Israeli researchers find American Indians with Jewish genetic markers

Xinhuanet ^ | 5-30-12

[SJackson]

JERUSALEM, May 30 (Xinhua) -- Geneticists at an Israeli hospital said they have found a unique Jewish genetic mutation among an American Indian tribe, indicating that they are descendants of Jews expelled from Spain 600 years ago, local Haaretz daily reported on Wednesday.

The findings of the study, conducted at the Sheba Medical Center near Tel Aviv, show that a group of Indians from the State of Colorado bear the so-called "Ashkenazi mutation," on the BRCA1 gene - a marker unique to European Jews.

While such so-called "secret Jews," or "Anusim" in Hebrew, whose families assimilated into various north and south American cultures hundreds of years ago after journeying to the New World are more and more known, this is the first time an Indian tribe has shown the gene.

Those Jews were believed to be descendants of a Jewish man who left Europe and settled in south America about 600 years ago - likely among the hundreds of thousands of Jews expelled by Spain in 1492, and possibly among those who sailed with Christopher Columbus, according to the report, which appears in the European Journal of Human Genetics.

[editor-surveyor]

The use of the term “Jews” here is not appropriate, since they are talking about genetics.

Ashkenaz is not ‘Jewish’ by genetics, but by having adopted Judaism a long time ago. They are not Hebrew in any way.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “wasn’t Christopher Columbus a converted Jew?” <<

.
All of the “Italian” surnames that end in an O are originally Jewish immigrants. They all absorbed into the latin culture in the distant past, but do have revealing facial features.

My mother was from two of those families.

Colombo would likely be Jewish.

[wolfcreek]

Perhaps the Rothschilds paid a visit.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm

[douginthearmy]

I am not trying to rub any salt in any wounds and you have a personal connection to the issue so I have no desire to offend you. I am just going by pure numbers and math which may seem cold, but the post was in reference to average IQ which in and of itself removes the issue from the individual level and speaks of whole groups. A large number of Ashkenzai Jews (who are those with the measured higher average IQ) descend from those Jews living in Poland who had the means to escape to the Soviet Union. It is quite possible that this may have accounted for at least some shift upwards in the average intelligence.

[F15Eagle]

Ummm, it’s the region. Wow.

[F15Eagle]

I’m just agreeing with him it’s a name for an area.

They were in the region alongside Gomer after the Tower of Babel.

Genesis 10:3

And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Ashkenaz&qs_version=KJV

[dennisw]

A Woody Allen line

Do you remember the Woody Allen line “In my family, the worst sin was paying retail”?
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:PRhIEsTAosYJ:www.templesinainj.org/content/sermons/pdf/ErevYomKippur5768Sermon.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShUpAGNs-SO5JP8M7q3zLpaVNvqUkf696L2bNz6UQRsVleJaZnHUUX8jOn1tKHJOhU3-_FFrlSp0pRFakgmMX2jf6Y2qpTMu3cmm6f339lbjcZqiEcsgHOC7fs-sMafSm_rkwyP&sig=AHIEtbQw0DlC9L47-45G4cU_8GzbnsR6mw&pli=1

[Slings and Arrows]

Probably what I was thinking of, at least subconsciously.

[F15Eagle]

It’s what didn’t happen 2600 years ago.

Joseph Smith claims that a group of Jews escaped in boats, in 600 B.C., which wound up underwater (hence some call them “submarines” because they supposedly survive being buried in the sea numerous times) which then reach Central or North America (depending upon how the fairy tale is spun) and then become American Indians; yes they try the Mayan thing, too, which is why it is included in the ridiculous pageant at Cumorah Hill.

That’s why you see the Mayan structure included here to try and give legitimacy to this thing that has no actual proof at all. It’s a shame that so many have been led to believe this is “history”, when it is in fact, not history. Yes some of them are/have been friends of mine over the years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syoIsiTGHQ0

It’s a complete fairy tale; absolutely no archaeological proof and even contrary to real history (American Indians with steel swords in 396 A.D.- 405 A.D. Cumorah Hill “battle” - were Moroni from the Land of Moron is killed - yes, it actually makes that claim - and then this dead Indian Moroni comes back as an “angel”, again unBiblical, and tells Joseph Smith where to find the golden plates and the magical stones to put into the hat glowing with “Reformed Egyptian”, and English).

Joseph Smith’s scam with Egyptian funeral documents and the Kinderhook Plates (where he took the bait) both exposed him and the fairy tale of the BoM, yet again.

So people go out with their families, eat carnival food, and are fed this lie at Cumorah Hill. And Joseph Smith contradicts himself on the Garden of Eden, making to be in Jackson County, Missouri, where you find Kansas City, Missouri (among other cities).

[rmlew]

I’m not offended. Trust me, you would know if I were offended.
IQ testing in the US was not affected by the Holocaust. To few Jews came after the war to change the figures. And the scores were essentially the same in 1960 as they are today, after the introduction of many “Soviet” Jews.

[Yehuda]

“Umm, how could there be a traditional Hebrew name for Germany when there was no such place as Germany when there were traditional Hebrews - i.e., before the destruction of the temple.”

Don’t be stupid. They re referring to the REGION which BECAME Germany that was settled in by Jews (and others) before the nation-state became “Germany”.

[Yehuda]

You can find out, if you’re a neo-nazi, communist or jihadi.

Wake up, genius.

You quoted lies and BS, you don’t know what you’re talking about, you have been shown numerous links to follow up on, yet you are persisting in pushing lies that only neo-nazis, communists or jihadis rely on.

If you insist on follow those paths, please allow us to show you the door.

[Savage Beast]

I had heard that and found it very interesting. Nostradamus also I think, though, of course, he was French. Why do the names tend to end in O?

[SJackson]

The use of the term “Jews” here is not appropriate, since they are talking about genetics....All of the “Italian” surnames that end in an O are originally Jewish immigrants

I certainly agree with the first part. This ancestry prowling through DNA is interesting, but imo meaningless. I wonder what other northern European groups share the same genes. The "o" thing I've not heard.

[SJackson]

Uh..........wasn’t Christopher Columbus a converted Jew?

No, though he was clearly sympathetic. The unsubstantiated speculation was that he had a distant Jewish ancestor. While the Reich only went back two generations, grandma and gramps, the Inquisition went back four, great greats, in looking for Jewish ancestry, though that only imposed on you the restrictions of a "new" Christian, much less severe than the Reich. Off topic, but even the Inquisition wouldn't be concerned about Elizabeth Warren's Cherokee "roots".

[SJackson]

No one thinks of David, much less Jesus as Moabites.

They were from Utah? :>)

[SJackson]

Does this mean that Elizabeth Warren is also a descendant of one of the Lost Tribes of Israel? That would mean Harvard got a “twofer.”

No, she's never been published in a Jewish cookbook, of which there are many. She might have tried, but being Jewish isn't an advantage in the Ivy league, Jews are overrepresented.

[SJackson]

The exciting field of Modern DNA science is remarkably showing that Jews are Jews by DNA going all the way back to Old Testament Biblical times

Doesn't explain Sammy Davis Jr.

[SJackson]

“Umm, how could there be a traditional Hebrew name for Germany when there was no such place as Germany when there were traditional Hebrews - i.e., before the destruction of the temple.”

Simple, place names are often descriptors of inhabitants. In this case the descendents of Ashkenaz, Gomer's son. It's true they moved around. No reason not to call the residents of the region in Roman times Gauls or barbarians. But it is a Hebrew name.

[SJackson]

Perhaps the Rothschilds paid a visit.

Naah, then they'd be bankers and little old winemakers.

[wolfcreek]

Maybe they thought the ‘native’ would win? :O

[editor-surveyor]

The “O” ending thing is not 100% reliable, except in Scicily, where it seems to run pretty strong.

It has never been an ‘advertised’ thing, but it is fairly common knowledge within the families.

[editor-surveyor]

P.S.

The same thing sort of works in Romania. I have a friend who is a Romanian immigrant, whose name is Vianu, and he tells me that it is about the same there, except with a U instead of the O. He is a practicing Jew, but his family in Romania shunned their ancestry, and attended a Catholic parish.

[SJackson]

Interesting, thanks. Wonder what a last name ending in a means in Kenya.

[1010RD]

That’s interesting, although they wouldn’t be Jews at all. They’d be Israelites as the ten tribes hadn’t been scattered yet.

Have you looked into Noah’s Ark lately? Reread the story and you’ll be surprised.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Thank you very much.

[krb]

Fortunately, 80% of the Jewish immigrants to the USA are Ashkenazi.

That post reminds me of this Dilbert strip:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews

Today they [Ashkenazis] make up approximately 80 percent of Jews worldwide

[F15Eagle]

I said that because the concept that Joseph Smith was selling was that they were Israelites or Jews.

Hence the idea of finding Jewish DNA markers in American Indians.

There are desperate attempts to find any legitimacy to Joseph Smith’s scam which he foisted on a bunch of rural Americans in the 1800’s.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/25.5?lang=eng#4

5 Yea, and my soul delighteth in the words of aIsaiah, for I came out from Jerusalem, and mine eyes hath beheld the things of the bJews, and I know that the Jews do cunderstand the things of the prophets, and there is none other people that understand the things which were spoken unto the Jews like unto them, save it be that they are taught after the manner of the things of the Jews.

6 But behold, I, Nephi, have not taught my children after the manner of the Jews; but behold, I, of myself, have dwelt at Jerusalem, wherefore I know concerning the regions round about; and I have made mention unto my children concerning the judgments of God, which ahath come to pass among the Jews, unto my children, according to all that which Isaiah hath spoken, and I do not write them.

[Slings and Arrows]

My pleasure.

[Yaelle]

Fascinating!

[Chickensoup]

SO THEY REALLY ARE THE TRIBE???

[blam]

"Today they [Ashkenazis] make up approximately 80 percent of Jews worldwide "

Very interesting, thanks.

[editor-surveyor]

In Kenya, an A ending means Marxist Socialist Genes.
.

[saradippity]

I believe you said Koestler was a communist,anti Zionist in your first comment. In this post you seem to agree that “Darkness at Noon” was a ‘devastating indictment of communism’. Did Koestler see the error of his ways or did you misstate his position?

[Yehuda]

“Wonder what a last name ending in a means in Kenya.”

Interestingly enough, the name “Obama” translates as “dog-eating, back-stabbing, sock-chucker” both in Kenyan, and in English.

[kabumpo]

But you referred to him as a communist and a hack. Yet you seem to agree that “Darkness at Noon” is both anti-Communist and literature deserving of its high reputation. Which is it?

[rmlew]

Koestler held many positions in his lifetime. He was a Zionist in his youth. He came from an assimilated family, but experienced antisemitism in the Horthy regency of Hungary. He spent the rest of his life trying to find an answer to the Jewish question.
In his youth, he was a Zionist. After dropping out of college, he moved to Palestine. At first he tried to join a Kibbutz but was refused for bourgeois tendencies. He then became a Revisionist Zionist and worked for Jabotinsky for two years. He then became a journalist in Berlin, becoming a communist. He decided that the solution to the Jewish question, was to stop being Jews or Jewish. After seeing the Stalinist purges, he became an anti-communist socialist. In the 1960 and 1970s he sought to trancend his existence with drugs. It was at this time he wrote The Thirteenth Tribe. Ironically, this old idea that Jews were Khazars was one used by Hungarian Jews in a failed attempt to stop antisemitism. The 9 Tribe (On-oghur) confederation, led by Magyars, which became Hungary included the Khabars/Kavars, a group of Khazars who fled after losing a civil war. (In fact, the Magyars had been subordinates of the Khazars at least until 896, when the Khazars and Hungarians fought the Bulgarians and Pechenegs in the Bulgaro-Byzantine war. The Hungarians then invaded Pannonia). Some Hungarian Jews claimed to be Khazars as a way of saying that they were ethnically Hungarian. It is therefor ironic to find Nazis and neo-Nazis who like Hungarians rail at so-called Khazars.
Be that as it may, Koestler has lost it in the 1970s starting to write about ESP and psychokinesis.

[jackal7163]

Actually the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the vowels is like that of the Yemenite Jews who still have a different sound for each letter of the alephbet, unlike the Sefardis or Ashkenazi. Yemenite Jews go back to first temple and not second temple. My Yemenite Siddur actually has more in common with the Ashkenazi than the Sefardi

[Partisan Gunslinger]

You are probably correct. In 721 BC the ten northern tribes of Israel were dispersed to all the nations as part of their judgment for breaking covenant with Yahweh. Those Israelites were scattered to the New World via the Phoenician trade. These Israelites/Phoenicians mixed with the natives and that is where the genetic line comes from.

I read this thread to see who the first person to have a clue as to what happened would post. The Phoenicians and the Carthaginians (a little later) are key to the populating of remote areas with ancient Middle Eastern bloodlines.

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

No one was more likely than anyone else to extricate himself from the mass hell that the Nazis set in motion.

I am sorry to sound “glib” but I do not believe that. I know for a fact that Jews from all levels of society were captured and killed and a host of other horrific crimes. However, I cannot believe for one second that 50% of those killed were below average intelligence and 50% were above. It simply defies logic and reason as distasteful as it may be to discuss.

In addition, survival during the holocaust was certainly less dependent upon affluence as escape prior to the holocaust would have been. If even 2 in 10 bankers managed to pay their way out before the killings commenced, they would have doubled the rate for other survivors. When 90% of a population is killed even a tiny difference can make a large percentage change.”

Depending on where you lived, it was easier or harder or impossible to get out, if you were one of those who foresaw that the danger was greater than usual. How many do you think were clairvoyant and could anticipate a Holocaust? One of the main reasons that 9/11 succeeded, according to the 9/11 Report was “failure of imagination.” From my hearing and reading hundreds of firsthand accounts from survivors of the Holocaust, the factor that differentiated survivors from non-survivors was luck. Some were hiding in the forests, others were hidden by righteous gentiles. Intelligence wasn't the factor. Simpler peasant Jews understood better than higher society what the potential for evil was among their neighbors. A locked case is a locked cage.

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

A locked cage is a locked cage and hunger and unsanitary conditions and backbreaking work or hiding in a crack of space accelerate illness, disease and the end of the story.

[Godebert]

"Fortunately, 80% of the Jewish immigrants to the USA are Ashkenazi. "

Unfortunately, 80% of that same group vote straight democrat.

[Zionist Conspirator]

My Yemenite Siddur actually has more in common with the Ashkenazi than the Sefardi

Yes, I believe I have heard that before. Thank you.

[douginthearmy]

Intelligence wasn't the factor

I think you may have missed my point. I am not saying smarter people figured out a way to escape. The point I made was that people of means were more likely to escape. And people of means have a higher intelligence on average which is the discussion at hand. Even during the Nazi rule, Germany allowed emigration by Jews, but most countries would not take them. One of the ways to get out was by guarantee which was essentially a payment. Running up to the takeover of Poland many Jews escaped to the Soviet Union. If you had no money you would not have the means to pack up and move your family. Again, as I posted earlier, if even 2 in 10 rich men were able to escape that is double the average rate and would put upward pressure on average IQ.

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

Againg, I suggest you read The Hare with Amber Eyes, among other firsthand accounts. People of means were less likely than to leave before it was too late. If they were among the minority who owned factories or other thriving businesses, they perceived that they had a lot to lose by leaving it all behind and thought that they could whether whatever was coming as they had past pogroms, etc. It may seem counter intuitive to you, but that’s they way it was. You are right that people in Germany had more chance of leaving in the 1930s, had they decided to do so.