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George Zimmerman: Did he shoot Trayvon Martin in self defense? (Video walkthrough of scene)
WJLA-TV ^ | Thursday, May 10, 2012 | Scott Thuman

Posted on 05/10/2012 9:18:10 PM PDT by kristinn

George Zimmerman admits he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. But was it self defense?

ABC7's Scott Thuman went inside the Sanford, Florida neighborhood where the shooting happened.

He talks with Frank Taaffe, a friend of Zimmerman's, and a former neighborhood watch volunteer himself, who says it was self defense.

Taafe shows us what he says eye witnesses told him happened that night in the Twin Lakes neighborhood.

In this now infamous neighborhood, there's almost as much foot traffic as vehicle traffic. There's a cut-through frequented by kids, some following the very same footsteps as Trayvon Martin.

But in an area hit by thieves, up to 11 times in 14 months, and where property value has plummeted, there was also plenty of suspicion.

"He's parked here, the vehicles in this direction and he watches Trayvon come down here, stares at him out his window and according to George he circles around the car here and he heads back off in this direction here," Taaffe says.

(Excerpt) Read more at wjla.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: blackkk; florida; georgezimmerman; lmm; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman; zimmermanevidence; zimmermantimeline
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Click the link for the video report that features Frank Taafe giving the reporter a walkthrough of the locations of the Zimmerman-Martin incident.
1 posted on 05/10/2012 9:18:13 PM PDT by kristinn
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To: kristinn
I want to see those crazy Chinese animators do this scene, and show Trayvon swinging his Arizona tea bottle at Zimm and flashing his gold teeth.
2 posted on 05/10/2012 9:27:11 PM PDT by montag813
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To: kristinn

I believe ot was a case of self defense.

Zimmerman noticed Martin and called it in to 911 and began following him.

Martin noticed him following and told his girlfriend...and didn’t like it one bit.

At this point neither Martin or Zimmerman had broken any laws at all.

Zimmerman was told by the 911 dispatcher he shouldn’t follow and I believe Zimmerman stopped trying to follow at that point because he’d lost site of Martin anyway. He continued to the next row of apartments to get an address like he told the dispatcher he would.

In the mean time, I believe Martin had circled back and was now watching Zimmerman. It was a mistake (but not illegal) and he should have just gone on home.

Once Zimmerman got the address he was returning to his car when he was confronted by Martin.

Martin asked him if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no. Martin said he did now and punched Zimmwerman in the nose, breaking it and knocking Zimmerman to the ground. At this point, the first illegal act had occurred with Martin assaulting Zimmerman.

Then, while he was down, Martin got on top og him, grabbed him by the hair, and began beating his head against the sidewalk. The assault now became a more serious crime, with clear intent to do major bodliy harm, perhaps even to kill.

Zimmerman began screaming. This is when the witness came out and saw what was going on. The witness indicated to them that he was going to call 911, also indicating in testimony that it was Zimmerman who was screaming, and Martin who was on top of Zimmerman.

When the witness went back inside, and the beating continued. Zimmerman feared for his life. He pulled his gun and shot Martin. We do not know if there was a struggle for the gun. We do know that Martin was shot once in the chest from close range.

I do not believe that what Zimmerman did was illegal at all. He was defending his life and had waited, IMHO, longer than I would have to use his weapon.

The witness came back out after calling and hearing the shot, and saw Martin down and Zimmerman standing over him...who then told him to get help.

Zimmerman had not run away. He never acted like he was the assailant.

I believe this is what happened.

I believe the evidence we have heard of to date supports this scenario.

I believe this is why the Stanford Police did not charge Zimmerman.

I also believe that if Zimmerman gets a fair trial, he will be acqitted of both 2nd degree murder and manslaughter.

I also believe when he is acquitted, that Holder will bring Zimmerman up on Civil Rights charges and go through the entire charade again.

America at the Crossroads of History
http://www.jeffhead.com/crossroads.htm


3 posted on 05/10/2012 9:40:34 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (wwwOh ...now I see..dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: kristinn

I believe ot was a case of self defense.

Zimmerman noticed Martin and called it in to 911 and began following him.

Martin noticed him following and told his girlfriend...and didn’t like it one bit.

At this point neither Martin or Zimmerman had broken any laws at all.

Zimmerman was told by the 911 dispatcher he shouldn’t follow and I believe Zimmerman stopped trying to follow at that point because he’d lost site of Martin anyway. He continued to the next row of apartments to get an address like he told the dispatcher he would.

In the mean time, I believe Martin had circled back and was now watching Zimmerman. It was a mistake (but not illegal) and he should have just gone on home.

Once Zimmerman got the address he was returning to his car when he was confronted by Martin.

Martin asked him if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no. Martin said he did now and punched Zimmwerman in the nose, breaking it and knocking Zimmerman to the ground. At this point, the first illegal act had occurred with Martin assaulting Zimmerman.

Then, while he was down, Martin got on top og him, grabbed him by the hair, and began beating his head against the sidewalk. The assault now became a more serious crime, with clear intent to do major bodliy harm, perhaps even to kill.

Zimmerman began screaming. This is when the witness came out and saw what was going on. The witness indicated to them that he was going to call 911, also indicating in testimony that it was Zimmerman who was screaming, and Martin who was on top of Zimmerman.

When the witness went back inside, and the beating continued. Zimmerman feared for his life. He pulled his gun and shot Martin. We do not know if there was a struggle for the gun. We do know that Martin was shot once in the chest from close range.

I do not believe that what Zimmerman did was illegal at all. He was defending his life and had waited, IMHO, longer than I would have to use his weapon.

The witness came back out after calling and hearing the shot, and saw Martin down and Zimmerman standing over him...who then told him to get help.

Zimmerman had not run away. He never acted like he was the assailant.

I believe this is what happened.

I believe the evidence we have heard of to date supports this scenario.

I believe this is why the Stanford Police did not charge Zimmerman.

I also believe that if Zimmerman gets a fair trial, he will be acqitted of both 2nd degree murder and manslaughter.

I also believe when he is acquitted, that Holder will bring Zimmerman up on Civil Rights charges and go through the entire charade again.

America at the Crossroads of History
http://www.jeffhead.com/crossroads.htm


4 posted on 05/10/2012 9:40:34 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (wwwOh ...now I see..dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: kristinn
I noticed that ABC clipped the audio of the Zimmerman
police call.

Right after the officer told Zimmermann “we don't need you to do that” Zimmerman responded “OK”.

5 posted on 05/10/2012 9:46:18 PM PDT by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: kristinn; Me; onyx; stephenjohnbanker; hoosiermama; maggief; Liz; STARWISE; mkjessup; ...

For tomorry, when I’m not tired.


6 posted on 05/10/2012 9:50:36 PM PDT by onyx (SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC, DONATE MONTHLY. If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, let me know.)
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To: onyx

ditto


7 posted on 05/10/2012 10:09:36 PM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: Jeff Head
Zimmerman probably used self defense, but I wouldn't be surprised if the forensic report contradicts some of his statements.

I think Martin and Zimmerman separated after Martin was beating on top of him. Then, from a distance, GZ shot Martin.

I don't think the State would go after him, unless they had some form of forensic science to back up their Prosecution.

If all they are relying on is anything but science, then they are gonna lose anyway.

But, they[State] could be that stupid.

8 posted on 05/10/2012 10:13:34 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: kristinn

If you are going to have a gated community, have controlled access and you wouldn’t have so much crime in the first place. This place offered the illusion of security but let everybody and anybody walk through.


9 posted on 05/10/2012 10:18:53 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: Theoria

You are absolutely wrong. We can excuse you if you are ignorant on weaponry. But I doubt you’re that ignorant. The condition of Zimmerman’s semi-auto when police arrived makes you out to be wrong and it appears pushing an agenda. Since it is 99.99% unlikely that Zimmerman would be holding his weapon by the barrel while the other gripped the butt and pulled the trigger, it is an excellent guess that Martin had ahold of the barrel end when the weapon discharged into his chest. How long do you guess Martin’s arms were?


10 posted on 05/10/2012 10:29:05 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
'The condition of Zimmerman’s semi-auto when police arrived '

What do you mean 'condition' of it? Malfunction, jam, etc? I'm all ears.

11 posted on 05/10/2012 10:31:39 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Jeff Head
I also believe when he is acquitted, that Holder will bring Zimmerman up on Civil Rights charges and go through the entire charade again.

Only if Obama gets a second term. One more reason to vote for Myth instead letting Obama win. If nothing else, do it for George...

12 posted on 05/10/2012 10:36:18 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Theoria

You’re showing you haven’t done your homework before spouting off. I’m not in the mood to explain the police report to you.


13 posted on 05/10/2012 10:37:38 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Theoria

All indications are that Martin was shot at close range. From where the witness saw them immediately before the shot to where he saw them when he came outside.

That witness account lines up with Zimmerman’s story, which is clearly that he shot him at close range.

The forensics will amke it all clear, and again, my guess is that this is why the local Police decided not to press charges.

The State AG is a political position...and the politics involved in this case are huge. I believe the State felt compelled to press charges because of the pressure...and I believe the AG over-reached in their charges.

Time will tell.


14 posted on 05/10/2012 10:38:29 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (wwwOh ...now I see..dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: MHGinTN
I have read the ‘initial’ report many times. Unless, you have an actual source, then its pure speculation. The report made no mention or information of a malfunction, or impaired firearm. If you are also relying on another police or Gov’t report that I don't know of then I will gladly change my opinion or favor your pov.
15 posted on 05/10/2012 10:40:37 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria
I think Martin and Zimmerman separated after Martin was beating on top of him. Then, from a distance, GZ shot Martin.

WTF would you think that?

16 posted on 05/10/2012 10:41:16 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: iowamark
If you are going to have a gated community, have controlled access and you wouldn’t have so much crime in the first place. This place offered the illusion of security but let everybody and anybody walk through.

Lots of places have security guards and burglaries, including luxury condos. This was a working class condo complex with insufficient funds to pay for full-time security, which would probably run into the hundreds of thousands a year, including liability insurance, adding a couple of grand to everyone's annual HOA fees.

17 posted on 05/10/2012 10:41:48 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Theoria

What kind of distance? 2 feet?


18 posted on 05/10/2012 10:42:21 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: kristinn

George Zimmerman’s life is essentially over. If he’s found innocent after a trial, Eric Holder will go after him for commiting a hate crime.

He may as well shoot himself and get it over with because he’ll be dogged and hunted and tortured for the rest of his life. That is, if he’s ever allowed to walk free after the feds have had their way with him. This whole deal stinks!


19 posted on 05/10/2012 10:45:18 PM PDT by Humidston (For the first time in my adult life I FEAR my government.)
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To: mylife

I don’t know. Enough of a distance that the blood from the close range of the blast was not absorbed on GZ or his weapon.


20 posted on 05/10/2012 10:45:45 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: mylife

Not beyond arms length. The fired empty was still in the firing chamber, so the slide was prevented from extracting and reloading a round. The poster trying to float this latest crap is trying to parlay the lack of average readers’ gun knowledge.


21 posted on 05/10/2012 10:47:32 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Theoria

All that matters is if Martin was far enough away that Zimmerman could have escaped, and even that is questionable if Zimmerman had been attacked and was dazed.

I don’t think I would shoot beyond 25 feet just because it gets hard to explain.


22 posted on 05/10/2012 10:51:26 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Theoria
I think Martin and Zimmerman separated after Martin was beating on top of him. Then, from a distance, GZ shot Martin. I don't think the State would go after him, unless they had some form of forensic science to back up their Prosecution.

100% speculation that goes against everything publically known about the incident.

23 posted on 05/10/2012 10:52:40 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: MHGinTN

Sounds like it was up front and personal to me.


24 posted on 05/10/2012 10:53:19 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife
No, I think the shooting was justified. I think if you are getting beat, you have to put someone down. The threat is there.

My apologies if there are other police reports out there.

25 posted on 05/10/2012 10:55:38 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

No worries, Its late.


26 posted on 05/10/2012 10:58:36 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: MHGinTN
'The fired empty was still in the firing chamber'

You got a link, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

27 posted on 05/10/2012 11:00:47 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

I’m not sure there would have been significant blood where the bullet entered. The bleeding probably would have been internal and on the exit side.


28 posted on 05/10/2012 11:13:17 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Theoria
What he is saying is the semi-auto Keltec had an expended case in the chamber which means the slide did not eject it and cycle a new round into the chamber. The only way for that to happen is for someone to have their hand wrapped around the pistol as in a struggle for control of the weapon. This agrees with Georges’ statement that Martin was trying to gain control of the weapon.
29 posted on 05/10/2012 11:13:42 PM PDT by Polynikes (Hakkaa Palle)
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To: Polynikes
'What he is saying is the semi-auto Keltec had an expended case in the chamber which means the slide did not eject it and cycle a new round into the chamber. '

Yes, I understand. I've shot and used a PF9 several times. But, I've not read a police report that has any info about the weapon. Just a cursory report of what type. Nothing about a round in the chamber. If could have happened like that or it could be a meme.

I've seen it come up several times, but no source to it other than speculation. If someone has seen a source or report, then I will favor their pov.

And, I apologize if I'm behind the curve on said report.

30 posted on 05/10/2012 11:18:37 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

I’m googling around and most of the info I’m seeing says that bullet entrance wounds don’t bleed much:

http://www.centrahealth.com/health-library/p/1178-puncture-wounds

If your contention is that Z had to have shot Martin from a distance because there was no blood on him, I think you’re on shaky ground.


31 posted on 05/10/2012 11:30:38 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: kristinn

....


32 posted on 05/10/2012 11:31:21 PM PDT by Kinder Gentler Machinegun Hand
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To: kristinn

I’m afraid that if Zimmerman gets off, that moron Holder is going to file ANOTHER lawsuit against Arizonans and Sheriff Joe Arpaio.


33 posted on 05/10/2012 11:32:47 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Dumb, dependent and Democrat is no way to go through life. - Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas)
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To: Theoria

Or do you have evidence that blood splatters forward from a bullet wound like in a Hollywood movie? If so, please present it and maybe we’ll favor your pov.


34 posted on 05/10/2012 11:35:59 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Yardstick
Not everything is the same. I've seen different types of wounds, some small, some very large from being shot.

I'm not doubting that GZ is innocent, just some of it don't make sense.

35 posted on 05/10/2012 11:39:19 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

But it do make sense. Most bullet entrance wounds from a pistol are puncture wounds that don’t bleed much. So the apparent lack of blood splatter on Zimmerman is to be expected.


36 posted on 05/10/2012 11:55:27 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Yardstick

Thanks, night.


37 posted on 05/11/2012 12:01:32 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

What makes you think that blood spurts forward from a close range “blast”?

Movies?

Do you know how small a 9mm bullet is?

You know, you are a prime example of the reason self defense shootings shouldn’t go to trial, because there are FAR TOO many people who think they know everything but in actuality KNOW NOTHING.

Would not want you on my jury or anyone else’s jury at all.


38 posted on 05/11/2012 12:02:13 AM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: chris37
I've was in the military long enough to know that not all cheat trauma is hollywood. As for the jury aspect, I've said he's innocent until science proves otherwise. If the State went ahead with their Prosecution without anything forensic to back up their claim, then the citizens of Florida will be paying GZ for his ordeal.
39 posted on 05/11/2012 12:27:09 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria
Gun that killed Florida teen was fired once not twice by crime watch volunteer

Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman’s handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.

There is the source of this info. No, the link there won't work because the Boston Herald and all other publications have scrubbed this story from the net. But it's not a "meme" made up by FReepers and that's very insulting and disgusting to even suggest that.

Here is another respected author who talks about it so he read the report too.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN AND TRAYVON MARTIN: WHAT WE DON’T KNOW Massad Ayoob

40 posted on 05/11/2012 12:44:11 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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Here is the same article still available at the Seattle Times.

Gun that killed Florida teen was fired once, not twice

41 posted on 05/11/2012 12:54:39 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: MHGinTN

Actually the empty case wasn’t in the chamber. The chamber was empty.


42 posted on 05/11/2012 12:58:06 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Theoria
IF it was from a distance after Trayvee was on top of George pounding his brains out, they why wasn't T shot in the BACK?

He was on top and if he got off and left/fled, he would have been shot in the back.

Even your speculation is faulty.

43 posted on 05/11/2012 1:04:07 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: TigersEye
I brought up what Police report indicated the impaired gun. You proved me with speculation that has no public domain document. I'm aware of Ayoob and respect him greatly. He does not provide a source, what we are talking about was the FReeper said was in the police report.

Now if you want to keep repeating the 'meme' that there was a malfunction. Continue, but it wasn't in the police report. It could have happened and that was relayed to reporters, but it wasn't in the report!

See the problem? You keep repeating speculation, call it that, I speculate, but don't link the jam to any police report without a source.

44 posted on 05/11/2012 1:14:20 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

Been doing a little searching on the “round in chamber” question. I found one blog making that claim, but also found another one quoting a Boston Herald story saying an expended round was found at scene. That was my recollection, but haven’t found the document again. The original police report says nothing either way. The scene tech’s report should be released as part of the discovery in coming days, though there’s still a delay possible because the iss ue of redaction of witness names hasn’t been resolved completely.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/robert-farago/george-zimmerman-shot-trayvon-martin-once/

Also found some statements about the magazine being full, but that’s subject to dual interpretations.


45 posted on 05/11/2012 1:15:20 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: Theoria

Apparently you can’t read. You really has a smell, n00b.


46 posted on 05/11/2012 1:15:47 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: ArmstedFragg
Gun that killed Florida teen was fired once, not twice

Put that in a search engine and you will find numerous national publications that carried the story. Like the Seattle Times version I linked above.

47 posted on 05/11/2012 1:17:19 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Look, I’m not denying that could have happened. But, no report has indicated that it was impaired.


48 posted on 05/11/2012 1:19:50 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Theoria

My guess is that you’re a retread.


49 posted on 05/11/2012 1:21:16 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

If a round was loaded, then a full magazine was inserted, firing one round would result in in the casing being ejected, then a round loaded from the magazine into the chamber leaving one missing from the magazine. I think that’s likely to be the interpretation of the statement you cited. Note they’re talking “bullet” in the chamber, not casing.


50 posted on 05/11/2012 1:21:46 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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