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In Reversal, Army Bans High-Performance Rifle Mags
Military.com ^ | May 25, 2012 | Matthew Cox

Posted on 05/26/2012 4:29:16 AM PDT by Timber Rattler

The Army has ordered that soldiers may use only government-issued magazines with their M4 carbines, a move that effectively bans one of the most dependable and widely used commercial-made magazines on today’s battlefield.

The past decade of war has spawned a wave of innovation in the commercial soldier weapons and equipment market. As a result, trigger-pullers in the Army, Marines and various service special operations communities now go to war armed with commercially designed kit that’s been tested under the most extreme combat conditions.

Near the top of such advancements is the PMAG polymer M4 magazine, introduced by Magpul Industries Corp. in 2007. Its rugged design has made it as one of the top performers in the small-arms accessory arena, according to combat veterans who credit the PMAG with drastically improving the reliability of the M4.

Despite the success of the PMAG, Army officials from the TACOM Life Cycle Management Command issued a “safety of use message” in April that placed it, and all other polymer magazines, on an unauthorized list.

This seems to be a complete policy reversal, since PMAGs are standard issue with the Army’s 75th Ranger Regiment and they have been routinely issued to infantry units before war-zone deployments.

(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: army; banglist; magazines; military; pmag; troops; usarmy
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Any ideas from our resident in-house military firearms experts?
1 posted on 05/26/2012 4:29:33 AM PDT by Timber Rattler
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To: Timber Rattler

G-d forbid that we have an unfair advantage over our enemies.


2 posted on 05/26/2012 4:39:49 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: Timber Rattler
CASTRATE the bastard that came up with this stump-headed muslim outreach obamunism plan! Magpul is the best... I have worn out barrels but never a Magpul. So much to reverse from that jug-eared communist, muslim and lover of fagism.

LLS

3 posted on 05/26/2012 4:44:06 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Timber Rattler

Follow the money trail. At the end I suspect you will find an Obama contributor who is involved in the manufacture of the issue mags.


4 posted on 05/26/2012 4:46:16 AM PDT by ChoobacKY
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To: Timber Rattler
This is not a surprise. The Union army didn't issue lever action rifles during the Civil War because an idiot general in charge of ordinance thought it would be a waste on ammunition. The Union would have won the war in short order with far less casualties if they weren't so stupid.
5 posted on 05/26/2012 4:52:09 AM PDT by HenpeckedCon (What pi$$es me off the most is that POS commie will get a State Funeral!)
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To: Timber Rattler

Thats an odd decision, then again normal military issue mags are just as reliable once you swap out the green followers for the enhanced magpul ones, and I suspect that is still OK to do.


6 posted on 05/26/2012 4:53:44 AM PDT by eXe (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: Timber Rattler
I have Magpul magazines as well as aluminum magazines from an official gov't vendor (ie. lowest cost), and there is no comparison. I would go absolutely nuts if the Obama regime wanted to send me to Afghanistan without the best equipment available.
7 posted on 05/26/2012 4:54:22 AM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Timber Rattler

Find out who makes the standard mags and dollars to ham and limas you will find a Friend of Obama that feels their ox is gored. And if not a FoO, then some long-serving Congresscritter with pull on the Armed Services committee.


8 posted on 05/26/2012 5:00:01 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Chen Guangcheng: Gutsy call, Obama /UltraMegaDrippingSarc)
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To: HenpeckedCon

Ordnance.

Yeah, I know. Picky, picky, picky!


9 posted on 05/26/2012 5:02:29 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Timber Rattler
Add this to the inane and insane Rules of Engagement our Warriors are subjected to; the "negotiations" with our enemies (the Tally-Ban); the release of Radical Islamic Jihadists captured on the field of battle from prisons in AfGan/; the scrubbing of ANY reference to Islam/Sharia/Jihad, etc from training material; the REFUSAL to recognize (and name) our enemies; the politicization and advancement of Multiculturalism and Political Correctness of our Armed Forces....etc. initiated by and/or meekly acquiescing thereto from Dear Leader and his advisers by the REMF, Armchair, Personnel in the Pentagon (ALL OF THE PRESENT JCS HAVING NEVER SERVED IN HARMS WAY) is a disgrace and disservice to our Men and Women who are putting it all on the line to keep us safe.

PRAY for those serving that He may keep them safe from the lunacy under which they must operate.

God Bless them and God Bless America.

10 posted on 05/26/2012 5:03:04 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: Timber Rattler

I wonder if this affects SOCOM? Anyone have any insight into how that works?


11 posted on 05/26/2012 5:04:03 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Travis McGee; Squantos; SLB; Future Snake Eater

Comments?


12 posted on 05/26/2012 5:05:16 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Daveinyork

I pray every day that we see another military man in the Oval Office. Alan West comes first to my mind. The days of Eisenhower and even Kennedy are long gone, and this limp-wristed bullshit being pushed on to our men and women is appalling.

I’m not one to pray for someone’s precipitous decline, but I’m hopeful for Obama’s. People like the faggot-in-chief should be jailed for crimes against America.


13 posted on 05/26/2012 5:05:49 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: FreedomPoster

That’s my Massachusetts skoolin’, what do you expect?


14 posted on 05/26/2012 5:08:14 AM PDT by HenpeckedCon (What pi$$es me off the most is that POS commie will get a State Funeral!)
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To: Timber Rattler

Every time an American soldier dies, the Muslim Kenyan Obama smiles and thanks Allah.


15 posted on 05/26/2012 5:27:02 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The so-called 'mainstream' media has gone from "biased" straight to "utterly surreal".)
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To: rarestia
This is not so much about the CiC, it's more about the entrenched REMF bureaucracy within the military. How many of those in the higher echelons of our command structure are life-long REMF's who spent their time in academy classes and command schools rather than in the field and have experience of using equipment under combat conditions?

Even more, how many of those in command are the military's version of a politician, who would sell his soul and his values and beliefs for advancement. How many "Good Conduct Medal" commanders do we have?

Could be a member of Congress or someone in the White House with connections to a contractor, or it could simply be "bean-counter logic."

Either way, it should not be occurring. Our troops deserve the best and only the very best equipment.
16 posted on 05/26/2012 5:29:57 AM PDT by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Daveinyork

That’s the Obama regime keeping Americans in harms way one regulation at a time.


17 posted on 05/26/2012 5:31:32 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Timber Rattler

They just want to make sure there’s enough for Obama’s civilian army.


18 posted on 05/26/2012 5:31:56 AM PDT by ebshumidors ( Marksmanship and YOUR heritage http://www.appleseedinfo.org)
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To: FreedomPoster

I wonder if this affects SOCOM? Anyone have any insight into how that works?

It would have no effect on SOCOM. My son was a MARSOC Operator for 5 years and they set their own guidelines and tested for their own needs.


19 posted on 05/26/2012 5:34:15 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: Timber Rattler

What’s interesting is that the Army is now running the second stage of its procurement program to find the replacement for the M4 and one of the likeliest contenders is the Remington ACR designed by Magpul.

The chief offender with M16 failures has always been the fault of the magazine, and the chief offenders in US military small arms procurement has always been the US Army. Thier idiot twitbag top level officers can’t even decide on camo patterns, uniforms, or if soldiers should be wearing berets or not.

Let the Marine Corps decide for the Army this time, for a change.


20 posted on 05/26/2012 5:39:03 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid (Semper Fi)
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To: Recon Dad

That was the answer I expected. Thanks.

That will really make the “line” guys mad, when they see their buddies in SOCOM billets using the gear they can’t use any more.

Of course, down range, I wonder if people will really enforce stuff like this. Afghanistan is a long way from TACOM Life Cycle Management Command.


21 posted on 05/26/2012 5:39:56 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: HenpeckedCon

“The Union army didn’t issue lever action rifles during the Civil War because an idiot general in charge of ordinance thought it would be a waste on ammunition.”

It was Congress, not a general, that decided to ban multi-fire guns from Army procurement. The thinking was that the soldiers would just fire lots of un-aimed rounds. If you read the book “On Killing; the psychological cost of learning to kill in combat and society” which examines Civil War battles in detail, you’ll see that Congress was right. Also, the lever action guns cost about $26 while the muzzle loaders cost from $4-8.

The way multi-fire rifles worked their way into combat was: a rich man would raise a regiment, equip them with his own money, declare himself a colonel and they’d all join together. Also, individual soldiers often brought their own uniforms and equipment.

Incidentally, the WWII Japanese never fielded a machine gun like the Tommy gun because the old generals running the show said no, they wanted every shot aimed.


22 posted on 05/26/2012 5:53:28 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Timber Rattler

Follow the MONEY it will lead to a corrupt politician!!


23 posted on 05/26/2012 6:05:37 AM PDT by garykfd (American by Birth, Southern by the Grace of God)
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To: FreedomPoster

First poly mag I used / tried was the Canadian issued mag. Traded a few with the troops from Cold Lake deployed to 1st Gulf war. It would “fuzz” up for a better word in the abrasive sand of the middle east. Increased the size of the dang thing in a mag well. Only GI metal mag I trusted or carried was made in Parsons Kansas. I kept cases of those in my gear lockers and always took spares along if possible. My 1911A1 Mags were and still are wilson rogers 8 round stainless.

The PMAG’s are all I have in my gear now as a civilian and a reserve sheriff deputy.

MagPul didn’t donate to the socialist rats is my opinion why their excellent product is being banned by the bean countin REMF’s.

I smell Surefire at play here as well. not sure as to the reliability of the new 60 & 100 round magazines they sell so won’t bad mouth em yet the more new and improved that shows up in a grunts gear the less happy his NCO’s are .....

Testing , trial and error are for the range and shoot house. Not combat.


24 posted on 05/26/2012 6:11:52 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Timber Rattler

what always irritates me about these articles is the only Army and Marines carry guns. I just got back from my year in Iraq and there are a lot of my fellow AF guys doing convoy and security forces work. Not to mention the Navy folks doing the same Army augmentation work. Rant off - this edict won’t stop soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines from self procuring top line gear. I know I sure as hell did. It is stupid not to. People are starting to arrive in theater with self purchased armor, mags, knives, vests, pouches, etc. oh and I carried magpul mags as a logistics advisor to the Iraqi air force. I would hope the folks that have to shoot everyday do the same.


25 posted on 05/26/2012 6:16:18 AM PDT by Rays_Dad (H. Clinton-Every man who looks at her is reminded of his first wife, even if he's never been married)
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To: FreedomPoster

It won’t. What SOCOM wants, SOCOM gets.


26 posted on 05/26/2012 6:26:42 AM PDT by Mathews (Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV))
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To: Gen.Blather

That kind of thinking shows how little policymakers care for their own soldiers.

Bullets are,or at least should be, much cheaper than soldiers’ lives!

The Southern Confederacy didn’t have the manufacturing base to make thousands of lever-action arms or even sufficient revolvers,else I believe thay would have used those weapons.The Union soldier was on a political mission,the Southern was defending his home..


27 posted on 05/26/2012 6:28:49 AM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: FreedomPoster

Typical “Big Army” stupidity.

Up there with painting big red “Crusader Crosses” on unarmed casevac helos in A-stan, just to keep the Army bureaucrats in the medical branch content with their own helicopter empire.

I look for the USMC to say, “Sorry, we’re not going to crush our PMAGs.” And the Rangers too, probably.


28 posted on 05/26/2012 6:29:13 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Daveinyork
>>> "G-d forbid that we have an unfair advantage over our enemies." <<<

Got to ask you, Dave ----->Why do you (and a few other FReepers) feel you have to use " G-d " in your posts, instead of GOD? This is expected in the politically correct mainstream media, but why here???

Just curious !!

29 posted on 05/26/2012 6:38:24 AM PDT by jmax (Be warned....I'm armed. Round is chambered, full magazine is inserted, safety is off.)
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To: Travis McGee

Yeah, I’ve been following the red cross thing via Michael Yon. I’m amazed that is still going on.


30 posted on 05/26/2012 6:47:45 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: HenpeckedCon

One of the mistakes leading to the Little Bighorn massacre was the fact that the brass didn’t want the soldiers wasting ammo with repeaters.


31 posted on 05/26/2012 6:49:23 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Timber Rattler
This thread has just added to the FreeRepublic "bang list" (firearms interest list) by adding the keyword "banglist".

Any time a firearms-related thread is created on FreeRepublic, please be sure to add the "banglist" keyword to it so that interested FReepers don't miss it. Just a suggestion.

Let Freedom Ring,

Gun Facts v6!

Click the pic to go to the Gun Facts v6 download page!

32 posted on 05/26/2012 6:52:43 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: jmax

It’s a Jewish tradition of not using the Hebrew name for God, it has nothing to do with political correctness.


33 posted on 05/26/2012 6:53:10 AM PDT by MikeSteelBe (Austrian Hitler was, as the Halfrican Hitler does.)
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To: HenpeckedCon

“The Union army didn’t issue lever action rifles during the Civil War because an idiot general in charge of ordinance thought it would be a waste on ammunition.”

That was carried on after the Civil War. Custer’s troopers at the Little Big Horn were issued trapdoor Springfield’s in which the shells sometimes jammed, and had to be dug out.

He also left his gatling guns behind because the slowed them down, having to be pulled by horses.


34 posted on 05/26/2012 6:57:30 AM PDT by MikeSteelBe (Austrian Hitler was, as the Halfrican Hitler does.)
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To: FreedomPoster

Yep. The good commanders will turn their heads the other way over something like this.


35 posted on 05/26/2012 6:59:10 AM PDT by 2111USMC (Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.)
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To: Travis McGee

Long ago and far away the response to such foolishness was always the same:

“What are they going to do, send me to Viet Nam?”

An ornery lot and they were armed to the teeth.


36 posted on 05/26/2012 6:59:54 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: NonValueAdded

I believe Okay Industries make the mill approved mags.

http://www.okayind.com/


37 posted on 05/26/2012 7:02:50 AM PDT by davetex (Sick of moochers)
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To: HenpeckedCon

****because an idiot general in charge of ordinance****

“That old fogey, Ripley!” as the newspapers of the time called him.


38 posted on 05/26/2012 7:13:23 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Anything Goes, Phantom of the Opera, Nice work if you cn get it, EVITA. On BROADWAY last week.!)
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To: MikeSteelBe

Right!

IIRC, Jewish folks use “YHWH”, called the “Tetragammaton” (Greek = Four Letters), as the Name of God. Ancient Hebrew writing does not use vowels.

YHWH is usually translated as Jehovah or Yahweh.

Folks who write G_d are just being reverent.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_Two/Introduction/introduction.html

“Unlike English, however, the Hebrew alphabet is a consonantal one: there are no separate letters for vowels in the written alphabet (though some letters, in particular Vav and Yod, can function as “consonantal vowels”). This does not mean, of course, that vowels are not used in Hebrew. In fact, it is impossible to say anything at all without vowel sounds. But ancient Hebrew contained no written vowels as distinct letter forms: the actual vowel sounds were “added” to the reading by means of oral tradition and long-established usage.

As an experiment, try reading the following:

Lv th Lrd yr Gd wth ll yr hrt

If you were able to “figure out” that the above string of letters reads “Love the Lord your God with all your heart,” (Deut 6:5), then you might be able to see how a language could be entirely made up of consonants—with the reader supplying the missing vowels.”


39 posted on 05/26/2012 7:14:24 AM PDT by BwanaNdege (Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: rarestia

You are way too lenient! Our so called leader has done a way better job than the terrorists who “Only” brought down the twin towers, were as he along with his Kameraden is in the process of bringing down the whole country.


40 posted on 05/26/2012 7:17:00 AM PDT by saintgermaine
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To: rarestia

you forgot Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2 + Carter “peacetime” Navy


41 posted on 05/26/2012 7:21:28 AM PDT by capt B
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To: MikeSteelBe; BwanaNdege
>>> "Folks who write G_d are just being reverent." <<<

>> "It’s a Jewish tradition of not using the Hebrew name for God, it has nothing to do with political correctness." <<<

Thank you both for the explanation. Makes me feel better.

42 posted on 05/26/2012 7:29:40 AM PDT by jmax (Be warned....I'm armed. Round is chambered, full magazine is inserted, safety is off.)
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To: BwanaNdege

Also, the term Xmas does not come from political correctness, either.

The robes on the pastor at the Lutheran church I grew up in had “XP” on them.

It’s Greek for the first two letters of Christ, “Chi”and “Rho”.

X, or “Chi” refers to Christ, not “X-ing” out Christ.


43 posted on 05/26/2012 7:35:05 AM PDT by MikeSteelBe (Austrian Hitler was, as the Halfrican Hitler does.)
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To: HenpeckedCon
The Union would have won the war in short order with far less casualties if they weren't so stupid.

The South would have procured lever action also. It would have been an escalation.

44 posted on 05/26/2012 7:37:49 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Timber Rattler

Some contractor didn’t like the competition. Some General didn’t like the chance for a fat retirement going out the window.

SAD


45 posted on 05/26/2012 7:55:05 AM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (We're an Oligrachy...Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. Thomas Jefferson)
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To: capt B

I realized that after the fact. Was thinking more combat veteran than just service veteran, not that one is greater than the other.


46 posted on 05/26/2012 8:00:27 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Squantos

Is there a certain model of Magpul in 5.56 that is better than the others? I see them selling for about $15 at Cheaper Than Dirt. I had a plastic 30 round Thermold that came with my first AR and it caused my gun to jam at least once every time I used that magazine so I swore off plastics. I replaced the magazine with NHMTG’s and haven’t had a problem since.


47 posted on 05/26/2012 8:02:21 AM PDT by Sawdring
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To: FreedomPoster

Doesn’t seem to be any reason given for the ban. I’ve never used a PMAG, but I’ve always heard great things about them. If this isn’t about political contributions or some other such backroom deals, I’ll be shocked.


48 posted on 05/26/2012 8:07:29 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Timber Rattler

They’ll just use the Magpul anyhow.


49 posted on 05/26/2012 8:28:58 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Congrats to Ted Kennedy! He's been sober for two years now!!)
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To: Gen.Blather

The Japanese did indeed have a submachine gun, the Type 100.

It was never taken seriously (this was an army still in love with the cold steel of swords and bayonets), never produced in large numbers despite the demand for it in the jungle, and it was underpowered beyond words.


50 posted on 05/26/2012 8:34:57 AM PDT by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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