.. It doesn’t matter what they think.


65 posted on 06/22/2012 5:50:52 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: ichabod1
If the Turkmen go banzai with Syria they may find they’ve done nothing but poke a stick at a big, surly Russian bear that is spoiling for a fight.

If Turkiye decides to "go banzai" with Syria, it will be an asswhooping that hasn't been seen since Gallipoli....and is that is why "surly Russian bear" has made a show of moving men and material into Syria. The Syrians have been supporting PKK for decades. If Syria is smart they will back down quickly.....if not.......

66 posted on 06/22/2012 6:12:11 PM PDT by ScreamingFist (Quiet the Idiot)
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To: Pollster1; cunning_fish
>> You are exactly correct. Syria is outside the territory specified in the NATO treaty; this does not justify using NATO forces.

Although you may technically be correct - the weapon in this instance hadn't been fired at NATO member territory - there had been instances in which other weapons had been from Syria at individuals in Turkey.

Also, you quoted the original articles where you should have looked at the Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on the Accession of Greece and Turkey ttp://tinyurl.com/7vr6auf

Article 1

Upon the entry into force of this Protocol, the Government of the United States of America shall, on behalf of all the Parties, communicate to the Government of the Kingdom of Greece and the Government of the Republic of Turkey an invitation to accede to the North Atlantic Treaty, as it may be modified by Article 2 of the present Protocol. Thereafter the Kingdom of Greece and the Republic of Turkey shall each become a Party on the date when it deposits its instruments of accession with the Government of the United States of America in accordance with Article 10 of the Treaty.

Article 2

If the Republic of Turkey becomes a Party to the North Atlantic Treaty, Article 6 of the Treaty shall, as from the date of the deposit by the Government of the Republic of Turkey of its instruments of accession with the Government of the United States of America, be modified to read as follows:

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
1.
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France, on the territory of Turkey or on the islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;

2.
on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in whicH occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.

OK Partner?

67 posted on 06/22/2012 6:42:30 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: a_Turk

It is questionable and contraversial if you are to make it work this way. First, it is huge to claim this jet as a part of occupation forces and second it is stupid to think of the rest of NATO to back Turkey if such a claim to appear with Russia and China on the other side. Claiming it Turkey is risking to get condemned as an agressor inserting ocupation force for an agressive war.


68 posted on 06/22/2012 7:00:10 PM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: cunning_fish

These things take time and patience. First and foremost intellects on this forum should, if they’re going to rummage through alliance agreements, get their documents straight. Anyway, it’s your leadership who’s manipulating the world here. I have the honor of being led by your stooge.


69 posted on 06/22/2012 7:13:06 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: a_Turk

Are you here or there (in Turkey)?


70 posted on 06/22/2012 8:18:21 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: no-to-illegals

Both... Neither... Why?


71 posted on 06/22/2012 8:44:05 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: a_Turk
Would like to ask two question, if I may (that being the first in prior post. Could you share information (if in Turkey) regarding the current mindset of the public, in Turkey, regarding today's incident, and if not in Turkey, has information been gleamed (by yourself) which would indicate the mindset of the public in Turkey regarding today's incident? The reason am asking is saw a post today where the poster was stating no apology is acceptable from Syria and this act should carry a declaration of war from Turkey toward Syria. The poster appeared (do not know to be correct) to be in Turkey.
72 posted on 06/22/2012 8:52:57 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: a_Turk

Am sending a link (not the link mention in my post or comment mentioned). Comment #20 may be of interest ... http://www.topix.com/forum/world/turkey/TMNFQLBUFMA7G49VA


73 posted on 06/22/2012 9:18:30 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: no-to-illegals

Turkey is slowly degrading into an Islamist state the way Iran did in 1970s. Where are Kemalists in military? Most of them are purged during a last few years. There are growing presence of Qurans in public places, anti-Western rhetorics etc. I know some Westernized Turkish people and talked to them, they find their domestic situation scary.


74 posted on 06/22/2012 9:31:43 PM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: jbwbubba

T.E Lawrence threw the Turks out for a reason.


75 posted on 06/23/2012 2:40:49 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood ("Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???")
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To: MindBender26

T.E. Lawrence threw the Turks out for a reason.


76 posted on 06/23/2012 2:42:38 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood ("Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???")
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To: a_Turk

77 posted on 06/23/2012 2:53:11 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood ("Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???")
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To: SunkenCiv

78 posted on 06/23/2012 2:56:06 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood ("Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???")
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To: a_Turk
OK Partner?

You're absolutely right; thank you for the correction. Still, I don't think it changes the conclusion. Assuming the airplane was over Syria when shot down, the same conclusion applies.

79 posted on 06/23/2012 6:01:27 AM PDT by Pollster1 (A boy becomes a man when a man is needed - John Steinbeck)
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To: cunning_fish

AM update (players at the chess board imho) ... http://news.yahoo.com/syria-shoots-down-turkish-jet-claims-rebel-massacre-031941481.html


80 posted on 06/23/2012 6:01:46 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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Warning on this vid ... Early within first minute (not for children) ... Stairway To Heaven ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBPVlTibs0o&feature=related
81 posted on 06/23/2012 6:53:05 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: no-to-illegals
AM update (players at the chess board imho) ...

Thanks for the update n-t-i. As I stated on other threads, let's hope the Syrians back down quickly. Turkiye is the big dog and I fear what could happen if they cut loose..

"The Turkish Armed Forces is the second largest standing armed force in NATO, after the U.S. Armed Forces, with a combined strength of just over a million uniformed personnel serving in its five branches.[63] Since 2003, Turkey contributes military personnel to Eurocorps and takes part in the EU Battlegroups.[64] Turkey is also considered to be the strongest military power of the Middle East region besides Israel.[14]

Every fit male Turkish citizen otherwise not barred is required to serve in the military for a period ranging from three weeks to fifteen months, dependent on education and job location.[65] Turkey does not recognise conscientious objection and does not offer a civilian alternative to military service.[66]

Turkey is one of nine partner states of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) development and production programme. Turkey is one of five NATO member states which are part of the nuclear sharing policy of the alliance, together with Belgium, Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands.[67] A total of 90 B61 nuclear bombs are hosted at the Incirlik Air Base, 40 of which are allocated for use by the Turkish Air Force.

In 1998, Turkey announced a programme of modernisation worth US$160 billion over a twenty year period in various projects including tanks, fighter jets, helicopters, submarines, warships and assault rifles.[69] Turkey is a Level 3 contributor to the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme.[70]

Turkey has maintained forces in international missions under the United Nations and NATO since 1950, including peacekeeping missions in Somalia and former Yugoslavia, and support to coalition forces in the First Gulf War. Turkey maintains 36,000 troops in northern Cyprus; their presence is supported and approved by the de facto local government, but the Republic of Cyprus and the international community regard it as an illegal occupation force, and its presence has also been denounced in several United Nations Security Council resolutions.[71] Turkey has had troops deployed in Afghanistan as part of the United States stabilisation force and the UN-authorized, NATO-commanded International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) since 2001.[63][72] In 2006, the Turkish parliament deployed a peacekeeping force of Navy patrol vessels and around 700 ground troops as part of an expanded United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) in the wake of the Israeli-Lebanon conflict.[73]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

82 posted on 06/23/2012 7:08:05 AM PDT by ScreamingFist (Quiet the Idiot)
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To: ScreamingFist
Thank You ScreamingFist for the info ... I Just Came Back From A War (Darryl Worley) ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwpO8Q1u4Ss&feature=related
83 posted on 06/23/2012 7:15:07 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
It was the West that Lawrence and others exposed Ataturk to in WWI that drove Ataturk to move the entire country from the Eastern sphere to the West.

To understand the enormous degree and complexity of his task, he even changed the alphabet of the entire country.... and that was just the beginning!

84 posted on 06/23/2012 7:23:09 AM PDT by MindBender26 (America can survive 4 years of Romney. She cannot survive another 4 years of an unfettered Obama!)
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To: ScreamingFist

I’ll take my chances with Vlad Tepes and Ordinul Dragonului...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-g6eK5-lSE

The Turks are a mortal enemy...


85 posted on 06/23/2012 7:38:37 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood ("Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???")
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For our Military ... if is willed Win Another One For the Gipper ... and a Salute from Former President Reagan too .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwa3OIticd4&feature=related
86 posted on 06/23/2012 8:18:34 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: donna

I don’t know what your position is on the matter since you insist on lack of clarity in your posting, I lump the Turks in with the communists and Obama.


87 posted on 06/25/2012 6:01:01 AM PDT by PT57A
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To: PT57A

I lumped the Turks in with the communists and Obama. And you lacked clarity in your posting.


88 posted on 06/25/2012 1:36:27 PM PDT by donna (Mitt quote: ...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way...)
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To: donna

And you’re a plagiarist, fantastic.


89 posted on 06/25/2012 1:45:29 PM PDT by PT57A
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To: PT57A

Why are you so angry?


90 posted on 06/25/2012 3:03:18 PM PDT by donna (Mitt quote: ...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way...)
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