Skip to comments.I Dare
Posted on 06/13/2012 6:05:21 PM PDT by Grig
This may be the post that gets me zotted, and if so, so be it, but it would be a nice sign of respect for free speech, and just plain old maturity if that doesnt happen. I wont lose sleep either way though.
All through the Clinton years FR played a key role in helping me really come to appreciate the wisdom of the founding fathers as Clinton violated their principles in so many ways. I found here a large community of wise, informed posters from a diverse background that added depth and clarity to the news of the day. It was here on FR that I found out about the WTC attack. Being Canadian, the second amendment always seemed kind of silly to me, but through FR I learned how wrong that view was and now wish my country had such a right for its citizens.
That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesnt fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies. I used to spend a fair bit of time here each day, now perhaps a quick look once every few weeks because of this change in climate. I know many have left because of it, many have already posted their concerns about it, and their wise observations and suggestions have fallen on deaf ears.
I do feel I have a small measure of responsibility for the change (but no guilt). When FR started to fail to live up to its own rules about not bashing religions (when it came to my religion) we Mormon posters decided that instead of being party to the creation of long threads filled with contention that made it hard for the moderators see the difference in our behavior and theirs, we decided instead to simply post articles putting forward our position and leave the critics to show their true colors. (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2013341/posts). Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way. It is sad to see it come to this, and I hope that the day comes when sanity returns. Something that needs to happen for that day to come is for the majority of people around here to face this reality: If you are not supporting Mitt Romney, you are playing into Obamas hands. Any hopes of a brokered convention or third party conservative super-candidate are nothing but delusions fueled by a denial of reality. It comes down to either Mitt or Obama, and if you are not supporting Mitt you are helping Obama. Deal with it.
And dont try to hide behind the idea that Mitt losing will be good in the long term for conservatism. That is putting your partisanship above your patriotism. Obama has done massive damage to the USA, and if you give him another 4 years you may not have a USA left at the end of his term. What good will this theoretical transformation of the GOP then? Truth is that if Mitt loses, no matter how conservative or liberal his campaign and policies are, the media will blame it on him being too right-wing and drive the GOP to the left as much as they can. Also, the good of the country should come first if you want to call yourself a patriot, and having Mitt in the White House will be much better for the USA than having Obama there.
While Mitt is not perfect (nobody is) I find many of the attacks on him so over the top, so full of exaggeration and fear mongering that ignores contrary evidence or any sense of proportion that I cant help but suspect they hyperbole is just a mask for darker motives. The fact that in many cases these attacks come from those who also display great hostility towards Mormonism says it all. Deny it all you want, it is easy to see. For a satirical look at it, check this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG68yz-mMgE
I am going to make some predictions I would like to make, and I hope this thread stays around so that in years to come you can all look back and see how it turned out:
- every conservative you respect will vote for Mitt, all of them (perhaps a couple excepts, but not many) will even endorse him and perhaps campaign with him
- Mitt will become the next POTUS in a landslide victory,
- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security
- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life
- He will be a better president than either Bush was
- You will hear conservative pundits call him this generations Ronald Reagan, or Ronald Reagans 3rd term or something along those lines
- President Romney will be re-elected in another big victory
- His Vice President will become POTUS after his second term
- If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical)
And for those of you anti-Mormons out there, I have some prediction for you too. And these apply even if Romney is not elected as POTUS:
- Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism
- All the attacks against Romney that stem from the anti-Mormon garbage you have bought into will result in the attacker either apologizing, or in their loss of credibility. The more anti-Mormon attacks are made in the mainstream media, the worse the attackers will look.
- Your grandchildren will likewise look at such attacks as being as bigoted and wrong, even when they come from you.
- Some of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren will become Mormons, and after you are dead they will have temple ordinances performed for you, and you will be glad at the time that they do.
I dare you to post your own predictions of what a Romney presidency will result in.
I dare FR to leave this thread open and available for comments and to not delete a single comment from it.
I dare FR to start respecting freedom of religion by not playing favorites towards one religious group as is currently done by disallowing Mormon caucus threads, and if that is too big a challenge for you, the do away with the Religion Forum altogether.
I dare you all to give Mormons and Mormonism the respect it deserves to have as the 4th largest denomination in the USA, stalwart defender of traditional values, glowing example of Christian charity at home and around the world, the most conservative people of all religious groups, and staunch defenders of the principles of the constitution and values that built the country. No matter how much you disagree with us on religious matters, we are and should be treated as valuable conservative allies. Until FR does that, all they do is shoot themselves in the foot.
“Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism
Cue Who’s Sorry Now?”
Yes and as I said, it's cowardly to talk that way under the cloak of anonymity, it also shows a lack of intelligence to stoop to name calling and wild accusations. It makes me think, "is that all you've got, don't you even have a clue as to how to respond to support whatever opinion you are espousing?"
The internet is full of ignorant people who think, "if only I'm loud enough, I'll make my point, if only I'm strident and call people vile things, they'll think I'm smart".
Those same people would lace their tirades with profanity if F.R. allowed it, like they do over at D.U.
I've noticed it too. No one is getting enthused at two liberals running against each other, it's like a rat primary. Who cares?
An opinion, certainly and one that another may disagree with but a lie? Like I stated, a sore lack of intelligence and an inability to communicate.
Thanks for the kind words.
You’re right, we have no control over the words that others use against us. It’s very painful for them to be so crippled by fear of the future that they feel bound to commit themselves to a vote that makes them feel such personal shame. So, it should come as no surprise that they feel the need to strike out at others, particularly those of us who have chosen a path that we know to be honorable.
And accusing folks of wanting to do violence...
Gee never heard this before...
“I have no doubt that there are some on FR who, if they knew for sure they could get away with it, would be happy to kill a Mormon missionary, and I think a big part of the outrage over that one prediction is because they know there is truth in it. They are of the same spirit as those who crucified Christ.
I would have left long ago, but I wanted to go out like this. It feels good.”
And in response a graceomalley (whoever the heck that was here) gives us this just for Elsie
“I do believe one of their gun-toting thumpers like Elsie will try to take a shot at him!”
All this destruction of the conservative base over a cult and a non conservative con man candidate. I sure hope God makes good use of this to further expose the LDS. This much of their antics in the spot light is nothing but a plus for those promoting the truth about them.
Of course in a few years, like they do every where they go, the LDSers will finally annoy the PTB over and truebluewhiners and a few more folks who once defended them will FINALLY catch on.
A little at a time I guess...
Your point is that republicans led by conservatives *CAN* dominate Obama, but *CAN NOT* dominate Romney? I call Bull-butter!!
First: Conservatives can not lead republicans. they don't have the headcount (for votes) or the PACS (for money) that can outvote/outspend all the moderates, centrists rinos, indies, etc. If conservatives *could* lead republicans, Romney would not be the GOP candidate and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Second: Obama has already demonstrated he will skirt the congress whenever it pleases him (via regs, czars, etc) and the republicans in congress have let him do it -- I would guess because they would like the ability to do so as well some day.
Third: Republicans know full well there is no dealing with Obama. Obama has made that point clear & irrefutable. However, Romney is a wheeler-dealer's dream candidate. Republicans would have a better chance influencing a GOP president than Obama.
Vote however you like for whatever reason lets you sleep at night, but the argument you made is laughable.
Its a LONG time, tween November 6th and January 20th!Presuming Obama loses on Nov 6th, I really don't care how long it seems between Nov 6th and Jan 20th. I imagine I will be breathing many sighs of relief!
You can THINK about anything you want; but you CONTINUe to fail to provide ANY 'proof' the the HATE claim YOU keep 'spewing'.
It appears that YOU are the one having EVIDENCE problems; not any imaginary HATERS that infest your world.
You continue to post...
You mispelled LOVE.
AHhhh.... the GOOD ol’ days.
When women ‘singers’ didn’t dress up like Halloween on steriods, and they didn’t behave like a slut on crack!
I guess we’ll wait to see if there be any handwriting on the wall...
(I have a SHOVEL; too!)
That's ok; your country has OTHER 'rights' to compensate for NOT being American (I mean a citizen of the United States of America) you ARE an 'american'; just as a native of Rio de Janerio is.
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
5157, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 5866, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
I know a woman who spent about that many months in the Maricopa County jail, awaiting trial because she couldn't come up with bail money, the charges were ultimately dismissed. The accused get the same shoddy treatment that the guilty get, no wonder from what I heard from her that Maricopa County is constantly being sued.
I have no respect at all for Arpaio, he's a grandstander on a grand scale.
Joseph Smith inflamed the mormons in much the way Obama is attempting to start a civil war.
FOURTH OF JULY CELEBRATION
PRESIDENT RIGDON'S 4TH OF JULY "SALT" SERMON (1838)
Most of the speeches were about Independence Day and the free institutions of our government. But he added this language on the religious freedom of the Church in Missouri.
"But from this day and this hour we will suffer it no more. We take God and all the holy angels to witness, this day, that we warn all men, in the name of Jesus Christ to come on us no more for ever, for from this hour we will bear it no more; our rights shall no more be trampled on with impunity; the man, or the set of men who attempt it do it at the expense of their lives. And that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us, for we will carry the seat of war to their; own houses and their own families, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed.... We this day, then, proclaim ourselves free with a purpose and determination that never can be broken, No, never! No, never! No, never!" (Comprehensive History of the Church 1:441)
|Joseph Smith's Hit Man|
|Orrin Porter Rockwell|
Time to call the
(hey grig, Sandy)
Yep, grig has even said that Elsie wants to kill mormons (some one did say that was to much).
I am not sure, how a website with 418 ‘members’ feel that they are so powerful as to accuse people of wanting to murder people.
The site just appears to be angry mormons and mormon defender h%ll bent on destroying FreeRepublic.
It’s humorous because grig is a canuc, and has no dog in the hunt for president, yet demands people respect his myopic view of Romney.
There are posters who have posted articles about Romney not saying he will over turn BHOK new amnesty announcement or cut the budget if elected. We already know that Romney has said he will overturn obamaCare, yet his advisers walk that back to “maybe or parts of it”.
At TRL, they are spinning like a kids top trying to make excuses for Romney over these new revelations.
grig is a militant follower of Joseph Smith, they have learned their lessons well, and exposing the true nature mormonism as many here have seen/experienced personally.
Nice font, color and paragraph structure, I’ll give you that.
Romney is still a liberal and I don’t vote for liberals.
The pettiness of Quix who is posting daily at the FReeper hate site, AGAINST FR and AND against JR, then coming back over here and preaching to FReepers is what is outrageous.
Makes me wonder if Quix is trying to hitchhike on Grig's zot train.
Post from Quix on Truebluelosers site, June 17. 2012:
It's a hilarious joke . . . except that it's toooo painfully true on TOS. And that's horrific for Judeo/Christian and other Conservatives. It's horrific for those perpetrating such hidiousness. It's horrific for the body politic and somewhat for the country. . And sadly, it mirrors the successes of the enemy of our souls directly and through demonic globalism abroad in the land and the planet in our era as never before.
. Some of those pushing folks off the bridge with vain-glorious ZOTS are likely to find their own weights and chains dragging them off the same or a similar bridge.
AND, Quix says here: "Let's ally up!"! What a hypocrite!
Thanks for the ping, greyfoxx.
Christianity and Mormonism are separated by much more than pettiness. I have read with amazement the quotes of prominent Mormons set forth in Elsie’s very informative posts.
I have also learned that Romney’s father, George Romney, was born in Mexico and that the Romney family had helped found a commune in Mexico so that they could practice what they called “plural marriage” (polygamy) within the context of a socialist community. Unfortunately, a wave of anti-communism within the context of the Mexican Revolution forced the Romneys and their wives to flee Mexico and sneak into the United States early in the twentieth century. In this country, most Mormons remain “in the closet” regarding “plural marriage.”. Thus, Ann Romney, who seems to be a very nice lady, is all that we see.
The following is from an AB0 FR poster...
"...they cloak themselves in hyperbolic "Christian" piety,..."
Would you say this is "willing", "honest" and "rational" or would it more likely fall into the category of "religious bigotry as a motivating factor" of an AB0 proponent?
The requested "truce" that JR proposed has been met by the AB0 crowd with either great indifference or it has just served to help expose those who were always in the MR camp.
Oh, I thought Quix was talking about mormonism.
I believe that soon, very soon, we will either experience the 3rd Great Awakening or the Rapture. If it is the latter, then America will cease to be a major player on the world stage. America has the greatest percentage of Christians in the world and if they suddenly disappear, a significant portion of the tax base also disappears and the US collapses into a third world economy.
From what I know about Mormonism they believe in building strong communities. The fundamental views of Islam are hateful and destructive.
Indeed, jackv..We’re not voting for a pastor..we are voting for a President..
Mitt wasn’t my choice but I will vote for him because I believe he loves this country and does not want to destroy it.
4 more years of Obama may destroy us.
The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created BY Him.
The lds-org is a thief of the Name and the Truth of Jesus Christ.
The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.
They deny that Jesus created even the angels out of nothing.
They do NOT teach the truth about Jesus.
mormons do not have pastors.
And Jackv are you sure?
Name for me a single nationally known conservative lds politician.
Who said they did? I do.
You did post #633.
I tend to agree with Quix, that we have , sadly, probably reached such a low point and the only thing I know for sure is that God alone can save us!
“Were not voting for a pastor..we are voting for a President..”
I posted this..What is confusing you?
I don’t believe in Romney’s religion..I just think he will be better for our country than Obamanation.
What would you like me to argue?
I'm not a cricket....but I do have an opinion.
Apparently you are maybe easily overwhelmed?? From your posts...it seems that's your beef.
Let me know...I'm interested.
I'd appreciate you pointing out specific posts that are "bigoted" towards mormonism.
And while you are at it...I'd like you to post any comments, documented by B. Young and J. Smith, and other mormon "prophets"...that maybe even seem a bit bigoted..or you know just close to bigoted towards Christians.
Thanks in advance...........
Personally I think it's like blacks voting for a black. Or a hispanic voting for a hispanic. Or an muslim voting for a muslim...
Many mormons will vote for a mormon no matter what the mormon they are voting for will do to them politically.
It's human nature........
THAT all said....in this case, Romney is a better choice than Obama....How MUCH better is to be determined.
I voted against him here in Idaho and tried to convince as many as I could to do likewise. I was successful with some, but not in large.
My vote for Romney will be for two reasons:
1) To deny the known, absolute marxist ideolog, Obama from getting a 2nd term.
2) In the hopes (and I believe they are not only real, but probable) that we can hold Romney to the campaign platform he has publically established and run on, and which he has used to get many prominent conservatives to endorse him over.
I believe those prominent people, that the House and Senate we put in place...and finally the success that such positions will result in, will all combine to keep Romney to honoring those commitments.
I am your friend. Thou we've never met.
Thank you my FRiend, I just wanted to make sutre the why’s and wherefore’s of my own position and why are clear to those who may be lurking.
...and who knows, perhaps Romney is in a change mode. Perhaps because of his positions in the past in Mass he has come to the conclusions that they do not and cannot work and is in the process fo taking up a more conservative stance. It’s pretty much what he says...and his campauign platform, taken on its own, is not bad at all.
We can hope and pray for that...but in the end, we will have to get the right House and Senate in place to ensure that we are in the best position to turn this thing around in any case.
God’s speed and BZ.
Amen, my FRiend.