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Hamels' suspension 'too light,' says Leyland
CSN Philly ^ | May 8, 2012, 12:00 pm | Staff

Posted on 05/09/2012 9:53:05 AM PDT by TBP

If there's anyone who should be familiar with the kind of throwback, old-school baseball Cole Hamels discussed after intentionally hitting Nationals rookie Bryce Harper with a pitch Sunday night, it's Tigers manager Jim Leyland.

Leyland, a baseball lifer, has managed in 3,203 games since 1986 -- when Hamels was just 3. But even Leyland's joining the chorus of critics displeased by Hamels' actions.

During his regular pregame radio show Monday night, he characterized Hamels' five-game suspension as being "way too light," and, according to MLB.com, suggested 15 games would have been more appropriate.

(Excerpt) Read more at csnphilly.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: baseball; chat; hamels; leyland; mlb; sports
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I agree with Leyland. An unprovoked hit on a player is one of the most classless, gutless acts I've seen in many years of watching baseball.
1 posted on 05/09/2012 9:53:11 AM PDT by TBP
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To: TBP

Leyland got tossed out of a game last night. He’s a no nonsense old school manager who is probably as beloved by Tiger fans as Sparky was.

A few years back an ump gave Magglio Ordonez a shove which is a major no no. Leyland was mad that the ump didn’t get the same suspension any player would get for the same.


2 posted on 05/09/2012 9:59:01 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: TBP

A Five-Game Suspension on a starting pitcher is nothing. They pitch every fifth day anyways. He should miss 5 starts which is about 30 games.


3 posted on 05/09/2012 10:01:01 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: TBP

A solution in search of a problem?

I don’t recall hearing of anyone being seriously injured from an intentional beanball. A little headhunting in baseball never hurt anyone. Keeps the hitters honest.

SnakeDoc


4 posted on 05/09/2012 10:01:15 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens, Justified)
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To: TBP

I wonder if there’s any bounty money involved here.


5 posted on 05/09/2012 10:02:17 AM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: TBP

Hammel, rhymes with, needs to get that arm under control!


6 posted on 05/09/2012 10:04:26 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: SnakeDoctor
I don’t recall hearing of anyone being seriously injured from an intentional beanball. A little headhunting in baseball never hurt anyone. Keeps the hitters honest.

There are many, Don Zimmer is one of them.

7 posted on 05/09/2012 10:04:47 AM PDT by frogjerk (OBAMA NOV 2012 = HORSEMEAT)
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To: SnakeDoctor
I don’t recall hearing of anyone being seriously injured from an intentional beanball.

Ever hear of Tony Conigliaro?

8 posted on 05/09/2012 10:05:03 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Ray Chapman died after being beaned.


9 posted on 05/09/2012 10:05:27 AM PDT by frogjerk (OBAMA NOV 2012 = HORSEMEAT)
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To: SnakeDoctor
From Wikipedia:

Several players' careers have been impaired or derailed after being struck with a beanball. Hall of Famer Mickey Cochrane was knocked unconscious for ten days in 1937, and never played another game. In 1941, Dodgers outfielder Pete Reiser was hospitalized for a month, one of numerous injuries which shortened his career. Lou Boudreau played only sporadically after being beaned in 1951, and retired the following season. Tony Conigliaro missed over a year after being hit in the eye, and his vision later deteriorated. Dickie Thon returned from a gruesome beaning in 1984, but never matched his earlier success. On September 28, 1995, Kirby Puckett, the superstar outfielder of the Minnesota Twins, was struck in the cheek by a Dennis Martínez fastball, breaking his jaw and loosening two teeth. It would be his last game; during spring training the following year he developed glaucoma, which ended his career. In 2005, the Cubs' Adam Greenberg was hit in the head with the first, and thus far, the only pitch that he faced in his major league career. Ron Santo, who thought he'd lost an eye when his cheekbone was broken by a pitch in 1966, rushed back to the lineup. He described his attitude: "It was like, 'Here, hit me again.' I didn't have any fear. I just went on. When you get older, maybe fear does set in. Nobody will admit that, but it does happen." Don Zimmer, who was nearly killed by a beanball in 1953 and had four metal buttons surgically implanted in his skull, recounted, "It's not a case of being tougher than anybody else... You never know how you're going to react until you come back and play again."

10 posted on 05/09/2012 10:07:05 AM PDT by frogjerk (OBAMA NOV 2012 = HORSEMEAT)
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To: TBP

It would have been one thing if Harper had come into the league acting like his reputation would imply. But he has been a model first year player: respectful, hard working, not a prima donna, and, by all accounts, a great teammate. The kind of player the league should want. Intentionally hitting him was completely uncalled for, and, as you said, classless.

Hamel sent a message alright. He sent a message that Hamel is stupid (by admitting what he did), a chicken*** (as Rizzo called him), and has no understanding of what old school baseball was about. Harper’s response was classic — stealing home plate on a pickoff attempt at first. Later getting a double to shortstop(!!) was just icing on the cake.


11 posted on 05/09/2012 10:07:47 AM PDT by jjsheridan5
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To: TBP

Hamels didn’t throw a beanball.

Hamels got suspended for telling the truth about what goes on in baseball.

Hamels didn’t do anything out of the ordinary, except tell the truth.


12 posted on 05/09/2012 10:09:09 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: jjsheridan5
. He sent a message that Hamel is stupid

Especially in the National League where he has to bat.

13 posted on 05/09/2012 10:09:19 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: SnakeDoctor
... Keeps the hitters honest.

Harper hasn't been crowding the plate at all. What exactly do you mean by keeping the hitter honest?
14 posted on 05/09/2012 10:10:00 AM PDT by jjsheridan5
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To: frogjerk

Austin Jackson missed a few early games last season after taking a fastball to the head. I think it was due to a concussion.


15 posted on 05/09/2012 10:10:10 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: frogjerk

I am aware that people have been hurt by beanballs ... I remember Dickie Thon in Houston. I said I don’t recall anyone being seriously injured by an INTENTIONAL beanball.

Intentional hit batsmen tend to be hit in the back or the thigh. I don’t recall anyone being hit in the head or face with an intentional beanball or brushback. A beanball in the back or thigh will smart, leave a bruise, give you a ten minute limp ... and a little time to think twice about showboating on your HR trot.

SnakeDoc


16 posted on 05/09/2012 10:10:42 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens, Justified)
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To: jjsheridan5

It was more of the chicken-s crap like when the pitcher plunks the next batter after giving up a home run.


17 posted on 05/09/2012 10:11:10 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: dfwgator

With the 5-game suspension, they’ll delay his start a day and he doesn’t even miss one.


18 posted on 05/09/2012 10:11:55 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: cripplecreek
An umpire named Dave Pallone deliberately bumped Pete Rose. Rose got suspended for it.
19 posted on 05/09/2012 10:13:00 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: SnakeDoctor
I don’t recall hearing of anyone being seriously injured from an intentional beanball.

Kidding? Beanball implies the Bean. The head. Not so harmless.

Does the name Rico Petrocelli ring a bell? Not saying it was intentional but he sure as hell WAS seriously injured.

20 posted on 05/09/2012 10:13:19 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: frogjerk

Which led to making batting helmets mandatory.


21 posted on 05/09/2012 10:13:43 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Scratch that. It wasn’t Rico. It was Tony Conigliaro. Got me Red Sox mixed up.


22 posted on 05/09/2012 10:14:24 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I will not comply. I will NEVER submit.)
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To: TBP
Hamels is lucky Harper didn't go Bert Campaneris on him.


23 posted on 05/09/2012 10:14:51 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

“Intentional” remains the operative word.

SnakeDoc


24 posted on 05/09/2012 10:16:55 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens, Justified)
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To: TBP
The only ump who I remember his name is Jim Joyce.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
25 posted on 05/09/2012 10:17:04 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: TBP

Take away the DH and make the damn pitchers bat.......


26 posted on 05/09/2012 10:17:51 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (My 6 pack abs are now a full keg......)
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To: TBP

Have some research think-tank connect the dots between a beaning and a concussion and long-term issues with dementia, and it will quickly become a 75 game suspension.


27 posted on 05/09/2012 10:18:06 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: TBP
An unprovoked hit on a player is one of the most classless, gutless acts I've seen in many years of watching baseball.

Nonsense. Veteran pitchers have been hazing rookies and trying to intimidate them since professional baseball began.

It would only have crossed the line if he has tried to hurt Harper.

28 posted on 05/09/2012 10:18:47 AM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: Steely Tom
I wonder if there’s any bounty money involved here.

If there was, the pitcher would have been thrown at Harper's head.

29 posted on 05/09/2012 10:19:29 AM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: dfwgator

A few years back, Mike Maroth got tossed out of the game on his very first pitch. However it was the day after a bench clearing brawl with the Tigers and Royals after Carlos Guillen took a fastball to the head.


30 posted on 05/09/2012 10:21:12 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: dfwgator
It was more of the chicken-s crap like when the pitcher plunks the next batter after giving up a home run.

Or is it liberal pansy-ass crap that some are whining about something that has been a part of the game since its beginning?

There is big difference between trying to hurt another player and giving them "love tap" in a place where no injury was going occur.

31 posted on 05/09/2012 10:22:44 AM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: TBP

Harper is the one who handled it well. 19 years old, stealing home on a pitcher who meant to hit your for you first stolen base after going first to third on a single is pretty impressive.

I don’t know why he did it in the first place, it would be one thing if Harper was hot-dogging like he supposedly did at times in the minors. But he hasn’t at all, and I’ve watched every game so far. In fact, his hustle has been just outstanding. I do like that Hammels admitted it kinda, but there should have been a reason to throw at him in the first place and yes, he should miss at least one start. Hamels was also hit in that game, the issue would have been over. I wouldn’t want to get in a snowball fight with the Nats staff this year. Rizzo has been fined for his comments, I believe.

Freegards


32 posted on 05/09/2012 10:23:31 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Kazan

But you have to admit, it was pretty stupid on Hamel’s part to admit it?


33 posted on 05/09/2012 10:23:37 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: dfwgator
Hamels is lucky Harper didn't go Bert Campaneris on him.

He handled the right way and stole a base afterward.

A players don't charge the mound unless he is a head case or unless a pitcher has thrown a pitch that could hurt him.

34 posted on 05/09/2012 10:25:36 AM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: Kazan

If a player is show-boating, yes. If a player is crowding the plate, yes. But not just because someone is a rookie. I don’t seem to recall Kemp getting plunked by some chicken*** pitcher, just because he was a rookie.

There was always a code to these things. Hamel doesn’t even know that. Why do you think virtually every old-time player has come out and said this wasn’t old school baseball, but was classless and stupid?


35 posted on 05/09/2012 10:27:44 AM PDT by jjsheridan5
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To: Ransomed

I’m not sure what the point of fining Rizzo was.


36 posted on 05/09/2012 10:28:42 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: TBP

Overreact much? The ball hit him in the back, not the head. This kind of crap has been going on for close to the 50 years that I’ve been following the game. Gotta admit, Hamels is the first one that I recall admitting to it though. Not sure how smart that is.
The best responses came from the players themselves. Harper came around and stole home as a result. When Hamels came to bat, the pitcher hit him. Tit for tat. Hamels didn’t whine about it. The players police their own game and move on. That’s the way it should happen.
BTW, for what it’s worth, Hamels obviously was not trying to cripple the guy. Why he did it or whether it was smart is another question. IMHO, the other guy that looks like an idiot is Rizzo. It’s not he first the guy has grandstanded and acted like a clown.


37 posted on 05/09/2012 10:30:25 AM PDT by Scoutdad
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To: dfwgator
A Five-Game Suspension on a starting pitcher is nothing.

He still loses 5/162 of his regular season pay, a little better than 3%.

38 posted on 05/09/2012 10:30:31 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Rush: If Ward Churchill had a daughter, she’d look like Elizabeth Warren.)
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To: jjsheridan5
If a player is show-boating, yes. If a player is crowding the plate, yes. But not just because someone is a rookie. I don’t seem to recall Kemp getting plunked by some chicken*** pitcher, just because he was a rookie.

Few rookies have come into the league getting accolades Harper is getting. Hamels just wanted him to realize he is still a rookie with a lot to learn.

This happens a lot. But most pitchers don't admit to doing it so it isn't made a big deal of in the media.

39 posted on 05/09/2012 10:30:56 AM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: TBP

YYYYYYaaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnnn!

Hamels hit the kid on the waist. NO WHERE NEAR HIS HEAD.
Harper had no complaints about what happened. Hamels DID BAT later in the game and was HIT BY A PITCH!. He never complained. The big deal is he told the truth where every other pitcher gives the “pitch got away from me” lie.

What a non-story!


40 posted on 05/09/2012 10:32:02 AM PDT by LeonardFMason
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To: SnakeDoctor
I don’t recall hearing of anyone being seriously injured from an intentional beanball. A little headhunting in baseball never hurt anyone. Keeps the hitters honest.

Headhunting is not a "beanball" and is very dangerous. Beaning someone in the thigh is extremely different then going at their head.

41 posted on 05/09/2012 10:32:03 AM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: TBP

I don’t understand. He got suspended for hitting him in the lower back?

Guys do this every day. Is baseball now going to suspend the pitcher every time they plonk a guy?


42 posted on 05/09/2012 10:32:19 AM PDT by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: LeonardFMason

So deliberately hitting a player for no reason is A-OK as long as he doesn’t get hit in the head? You can injure guys by hitting them.

BTW, after the benches were warned, considering teh Nats weren’t hitting Hamels, I would have loved to have seen one or two of them really crowd the plate and dare him to throw inside.


43 posted on 05/09/2012 10:34:40 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: TBP

“Unprovoked” is probably not true.

Bryce is notorious for instigating and tash talking... He probably got some payback for things he’s said and done in the past. No agreeing with it, but I really doubt this was “unprovoked” just the press and general public doesn’t know what was done to provoke it and when.


44 posted on 05/09/2012 10:34:46 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: TBP

OK...now I understand...he got suspended for telling the truth.


45 posted on 05/09/2012 10:36:44 AM PDT by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: Kazan
Hamels just wanted him to realize he is still a rookie with a lot to learn

Then why didn't he school him by striking him out on a nasty breaking pitch, or getting him to reach for a changeup? That would be the right way to handle Harper's reputation. Even brushing him back a few times would do the trick. As I said, the only message Hamels sent is a statement about Hamels.

I agree that this has been blown somewhat out of proportion, but hitting a player for absolutely no reason whatsoever is not old school baseball. It is just classless.
46 posted on 05/09/2012 10:37:52 AM PDT by jjsheridan5
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To: TBP

I don’t know why he was fined or not, but yeah it seems stupid when Hamels isn’t even going to miss one start. I sort of wish Rizzo wouldn’t have said anything, but I can see why he did. He wanted to send a message that hey, we are good for the first time since the first half-season in DC, we aren’t backing down. But I would hate for one of the key young guys to get a broken hand, or duck down into something if it continues in the other series for the season.

If I was Hunter Pence I would would be having a long talk with Hamels, I think. I think his next few at bats against the Nats with no one on will be pretty toe-curling for him.

I would much rather have a rivalry based on record and proximity, not this type of thing.

Freegards


47 posted on 05/09/2012 10:42:47 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: dfwgator

Hamels threw what appeared to be an off-speed pitch that hit him in the middle of the back. If he had truly been head hunting he’d have thrown high & tight — then claimed that the pitch “got away”.

IMO, Hamels was sending a message without intent to injure. I think a stiff fine; no suspension.

This isn’t in a league with Roger Clemmens chucking a bat back at the hitter. THAT was intent.


48 posted on 05/09/2012 10:45:14 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: B Knotts

No, that’s the Phillies’ party line, but that is not the reason he was suspended.


49 posted on 05/09/2012 10:47:28 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Ransomed

The Nats should start HRod next time they play the Phillies. A 101 mph fastball. Plus, he can really get away with the lie that it got away from him. Of course, if he tried to hit someone, he would probably throw a strike, instead.

But I am sure you are right, and a lot of his teammates are not happy with what he did.


50 posted on 05/09/2012 10:48:02 AM PDT by jjsheridan5
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