Golly; no one else can call THEIR thugs to help them?
Posted on 06/13/2012 6:05:21 PM PDT by Grig
This may be the post that gets me zotted, and if so, so be it, but it would be a nice sign of respect for free speech, and just plain old maturity if that doesn’t happen. I won’t lose sleep either way though.
All through the Clinton years FR played a key role in helping me really come to appreciate the wisdom of the founding fathers as Clinton violated their principles in so many ways. I found here a large community of wise, informed posters from a diverse background that added depth and clarity to the news of the day. It was here on FR that I found out about the WTC attack. Being Canadian, the second amendment always seemed kind of silly to me, but through FR I learned how wrong that view was and now wish my country had such a right for it’s citizens.
That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesn’t fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies. I used to spend a fair bit of time here each day, now perhaps a quick look once every few weeks because of this change in climate. I know many have left because of it, many have already posted their concerns about it, and their wise observations and suggestions have fallen on deaf ears.
I do feel I have a small measure of responsibility for the change (but no guilt). When FR started to fail to live up to it’s own rules about not bashing religions (when it came to my religion) we Mormon posters decided that instead of being party to the creation of long threads filled with contention that made it hard for the moderators see the difference in our behavior and theirs, we decided instead to simply post articles putting forward our position and leave the critics to show their true colors. (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2013341/posts). Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way. It is sad to see it come to this, and I hope that the day comes when sanity returns. Something that needs to happen for that day to come is for the majority of people around here to face this reality: If you are not supporting Mitt Romney, you are playing into Obama’s hands. Any hopes of a brokered convention or third party conservative super-candidate are nothing but delusions fueled by a denial of reality. It comes down to either Mitt or Obama, and if you are not supporting Mitt you are helping Obama. Deal with it.
And don’t try to hide behind the idea that Mitt losing will be good in the long term for conservatism. That is putting your partisanship above your patriotism. Obama has done massive damage to the USA, and if you give him another 4 years you may not have a USA left at the end of his term. What good will this theoretical transformation of the GOP then? Truth is that if Mitt loses, no matter how conservative or liberal his campaign and policies are, the media will blame it on him being too right-wing and drive the GOP to the left as much as they can. Also, the good of the country should come first if you want to call yourself a patriot, and having Mitt in the White House will be much better for the USA than having Obama there.
While Mitt is not perfect (nobody is) I find many of the attacks on him so over the top, so full of exaggeration and fear mongering that ignores contrary evidence or any sense of proportion that I can’t help but suspect they hyperbole is just a mask for darker motives. The fact that in many cases these attacks come from those who also display great hostility towards Mormonism says it all. Deny it all you want, it is easy to see. For a satirical look at it, check this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG68yz-mMgE
I am going to make some predictions I would like to make, and I hope this thread stays around so that in years to come you can all look back and see how it turned out:
- every conservative you respect will vote for Mitt, all of them (perhaps a couple excepts, but not many) will even endorse him and perhaps campaign with him
- Mitt will become the next POTUS in a landslide victory,
- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security
- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life
- He will be a better president than either Bush was
- You will hear conservative pundits call him this generation’s Ronald Reagan, or Ronald Reagan’s 3rd term or something along those lines
- President Romney will be re-elected in another big victory
- His Vice President will become POTUS after his second term
- If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical)
And for those of you anti-Mormons out there, I have some prediction for you too. And these apply even if Romney is not elected as POTUS:
- Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism
- All the attacks against Romney that stem from the anti-Mormon garbage you have bought into will result in the attacker either apologizing, or in their loss of credibility. The more anti-Mormon attacks are made in the mainstream media, the worse the attackers will look.
- Your grandchildren will likewise look at such attacks as being as bigoted and wrong, even when they come from you.
- Some of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren will become Mormons, and after you are dead they will have temple ordinances performed for you, and you will be glad at the time that they do.
I dare you to post your own predictions of what a Romney presidency will result in.
I dare FR to leave this thread open and available for comments and to not delete a single comment from it.
I dare FR to start respecting freedom of religion by not playing favorites towards one religious group as is currently done by disallowing Mormon caucus threads, and if that is too big a challenge for you, the do away with the Religion Forum altogether.
I dare you all to give Mormons and Mormonism the respect it deserves to have as the 4th largest denomination in the USA, stalwart defender of traditional values, glowing example of Christian charity at home and around the world, the most conservative people of all religious groups, and staunch defenders of the principles of the constitution and values that built the country. No matter how much you disagree with us on religious matters, we are and should be treated as valuable conservative allies. Until FR does that, all they do is shoot themselves in the foot.
Yup!
The spineless weasels that ran MORMONism threw their GOD under the bus; in favor of STATEHOOD.
~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President
~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
DANG!!!
Who to believe???!!!
Who to believe???!!!
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University) http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng
Ah...
I sure do miss Paragon Defender - PD.
Sorry; but...
Any place that a MORMON has the nerve to start spouting any of their HERESY will turn in to a BASH.
Bold
ANTIs
Spotlighting
Heresy
In your unabridged Oxford Dictionaries, the word "faggotry" denotes the bundling of steel to be hammered or rolled together.
Mammalian evolution is entirely heterosexual.
Monogamy is not required for evolution, monogamy is a tenet of religion.
To prohibit polyandry and polygyny is an ecclesiastic rule of law.
To establish an ecclesiastic standard of monogamy for homosexuals is nothing but RELIGIOUS FAGGOTRY.
All men are born of a woman.
If you have to tell grown men that babies will not come out of their rectums, there is no hope for any rational discourse...
The government of men's external actions by religion, pretending the change of nature in their consecrations cannot be esteemed a work extraordinary, it is no other than a conjuration or incantation, whereby they would have men to believe an alteration of nature that is contrary to the testimony of sight and of all the rest of the senses.
The praeterpolitical power of the churches to institute monogamy as an ecclesiastic rule of law enabled them to determine the legitimacy of the succession of the pagan kings, abrogate the natural rights to property and self-defense, as well as gave them power of ecclesiastic censure for divorce.
The ecclesiastics would have men believe they will receive condign punishment for their contumacy of monogamy, as opposed to the freedom of the polygamy found in nature, which is inherently pagan.
We have gotten a lot of the "I am not a MORMON" folks that wish us to not bash MORMONism, but to expound on why OUR faith is better.
The problem is; when we do the taste test, like shown on TV, THEN the complaint is "Don't let them taste brand X."
Golly; no one else can call THEIR thugs to help them?
BS. The Mormons were not driven off this site. They pushed the envelope with their whining and their proselytizing and their devotion to Romney. For years Jim Robinson gave them kid glove treatment on this site and let them get away with all kinds of crap that nobody else could do. Hundreds of Freepers were suspended or banned over the years for posting the truth about Mormonism. I was suspended several times because the Mormons got upset when I'd post information about their rituals and practices and beliefs and they'd whine to the mods and my posts would get pulled and on several occasions I was temporarily booted off the site.
Then one day Jim Robinson decided that he wasn't going to treat the Mormon whiners like the little babies that they were becoming. He gave some of us free reign to talk about Mormon history, doctrine, practices and rituals and basically decided to treat Mormonism like he allowed every other religion to be treated on Free Republic. IOW he allowed us to actually openly discuss Mormonism without banning us. What happened after that was that the Mormon apologists whined and complained constantly to the mods and the mods ignored them. Then they started calling Free Republic an "Anti-Mormon" site and one after another they either ran away because they could not bear to hear the truth about Mormonism or they posted some really nasty invectives about Free Republic or Jim Robinson and they basically committed suicide like Grig did here today.
Mormons can't stand the truth. That is the bottom line. When their beliefs, doctrines, rituals, history and practices are exposed to the light, they either leave the church, like I did, or they cower in the corner and cry foul.
Yup.
A bunch of dimwitted MORMONs will start foaming at the mouth and get themselves ZOTTED to boost their street cred in PROVO.
A bright individual like yourself should be about to NAME them; so the unsuspected LURKERS will not be taken in by their treachery!
A bright individual like yourself should be able to NAME them; so the unsuspected LURKERS will not be taken in by their treachery!
I’m glad you’ve cleared this up!
It seems you left out Joseph Smith’s “White Horse Prophecy”.
One wonders if you believe this is being fulfilled in Mitt Romney.
No, we certainly don’t want Obama to have another four years; on that we can agree.
The question is not whether Mormons and RLDS are decent enough folk. I have known many over several decades, and by far, they are decent folks and I’ve been friends with many of them.
The question is whether Joseph Smith was a false prophet; and he clearly was. There’s no doubt that this thing has a powerful effect on people. But that doesn’t relieve Joseph Smith of making completely false and ridiculous claims.
As if another example need be given, simply the “scholars” of BYU sitting around, nodding heads with one another, that they “celebrate” Eve taking the fruit in the Garden of Eden is breathtakingly, and astonishingly, such bad doctrine, it boggles the mind.
Yes, I watched the show. I had heard this was done and I watched in amazement as they called the Fall of Mankind a “good thing” because Eve partook of the knowledge to attain “godhood” (which is what they implied).
Obviously these men do not comprehend the Scriptures or they would be wary of making such a comment, as it clearly demonstrates they are calling the lie of the Serpent “a good thing”.
And there are dozens of other things. Exhume that Cumorah Hill and dig up the 230,000+ skeletons from 397 or 405 A.D. which would still be there. Just digging up a few skeletons won’t suffice. They would need to prove tens of thousands of skeletons. But since they aren’t there, and it would destroy the Mormon fairy tale of Moroni, it will never happen.
Prediction: This will never happen because this massive number of skeletons are not there, neither are their steel swords. Because this Cumorah Hill battle, the root of the Book of Mormon, with Moroni from the Land of Moron, never, ever took place. Except in the mind of Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, and very possibly Solomon Spaulding.
Wherever it came from, it never happened and there never were any “golden plates”.
Who uses a cup?
The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.
1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.
2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.
3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired.
4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.
5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.
6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.
7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.
8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.
9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.
10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.
11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.
12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.
13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.
14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.
15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.
16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:
17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!
18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.
19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!
20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.
21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.
22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.
But WHICH 'Hill Cumorah'?
GOD only knows where it is!!
Travis Tritt for one. ;)
Oops I forgot some claim 385. I was going from memory and I thought the BoM I saw said 396 to 397 or possibly as late as 405 A.D.
In any case, none of it happened; thanks for the references.
Islam is a fairly sizeable religion as well, that doesn't mean they're legitimate in the eyes of God or right. Anyway, I've resigned myself to voting for Mitt in November. He was not my first choice, he wasn't even on my list of choices.
Iowa still has 8 different precincts who “lost” all their paperwork. Members of Romney's church have been working the precincts.
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/20/145500170/8-precinct-vote-totals-missing-from-iowa-caucuses
The GOP gave romney Iowa after a caucus worker went to the media and told them romney only had 2 votes in that county not 22. It took over two weeks to correct-time enough for romney to get NH.
http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2012/01/06/appanoose-county-gop-chairman-im-confident-the-results-are-accurate
He had his friends kick some his opponents off the ballots in some states.
In the last year romney and some of his supporters helped romney by changing many states rules: Some conservative states were changed to split delegates and some liberal states were changed to winner take all. This heavily favored romney and hurts conservatives.
Romney, Virginia GOP commits election fraud: FOX News
The Examiner
Michael Phelps
With only minutes before the first Super-Tuesday Caucuses were set to close, FOX News and the University of Virginia Center for Politics reported a likely election fraud situation, committed by Mitt Romney and the Virginia GOP.
The establishment elite may be up to their usual 2012, nomination process shenanigans again as more people in positions of knowing have come forward to proclaim their displeasure with the establishment’s handling of challenges to their favorite candidate.
Multiple states across the country reported precincts tampered with, votes permanently lost, elections oddly postponed, permanently unverifiable results, and now simply not even allowing candidates to even be on the ballot to begin with.
Reporting from Virginia, FOX News’s Shannon Breen gave voice to political analyst, Virginia Tech’s Larry Sabato, who says it is very likely Mitt Romney and the Virginia GOP establishment, and their minions purposely kept signatures from being counted so, at least, Newt Gingrich wouldn’t be on Virginia’s ballot on Super-Tuesday.
With only minutes before the first Super-Tuesday Caucuses were set to close, FOX News and the University of Virginia Center for Politics reported a likely election fraud situation, committed by Mitt Romney and the Virginia GOP.
The establishment elite may be up to their usual 2012, nomination process shenanigans again as more people in positions of knowing have come forward to proclaim their displeasure with the establishment’s handling of challenges to their favorite candidate.
Multiple states across the country reported precincts tampered with, votes permanently lost, elections oddly postponed, permanently unverifiable results, and now simply not even allowing candidates to even be on the ballot to begin with.
Reporting from Virginia, FOX News’s Shannon Breen gave voice to political analyst, Virginia Tech’s Larry Sabato, who says it is very likely Mitt Romney and the Virginia GOP establishment, and their minions purposely kept signatures from being counted so, at least, Newt Gingrich wouldn’t be on Virginia’s ballot on Super-Tuesday.
If the allegations are investigated and found to be accurate, it would represent an addition to the growing list of reports showing the establishment elite to be manipulating the nomination process country wide, in favor on Mitt Romney.
Further stealing caucuses from other candidates, mainly Ron Paul, to likely insure the continuance of a 1%’r agenda that, according to Wall Street and the lion’s share of its campaign donation money, Mitt Romney is most likely to support should he be the nominee and beat Obama in November.
Supporting Medium:
FOX News (video): Romney & GOP kept Gingrich off of Virginia ballot
Examiner: Ron Paul’s wife, Carol Paul says elections are being stolen
CSM: Did Mitt Romney steal Maine caucuses from Ron Paul?
BuzzFeed: “Outrage”: Ron Paul Manager Claim Conspiracy In Maine
Political Wire: Santorum Says Romney Rigged Straw Poll
WSJ: Paul Campaign Challenges Romney's Maine Win
Examiner: Maine vote fraud official
Examiner: Nevada vote fraud official
Examiner: Iowa vote fraud official
Suggested by the author:
Iowa’s delegate seats for sale: Sources
Carol Paul: Election fraud confirmed
Romney Paul alliance: Pure establishment theater
Ron Paul Campaign: Establishment hiding Maine Caucus results
Newsmax accidentally prints Romney Nevada win article 2 days early
Romney is buying the election. Romney bought endorsements and had his friends buy attack ads so harsh and untrue, other candidates did not have a chance.
Romney was working with the gop establishment and various people in the media, to take out all the opposition. Just like obama has his hit people in the media hurting republicans, romney had his hit people hurting his opponents. Unfair and corrupt politicking. It's pretty low when you use the lefts tactics on the people on your side. It's about control and power for romney.
Why would ANYONE vote for another liar, cheat, thief.....pro abortion, pro gay marriage, pro gay adoption,.......politician? I will not stand before God and say I gave someone the power to kill an innocent baby or corrupt the hearts and minds of our children with the gay agenda....
Yes, I called romney a liar, cheat, thief.....I have the proof to post it. I don't think many here want to see the proof or hear it, I know it would not matter to them, character doesn't matter, only winning against the other liar, cheat, thief..........
What an excellent summary of the primary theft. Thanks for posting.
Harder to believe that I, the great ELSIE, cannot see it!
Section 132 of Doctrine and Covenants, which commands polygamy for salvation is still mormon doctrine. It has never been removed or renounced. You should read it sometime.
Mormon doctrine also allows for "eternal polygamy" after death.
The mormon church has NOT "renounced polygamy".
Post of the week!!
I saw an anti-Romney ad on TV the other day that hit his conservative credentials, that he really only ranked 47th in the nation in job creation and some other blurb about his failure as a governor. Some no-name organization was responsible for it.
We can assume that it wasn’t a conservative opponent who was using a 3rd party to hit Romney from the right. Goode and Johnson don’t have the money to fund such an ad.
Therefore, it came from Obama. It’s only another installment in Obama attacks on Romney from every direction: left, right, center, religion, foreign policy, etc. And these people will use cut-outs when they don’t want their own fingerprints to be visible.
Any Romney supporter who thinks it should be hands-off on Romney’s religion is naive. A better course of action is to makes sure everyone knows everything about Mormonism, expose every conceivable wrinkle or flaw, and have it debated ad nauseum until people are tired of hearing about it.
That is called “innoculation” in political seasons. GWBush would have been well-served by coming out as a former problem drinker about this time in the primary season during his first run. That way, the October 31 surprise of a DUI would have had its day in the sun and been no big deal.
So, P-M, these people should be thanking you for detailing their unusual practices and beliefs of mormonism NOW. If you really wanted to hurt the guy, you’d hold that ammo until it really hurts. That’s why I expect to see the media hammer it in earnest some time shortly after the republican convention.
Face it: mormonism has some really weird beliefs. The real problem with exposing Romney so he can get his innoculation is that it probably injures mormon missionary outreach. Can’t have everybody knowing that mormons believe Jesus and Satan came from the same litter and that a pantheon of gods assemble on Kolob to elect new gods to their number.
The OP of this thread began the discussion with hatred. Go back and read the vanity.
Oh, wait...you're one of these "take a dump" and run posters....whatever.
There is a lot less stress when you do unto to others then split...
Perhaps the 'LIST' was NOT pinged initially; but some poster, down the line, makes a STATEMENT that may appeal to us; THEN we get pinged.
Yesterday? Or the day before? Pardon my poor memory, it's as old as I am. Anyway, I pinged 4 names of people who I know to be Christians and "F.I.s . It was on a thread where a new member was being pounded for expressing his Christian views.
The club that was being used against him was his newness to Free Republic, the poster who was doing it had an '05 sign up date and I pinged you and a few others, after expressing my own 100% agreement with the noob and daring the name caller with the '05 date to "suspect" my motives. I knew you and the others I pinged would agree with the noob and let him know that he was not about to be zotted for expressing his Christianity in the respectful way he was doing it.
The agitator who was using his "seniority" to club the noob with, slunk away.
There are good and valid reasons for pinging other Christians, there are no valid reasons for using someone elses newness to Free Republic to threaten him/her with a zot for expressing his Christian beliefs in the manner that he did.
I try to not let someone's sign up date effect what I interpret what someone is saying, remembering my own experiences as a noob. The person I am engaging in conversation may have signed up yesterday but just possibly could have been forming their political and religious beliefs long, long before I joined F.R. and if he feels the urge to tell me I'm off base, I just gotta live with it and try to convince him of how wrong he is, without resorting to calling him "troll" or something equally odious.
I've been on the F.I. ping list since its inception for a reason, I don't always comment but the other F.I.s know me and know what I'm interested in and that I want to be pinged.
Note - I do not use the word "noob" disparagingly, it's just something we've all been through, except for J.R.
I'm talking about conservatives relegating the Republican Party to third-party status and you say I'm thinking small?Absolutely! Your end goal is admirable, but you are aiming WAAAAY too small if you are relying on conservatives alone to get it done. To achieve any success, you would first have to increase the number of conservatives as a voting bloc by orders of magnitude. As things stand now, you would barely register on the radar screen or get labeled an extremist by all those other voting blocs on the right. You are a goldfish in a bowl full of sharks.
You vote the pack mentality and once the GOP-E has told you who you have to supportWrong again. The GOP-E told all those Romney voters who to vote for in the primaries -and- they did just as they were told. I voted for Gingrich. Now, the choice comes down to two "most-viable" candidates: Obama & whoever the GOP runs. You want me to vote for someone other than the GOP candidate? Fine. Give me someone more viable than the GOP candidate and I will *DEFINITELY* vote for him. You have until Nov. 6th, 2012 when I walk into that voting booth to to get it done. Take your time.
I'm not beholden to the GOP, I'm beholden to whoever stands the best chance of beating Obama and I don't care who that is. If you don't feel the same, then I presume you are either desperate for some way to feel good about yourself (country be damned) and/or you actually prefer Obama for whatever reason. Knowingly voting for someone who you know darn well doesn't stand a snowball's chance is an act of futility.
Do me the courtesy of admitting that a principled group of conservatives can get a job doneThey can, but name the last time a principled group of conservatives displaced the GOP's presidential candidate *after* the nominating convention? You can't. Local, State and US Congress races? Oh, heck yes! Presidential races? I admire your optimism, but wishful thinking won't get you anywhere and we lack the leverage to force it. Go fish.
If voting for Mitt Romney, or in your admittedly far-fetched example, the town drunk, advances grass-roots conservatism, I'd love to hear how that takes place.If the majority of likely voter polling indicates the town-drunk leads all others opposing Obama, then that's who I vote for. Don't like the town-drunk? Then get your guy out in front. I don't care *who* it is as long as Obama is gone. We have three or four SCOTUS justices in their 80's. Given those appointments are for *LIFE* and we already know Obama favors lib/prog/lesbian/whatever Justices (Kagen & Sotomayor), I won't vote in any way that gives any statistical advantage to Obama that might lead to him picking one or more replacement justices next term. You can give him all the advantage you like, but don't even bother trying to sell me an infeasible long-shot. For the nth time, I'm voting for whoever stands the best chance of beating Obama at this point, whoever that may be. Currently that's the GOP candidate. Don't foolishly presume that indicates I support the GOP. If you get your candidate ahead of the GOP candidate, I'll switch in a heartbeat, GOP be damned. It is just that simple.
Opposition from the right will be useless by that point in timeWhat? A moment ago, you were all gung-ho on the miraculous power of a "a principled group of conservatives" doing the impossible. Get them together and make it known wide and far that we are seeking a primary challenger for the next election. We'll have 4 years - *YEARS* - to get our act together and apply whatever pressure we can bear. Right now we only have 4 months. You couldn't even get conservatives to agree on a candidate in four months. That's why the most viable candidate is the only sane option.
You are talking about abandoning Romney to get some stealth candidate out in front and you can't even name an alternate candidate that a majority of conservatives will agree on. Now, if there was such a candidate, we would not be having this conversation and you know it. We would all be united behind *OUR* candidate and we'd all on the same sheet of music (or the clear majority of us would be).
Look, I don't care to hear about your fantasy candidate. I don't care to hear the same old retreaded complaints about Romney - you're preaching to the choir. All I want to hear about is a specific candidate and how we convince all the needed voting blocs to pull the lever for that guy over Obama. Then we need to see some polling of likely voters indicating that they are buying what we are selling. I don't care if that's the GOP candidate, some stealth candidate or even the town drunk. You get him in the lead -- I vote for him. Plain & simple.
Bull, most of the ones we have seen have been dedicated Romney supporters going back to their sign up time or 6 years ago, they are almost all non-conservative rinos.
(Unashamed suckup by ELSIE)
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It wasn’t that unashamed or you would have pinged the Boss.
Mormons can’t stand the truth. That is the bottom line. When their beliefs, doctrines, rituals, history and practices are exposed to the light, they either leave the church, like I did, or they cower in the corner and cry foul.
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Worth reposting again and again.
Cheaters never prosper.
I'm ready to dismiss all such people as either leftwingtards or Obama 'truth squad' employees.
When they are relative 'newbies' (with a 2008 join date) and no "About Page" it's pretty clear they not here for any good purpose.
The cold hard facts are we have a couple of splinter groups in the Republican party ~ the GOP-e, and the "I sell books to Republicans" ~ who have access to a handful of billionaires, and they peddle their poisonous spiel to them, and next thing you know we have a bunch of people who should know better campaigning for out and out Liberals.
We already had 17 million Evangelicals who didn't vote in the last Presidential election. We'll have another 20 milion who won't vote in this one. The Republican party will look very much like the Dixiecrat coalition in terms of electoral strength.
Maybe too isolated, too much elevation, un-coolness or something ~ maybe the Samoan football players get all the attention (and aren't those guys all supposed to be Seventh Day Adventists anyway).
The street system was interesting, but not worth revisiting.
You'll notice I didn't even need to get around to doctrines.
Unless the materials were specially protected ~ like the Spanish cross buried with the dead guy at Spanish HIll PA in the late 1500s ~ they are just gone.
Only the most acid resistant goods have survived just the last 400 years. Ceramics, fired clay, large iron objects ~ that's about it.
Otherwise there's no evidence of any pre-Columbian iron culture in Eastern North America, nor should there be. In the West things are different, but we still don't see iron implements ~ or much of anything in terms of high culture. Still we know Buddhists of some sort made it to the PacNW, and Japanese made it to the Zuni area, Costa Rica, Chile, and other areas in pre-Columbian times, but there's no evidence they engaged in making iron objects ~ and they knew how!
Anyone else recalling Saundra Duffy pushing the limits of good conduct and then constantly claiming censorship and martyrdom when called on it?
Well, we have Grig here being a doofus and anti_FReeping from the trollpit of trewblew.
And we have MrPiper posting garbage to provoke a mod reaaction and then whining about it as well.
Couldn’t be that they are trying to fake an event like Dan Rather did, right?
No, that wouldn’t happen.
Grig has chosen to disbelieve people like me; that's his error. FReeper saywhatagain wrote TRUE words when he posted:
Saying that many dislike Mitt's politics because of his Mormonism is no different than liberals saying to disagree with O is racist.
No Mormon church that I've ever seen sports a cross, and Mormonism's own history clearly illustrates how Mormonism is separate from Christianity, except for those who would quibble over the meaning of the word "is."
And P-Marlowe, the picture becomes even more clear as you post another obvious, demonstrable TRUTH:
Just as Mormons are, in fact, wolves in sheep's clothing pretending to be Christians, Romney is a wolf in sheep's clothing pretending to be a Republican.
The psy-op convincing patriots that the world would end and Republicans would be as weak as kittens if Obama got a 2nd term, is hidden in plain sight.
Conservatives and Republicans could very likely DOMINATE Obama if he got a 2nd term, as Obama is despised by at least half of Americans.
Romney, judging by his record and by the overall composition of Republicans in Congress, woud most likely DOMINATE Conservatives if he got a first term.
THEREFORE the only reasonable way for me to vote in the presidential, and it is MY DUTY to vote, is to leave it to God -- and Americans willing to sanction either Romney or Obama -- to decide which authoritarian will be the next President.
This, FRiends, is why I perceive that at this stage of the game, the NUMBER ONE PRIORITY for American conservatives is see Romney denied a landslide. Grig himself has illustrated what would happen: What was in reality a desperate referendum against Obama, would be twisted by Romney, the GOP-e, and moderates into an enthusiastic mandate and endorsement of Romney's "progressivism."
LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP.
THX 1138
Are you a former Mormon?
Unfortunately, for Mormons, and other so blinded, the Lord will destroy an unrepentant Babylon.
The Harlot that sitteth upon the beast is condemned of herself.
Mormons are trying to save their religion, not their souls.
How much less, those that they evangelize.
TF replies: Romneycare, passed by an alliance of RINO's and Democrats.
And that's not counting the crushing regulation and control on virtually every aspect of energy and food production, as well as consumption, via the whole Global Warming hype that Romney embraces.
A Romney presidency would mean a Republican President bent on bending Americans to government via environmental regulation. COUNT ON IT.
One way or the other (unless a miracle happens), our next president is going to be an authoritarian statist who seeks to expand government control over our lives. Voting for Romney fails to deal with it -- it is whistling past the graveyard.
If it comes to O v R, there is only one way I can see to DEAL WITH IT: cast a presidential vote for the sole purpose of hoping enough patriots are equally as contemptuous of Government Growth, and that when the votes are counted, the vote was so split that authoritarian president in the White House in 2013 is looking at an electorate that rejected him 2 to 1. Forcing a plurality "victory" is the only way to help conservatives fight the next statist president, whoever he ends up being.
Yes, that's clear to many of us.
We need to try to understand, though, that there are many people who chart their lives based upon their fears. They consistently choose what they perceive to be the safest, least challenging path. They view people like us as overly aggressive in the face of danger. They persistently and repetitively describe the dangers that they see because they convince themselves that we must somehow not see the dangers that have robbed them of the courage to directly confront the source of their terror.
There isn't any cure for them; it is just their basic nature. They will consistently choose flight over fight. They deserve our patience and respect.
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