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College: 'Best Investment' or Big Risk? (The financial return for a 4-year degree may surprise you)
Smart Money ^ | 05/07/2012 | Jack Hough

Posted on 05/07/2012 2:35:03 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

By

College is the best investment you can make, President Obama told students last month at the University of Colorado.

As a metaphor for the benefits of education, that statement is fine. But taken as a claim about the financial returns of a college degree, it poses two problems.

The first is that students and their families still lack sufficient data to estimate long-term returns for specific college degrees the way investors do with stocks and bonds.

The second problem is one of investment risk. Stock investors can manage risk by buying a diverse basket of shares, but a college student bets on a single asset: himself.

That makes it crucial that students and their families understand the factors that affect the risk and return of a college investment in order to swing the math in their favor.

College brings higher pay: $1,053 a week for the median bachelor's degree holder last year, versus $638 for a high school graduate with no college, says the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Last year's unemployment rate was 4.9% for college grads versus 9.4% for those with no college.

The College Board, a not-for-profit association, calculated in a 2010 report (based on 2008 data) that a typical student who enters a four-year college at age 18 and borrows his way through earns enough by age 33 to make up for his costs, including foregone wages and loan interest.

If a bond paid for itself that quickly, the return would be between 5% and 6% a year. That's a handsome payoff; stocks have historically returned around 7% a year after inflation. And it says nothing of college's other benefits, such as enlightenment, fun and higher job satisfaction.

Two big caveats: The College Board math assumes everyone goes to a public college. Those usually cost less than private ones -- often a lot less -- and that skews returns higher. The report also doesn't account for dropouts or extra college years. Only 56% of students who enroll in a four-year college earn a bachelor's degree within six years, according to a report last year by the Harvard Graduate School of Education.

PayScale, a Seattle data firm, examines the links between pay and variables like colleges and majors. Its analysis, which also ignores dropouts but accounts for students who take longer to complete their degrees, finds an average yearly return of 4.4% for degrees from 853 schools. That assumes students get financial aid, as most do.

Returns vary sharply; they are negative for more than 100 schools and over 11% a year for ones like Harvey Mudd College in California, the Georgia Institute of Technology and the University of Virginia. Dartmouth, Harvard, Stanford and Princeton are over 10%, but so is Queens College in New York -- where state residents pay just over $5,000 a year in tuition, versus about $41,000 for Stanford.

The worst returns tend to come from schools whose programs focus on nursing, criminal justice, sociology and education, says Katie Bardaro, an analyst at PayScale. The best returns are often from schools with strong engineering, computer science, economics and natural-science programs.

There's a flip side: "It's a lot harder to successfully graduate from those engineering programs," says Ms. Bardaro.

PayScale's analysis doesn't show how a specific degree from one school compares with that same degree from another school. "Until we know that, students, school counselors and policy makers are flying blind," says Mark Schneider, former U.S. Commissioner of Education Statistics and vice president of American Institutes for Research, a think tank.

Mr. Schneider set up a data firm, College Measures, to collect such data, and hopes to report his findings later this year. In the meantime, the U.S. Department of Education is set to release "gainful employment" data as soon as this coming week, including loan-repayment rates and debt-to-income ratios. The information is meant to show which schools are putting federal aid to good use, but it will also provide clues to returns.

Until we can predict college returns more accurately, students and their families should think in terms of reducing investment risk, says Richard Vedder, an Ohio University professor and director of the Center for College Affordability and Productivity, a Washington-based advocacy group. After all, outstanding student loans now eclipse total credit-card debt, and even bankruptcy filers don't typically get out from under their school loans.

Start with a frank assessment of performance. High school students with high grades and excellent test scores are likely to go to good schools and earn high returns on their investment, says Mr. Vedder. Middling performers can reduce risk by going to low-cost state and community colleges, perhaps transferring to another school after two years if they do well.

For that matter, anything that cuts college costs reduces investment risk, says Jennifer Ma, a College Board analyst. Living at home for the first two years of school won't do wonders for a student's social life, but it's likely to boost his returns.

Mr. Schneider says students should compare net college costs after projected aid. (They can approximate net costs using the government's College Navigator tool, nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator.) The riskiest investment is a high-cost liberal-arts college that lacks a strong brand name and doesn't offer much aid, says Mr. Schneider. By contrast, a high-cost school with a strong brand and plenty of aid may be a "good buy."

PayScale's Ms. Bardaro says students should research carefully the pay they are likely to secure before deciding how much to spend on college. After all, tuition and fees have increased 184% in 20 years after accounting for inflation, but wages for college grads have risen just 9%, according to Labor Department data.

Mr. Obama's investment tip is well-intentioned, but in college as on Wall Street, returns aren't guaranteed. —Jack Hough is a columnist at SmartMoney.com. Email: jack.hough@dowjones.com



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: college; investment; risk
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To: OldPossum

“what the hell do you want the other 85 percent to do?”

What does the 99.999999% of us who can’t shoot golf like Tiger Woods do? We make less money doing something else that the world needs. Let them get their hands dirty and learn a trade. Competent welders are in great demand. And while we are at it, let’s quit subsidizing do-nothing majors. The US is rapidly coming to the point where we can no longer afford that luxury


41 posted on 05/07/2012 6:20:23 PM PDT by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: azcap
Sales is a talent, not something just anyone could do. I've always admired good sales people. They are fun to be around. On web sites that cater to sales reps posting anonymously though they give off the impression the typical sales rep never matured out of high school. Their spelling and grammar and the subjects they talk about are juvenile. The business world needs them though and they can make a lot of money. Most CEOs come out of the sales ranks.
42 posted on 05/07/2012 6:22:18 PM PDT by Reeses
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To: webstersII

here in Fl it is 40 hours cont ed every 2 years


43 posted on 05/07/2012 6:30:54 PM PDT by scottteng (Tax government employees til they quit and find something useful to do)
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To: OldPossum

“I wonder whether you might be an engineer”

Yes, 34 years in the field, and proud of it.

“All they had to do was switch majors”

No, all they have to do is learn to do something that people need. My neighbour is no intellectual giant, but he makes a pretty good living for his family doing backhoe work. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.


44 posted on 05/07/2012 6:36:07 PM PDT by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: SeekAndFind
public college. Those usually cost less than private ones -- often a lot less -- and that skews returns higher.

Government schools do not cost less, they cost more when all the various taxpayer subsidies are added in. The price is cheaper, not the cost. We'd all be wealthier and better off without them.

45 posted on 05/07/2012 6:41:35 PM PDT by Reeses
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To: CodeToad
Here outside the oil patch if you are a high school dropout but can program in Java, C++, C# or any other popular computer language, which most 16 year olds can do, you can make over $100k.

A great many people find programming as complicated as learning to speak Sanskrit or boring as hell. You have to have a certain kind of mindset to program for years without your head exploding.

46 posted on 05/07/2012 6:47:04 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: truth_seeker

If you don’t know the locations of the headquarters of the major oil companies in the US, you need to get out more.


47 posted on 05/07/2012 6:49:20 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: scottteng; webstersII

“here in Fl it is 40 hours cont ed every 2 years”

Try getting a job in nursing if you haven’t worked in 3 years and all you have is your continuing ed...you won’t get an interview, let alone a job. Not in Arizona, where my RN/BSN wife is threatened with being fired every few weeks.

She’s trying to get training in a specialty so she can find work elsewhere. As a med/surg RN in Tucson, she has applied at the other hospitals and let’s just say the phone isn’t jumping off the hook...


48 posted on 05/07/2012 6:53:41 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: SVTCobra03

“If you don’t know the locations of the headquarters of the major oil companies in the US, you need to get out more.”

Lighten up.

I worked in the “oil patch” and grew up in the “oil patch.”

Was hoping you were simply friendly and neighborly enough, to reveal which oil patch state or location you had in mind.

BTW a lot of the petroleum engineering work and geology work does NOT occur in the “headquarters” and some of it does NOT require a four year degree.

It occurs in field, regional offices.


49 posted on 05/07/2012 7:17:35 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: MNDude

No ROI, but you do get issued a Victim Card with the diploma. It can come in hand if a big, mean conservative ever expects you to accomplish something.


50 posted on 05/07/2012 7:17:35 PM PDT by Gil4 (Sometimes it's not low self-esteem - it's just accurate self-assessment.)
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To: Gil4
And spellcheck can come in hand handy, too, unless one correctly spells the wrong word, like I did.
51 posted on 05/07/2012 7:21:35 PM PDT by Gil4 (Sometimes it's not low self-esteem - it's just accurate self-assessment.)
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To: beef

This is going to be difficult for you to understand because it is obvious that your focus as regards education is that it is a job-training endeavor, but some people wish to acquire knowledge as regards how their civilization came to be and to get the “polish” that comes with a college education, and some add to that by acquiring useful degrees (I’m sure you would take issue) in such fields as education, economics, nursing, and the like). Granted, some study art and I’m sure that bothers the hell out of you, but then again, your focus is on the paycheck. Good, keep it there.

I have nothing more to say. Adios.


52 posted on 05/07/2012 7:28:33 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum

Education isn’t a useful degree. It is an indoctrination program for liberalism. The mot uneducated idiots are those claiming degrees in education.


53 posted on 05/07/2012 8:36:36 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: MNDude

I’m just about to graduate with a major on Women’s Studies? Does anyone know what kind of ROI I might get for this degree?

Not sure about women’s studies but I did quite well majoring in men’s studies. My return on investment was absolutely wonderful after the divorce.


54 posted on 05/07/2012 8:53:09 PM PDT by Joan Kerrey
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To: SeekAndFind

Good article. College is an investment, and often not a good one. I graduated with a Chemical Engineering degree, and have spent the last 14 years wondering the food industry. Very blessed to do it.

Many aren’t that lucky. My wife has a lot of debt outstanding, and with a teachers salary that wasn’t a good investment. I know of a large number of classmates who have left the field, and still have a huge amount of debt.

The parents need to sit down and be frank with their children about schooling, their own ability, and cost.


55 posted on 05/08/2012 4:24:12 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: OldPossum

True, but if you aren’t going to get a degree that pays well, why are you at school?

That is the issue. There was an article about fashion majors working for FREE in order to get a foot in the door. Most don’t.

Why do we have that many fashion degree majors?


56 posted on 05/08/2012 4:26:26 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: OldPossum

You will probably be surprised to learn that I volunteer at my local classical music station, and I attend the theatre about once a month. I just don’t regard it as the primary thrust of civilization. This is stuff you do after the real business is taken care of. The Chinese don’t send their people over here to study art history. We need to start doing something that we can trade them for TV sets, because one of these days they are going to stop taking our IOUs.


57 posted on 05/08/2012 4:36:02 AM PDT by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: MNDude
Does anyone know what kind of ROI I might get for this degree?

I think most fast food places offer a 10% discount on their food for their employees.

58 posted on 05/08/2012 4:47:47 AM PDT by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: skr

Ah. Thank you. And all of those years, wasted!

At this point, I’ll believe just about anything. Seriously, after 40 years in the game, I am starting to understand... a little. My son, 15 years old, is just starting. Maybe I can impart some wisdom. I have already given him words of advice from Bill Cosby. First step to understanding is to admit that you don’t understand.


59 posted on 05/09/2012 10:42:33 AM PDT by dhs12345
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

You know... that makes sense.


60 posted on 05/09/2012 10:45:56 AM PDT by dhs12345
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