“Leading from Behind” On Same Sex Marriage:

Townhall.com ^ | May 10, 2012 | Hugh Hewitt

[Darren McCarty]

LOL. I was thinking a scene from Slap Shot.

"You son looks like a fag to me."

"You better get married again or he's going to wind up with somebody's blank in his blank before you can say Jack Robinson!"

[dfwgator]

They’d never get away with that scene today.

[newzjunkey]

He's following Biden who is following Dick Cheney years after the fact.

There's no leadership here from either Dem. They're a joke.

[Darren McCarty]

They’d never get away with that scene today.

I can see the reaction right now.

"How dare you! How dare you!"

[Elsie]

Just interested in your opinion here: are the polygamous wives-and-comcubines arrangements typical of the Old Testament patriarchs considered marital?

Instead of my 'opinion'; I'll quote Scripture:

Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

(Wife; not WIVES)

Were multiple wives SANCTIONED by GOD?

1 Kings 11:1-3 reports,

But King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh: women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, and Hittites; from the nations of whom the LORD had said to the children of Israel,

“You shall not intermarry with them, nor they with you. Surely they will turn away your hearts after their gods.”

Solomon clung to these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.

The story of Onan is about the closest thing I could find in the OT that mentions another wife. But I could not find that the practice was institutued at GOD's command.

---

And is there a specific Biblical command that polygamy shall now be banned, and only monogamy recognized?

In the Bible and also in the Book of MORMON we find:

1 Timothy 3:2-3
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

Titus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

 

---

 

THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

 

[Elsie]

They’d never get away with that scene today.

Try to find a show on TV that does NOT have a fag in it!

[Mrs. Don-o]

Yes. The majority of heterosexuals deny that there is anything so very indispensible about the connection beteween sex and fertility. They have no objection to Kathleen Sebelius' assertion that contraception is a form of "preventive healthcare," i.e. it prevents normal sex, which is normally procreative, and treats it (normal physiological functiuon) as if it were a disease or disorder to be suppressed.

With that kind of attitude, you can see the (twisted) logic of gay marriage: it's the same as straight marriage because it's all about two adults and their mutual satisfaction. Nothing there that could pull them beyond egotism-for-two, nothing pregnancy-related going on here. And as a bonus, they don't even need plugs, rubbers, sprays, jellies, jams, pills: they're already flawlessly contracepted! Perfect DINKs! (Double Income, No Kids.)

/rant

[HiTech RedNeck]

Even serious polygamy would be better than this. It did not use to be considered declasse for a king, say, to have children through concubines as well as through the queen.

[HiTech RedNeck]

It’s a New Testament ideal. (The book of Mormon borrows New Testament concepts and casts them in an Old Testament style.)

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you for those good references, Elsie.

I absolutely agree with monogamy, but --- as I'm sure you know --- there are some “Sripture-alone” people who say Scripture doesn’t forbid polygamy..

This is not my argument, it is theirs:

The first polygamist mentioned in the Bible is Lamech, whose two wives were Adah and Zillah (Gen 4:19).

Abraham's three wives were Sarah, and concubines Hagar and Keturah, who are also referred to as "wives" in other parts of the Bible. (Gen 25:6).

Jacob's first two wives are the sisters Leah and Rachel (Gen 29:28) and despite an oath with their father Laban to not take any additional wives, he took Bilhah (Gen 30:4) and Zilpah (Gen 30:9).

Moses' two wives were Zipporah (Ex 2:21, Ex 18:1-6) and an Ethiopian woman (Num 12:1), who Moses was permitted to marry by God, despite ALL the rest of his people being forbidden to take a foreign wife (because foreigners were pagan). Interestingly enough, Aaron and Miriam were punished for disapproving of Moses' forbidden marriage.

Gideon "had many wives" (Judges 8:29-32).

David’s five named wives were Michal, Abigail, Ahinoam, Eglah, and of course, Bathsheba. David also took "more wives and concubines" (2 Sam 5:13) The prophet Nathan, confronting David with the murder of Uriah, said that God would have given David more wives if he had wanted them.(2 Samuel 12:8)

In support of polygamy, the Bible gives rules concerning the taking of multiple wives; noting that "If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights,(Exodus 21:10) and making it an obligation for men to marry the widow of a deceased brother.(Deuteronomy 25).

And even though Genesis says that a man cleaves to his wife (singular) and they become one flesh, it doesn't say he can't be one flesh with more than one woman. Otherwise you'd have to say that the women called "wives" of David and Jacob and so forth weren't really wives, which raises the question of, is the Bible mistaken when it calls them wives?

In the Bible marriages to additional spouses are considered valid. If this is not true, then there is a theological problem with the lineage of Jesus Christ which does not always go through the first wife. For instance, his genealogy in Matthew's Gospel says he was he descendant of David from Bathsheba.

The Jews themselves didn’t see Jewish Scrupture as requiring mongamy. Polygamy was not banned in the Jewish community until about 1000 A.D. by Rabbi Gershom. They knew what Genesis said about "one flesh," but they thought a man could be "one flesh" with a number of wives. Neither does the New Testament explicitly ban polygamy. The job-descriptions you quoted from the Epistles don't say that the one-wife requrement is for everyone, just for deacons, overseers, and elders.

Once again, this is not my argument. I am strictly pro-monogamy. Polygamy disappeared wherever Christianity was established. Why? Because Tertullian, Augustine, and other early Fathers of the Church, interpreted the Scriptures differently than than the Jews of their own time, and differently than Moses and David did. I am a monogamist because of the Church.

[Mrs. Don-o]

That's an interesting point. In orderly, stable concubinage at least the royal mistresses and bastards, bless them, were provided for. I think of the out-of-wedlock Don John of Austria, the hero of Lepanto. I also think of Henry VIII's illegitimate son, Henry FitzRoy, who was made Duke of Richmond and who (if he had lived) would have been allowed to become king under the English Parliament's Succession Act.

I can't approve concubinage, but at least it wasn't straight out perverted. And it was better than Henry's later policy of beheading one wife so he could ("legitimately") marry the next one.

[CatherineofAragon]

"Try to find a show on TV that does NOT have a fag in it!"

That's the truth. Even my beloved Tudors had THREE of them in it (albeit very briefly, thank God).

A historical drama, circa five hundred years ago, and they would have had you believe it was the Castro District.

[CatherineofAragon]

"And it was better than Henry's later policy of beheading one wife so he could ("legitimately") marry the next one."

Ahem.....

[Mrs. Don-o]

I always liked Catherine :o)

[Elsie]

Abraham's three wives were Sarah, and concubines Hagar and Keturah, who are also referred to as "wives" in other parts of the Bible. (Gen 25:6).

But not at the same time.

MORMONism LIES and says that GOD told Abram to take HAGAR as a wife. The bible CLEARLY shows that Sari pushed her onto Abram. (and a guy is gonna say "no!"? wink-wink).

Sari ran her off into the desert.

Some time later; Abraham married Keturah after the death of Sarah.

[Elsie]

I am a monogamist because of the Church.

I am one because I want to live longer!!

[Elsie]

"And it was better than Henry's later policy of beheading one wife so he could ("legitimately") marry the next one."

Did SOMEone mention BEHEADING???

---

 

The gruesome be headings of some 40 Ute corpses in 1850, heads stacked in boxes,

and hung by their long hair from the eves of buildings at Fort Utah,

 has long been ignored, “You didn’t see the Indians beheading the Mormons.”

 

-- Historian Robert Carter

[CatherineofAragon]

LOL, very kind of you!

[CatherineofAragon]

"Did SOMEone mention BEHEADING???"

LOL (wink)

[Elsie]

Genesis 19:4-5, 9

4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

 

⁹ “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.