Posted on 05/03/2012 6:26:48 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
Are public schools becoming more and more like prisons?
That’s what the documentary “The War on Kids” says.
Based on interviews with educators, medical professionals, students and sociologists, the documentary, which received a limited film festival run in 2009 and is being released this week on the Documentary Channel, paints the picture of an increasingly authoritarian and paranoid school system that is failing its students, stripping them of their civil liberties and constitutional rights.
“Kids have no voice. Everyone pretends to care, but it is never true, and it’s the children who are being blamed for all the failings in the education system,” filmmaker Cevin Soling told FOX411’s Pop Tarts column. “People do not learn when they are in such an autocratic environment
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
What is this, an interrogation? No one is obligated to answer your questions.
Abolish government employee unions. They are already protected under civil service laws. That is enough.
Would you include police and firefighters in this as well, How about workers at county and State institutions such as hospitals and mental facilities. Some police and fire fighters unions provide "Hazard" insurance that are self insurance since other companies rates are to high for this.
In those states that currently have caps on the number of charters, remove these caps.
<Good idea, Would these school have the option of refusing admittance to a school? or would they required to take ALL applicants on a first come first serve basis?
Allow God-centered schools instead of restricting charters to only the religious worldview of godless.
They already exist they are called parochial schools. Also you complained that at your daughter's or daughter-in-law's Catholic school she was the only one that did not support Obozo. Would these schools have to take ALL students on a first come first serve basis? Would they have to modify their curriculum to support all religious beliefs? For instance If the child of Wiccan parents applied to an evangelical school could they practice their faith?
Allow tax credits. Any individual or business who donates money to a private voucher fund, or sponsors a child would deduct the full amount from their taxes.
Good idea no disagreement.
For those who are poor, and do not directly pay income or property taxes, they would be get a reimbursement.
I disagree completely, 48% of our population does not pay federal income tax. This is enough of a "break" they are not entitled to more of my money unless I choose to give it to them.
Allow any group of teachers at any government school to vote to turn their government school into a charter. This has already been successfully done at Green Dot schools in Los Angeles.
Is this based on a simple majority or super majority? What about the teachers that don't want to work for a charter school? What about the students that don't want to attend a charter school or if their parents don't want them to? Where would they attend? How would the Charter school reimburse the county for land and building?
Gradually, reduce the amount of government involvement in education, on every level, over the next 25 years, as the private infrastructure is built and private philanthropy can assume the burden of educating our nation's children. Perhaps a once a year campaign similar to the United Way effort could be instituted, however, the funds would be directed to the private scholarship fund of the worker's choice.
Great idea, 100% agreement.
Finally, currently about 3 to 5% of the nation's children are homeschooled. Homeschooling when done from the beginning, has an excellent record and, on average, homeschooled children **far** exceed institutionalized children in academic achievement. As adults, too, former homeschoolers have **far** less social pathology. These statistics can be found on the Homeschool Legal Defense Association website.
There are three types of lies, Lies D@mn lies, and Statistics. Find and independent agency to support your numbers via a double blind study.
While homeschooling is the most ideal way to rear a child to adulthood, sadly, not all children can be homeschooled, for many reasons: Selfishness, materialism, health, intelligence, illiteracy, poor coping skills, lack of discipline, extreme poverty, etc. on the part of the parents. These children will need to be institutionalized for their schooling. We need orphanages, too, but no one is claiming that this is the best way to rear a child.
So you want to take these children from their parents and put them in an institution? Who is going to determine which students don't fit into your program? Are you going to have "Education panels" or "internment panels"? I was with you pretty much on everything until you went off the rails with this last one. Might be time to rethink this.
( Not proof read.)
There is no excuse for this.
Wintertime likes to play fast and loose with the truth, and sadly she has attacked some very nice people. I am simply pointing out the fallacies of her statements.
If she is telling the truth she will be able to defend her position. If not well she will just ignore and divert, much like she has been doing.
At no time in this thread did I suggest that homeschooling could or should be the only alternative to government socialist-entitlement and single payer schooling. While I believe that we will continue to see a growth in the numbers of homeschoolers over the next decade or so, I seriously doubt that it will ever be the major means of educating the nation's children.
These questions are red herrings and not at all relevant to anything I have posted. I don't see homeschooling as being a solution to the problem of shutting down the government schools and/or providing an adequate education to the nation's children.
Again: I seriously doubt that homeschoolers will ever be more than a single digit percentage of children of school age, even though I believe it is the most ideal way to rear and educate a child.
That is all I will say on the matter in this thread, Homeschooling is NOT the topic of this thread. But...If it makes you happy continue barking about homeschooling.
Please note that in post #39 I did not offer homeschooling as a possible solution to solving the problem of our ill-educated populace. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
I fixed your less than christian response. and would like to point out that the key phrase is "in this thread". In the past that is exactly what you have advocated.
If someone declines to answer your questions they are lying?
A good example of “public” would be Mc Donalds or a state or federal park. There anyone can use the facility regardless of age, gender, race, or religion.
In my opinion calling government owned and run K-12 schools “public” is a lie. Christians shouldn't lie even if others commonly do about government owned and run K-12 schooling.
The truth:
ALL government owned and run K-12 schooling in this nation is a single payer and socialist entitlement. It is **compulsory** for all those children whose parents can not ransom them by way of private or home schooling. All government owned, single-payer, and socialist-entitlement K-12 schools in this nation are godless.
There is no more truthful way to say it. It is what it is.
The truth:
ALL government owned and run K-12 schooling in this nation is a single payer and socialist entitlement. It is **compulsory** for all those children whose parents can not ransom them by way of private or home schooling. All government owned, single-payer, and socialist-entitlement K-12 schools in this nation are godless.
There is no more truthful way to say it. It is what it is.
Trisham please not that Wintertime claims she did not mention homeschooling in post #39, This is a prime example of her playing fast and loose with the truth.
Why are you refusing to answer these questions? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ These questions are red herrings and not at all relevant to anything I have posted. I don't see homeschooling as being a solution to the problem of shutting down the government schools and/or providing an adequate education to the nation's children. Again: I seriously doubt that homeschoolers will ever be more than a single digit percentage of children of school age, even though I believe it is the most ideal way to rear and educate a child. That is all I will say on the matter in this thread, Homeschooling is NOT the topic of this thread. But...If it makes you happy continue barking about homeschooling. 55 posted on Sunday, May 06, 2012 6:24:54 PM by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies | Report Abuse] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: verga Why are you refusing to answer these questions? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please note that in post #39 I did not offer homeschooling as a possible solution to solving the problem of our ill-educated populace. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
Really you want to say I am "confused" Here is a direct quote from YOU in post 39:
Finally, currently about 3 to 5% of the nation's children are homeschooled. Homeschoolinghomeschooled children **far** exceed institutionalized children in academic achievement. As adults, too, former homeschoolers have **far** less social pathology. These statistics can be found on the Homeschool Legal Defense Association website. While homeschooling is the most ideal way to rear a child to adulthood, sadly, not all children can be homeschooled, for many reasons: Selfishness, materialism, health, intelligence, illiteracy, poor coping skills, lack of discipline, extreme poverty, etc. on the part of the parents. These children will need to be institutionalized for their schooling. We need orphanages, too, but no one is claiming that this is the best way to rear a child.
I count you mentioning it 7 times. Would you kind enough to admit your error?
Please read my refutations of her posts and judge for your self. I just documented in post 62 one of many that she has been caught in
The horror!
Beleive what you will, I will glady stop when she pulls back from her constant attacks, like my hero Maharushie (Rush Limbaugh) I don't attack I defend.
I realize that your mind set prevents you from understanding certain truths, but try and pay attention here:In the late 1700's the founding fathers decided to form a new Government. Initially they tried the Articles of Confederation, but this was just a step above anarchy, so they created the Constitution authored primarily by James Madison. This Constitution was a representative democracy. Now pay attention, this is where it gets a little confusing for some people. In a representative democracy the PULIC elects men an women to represent them. This happens in school boards, and towns and villages, as well as cities and states. These representatives vote in a democratic fashion based on the beliefs, wants and needs of the people that elected them and sent them to office.
Further since it is public funds that are collected from the citizens that build and maintain schools that makes them public schools.
Just as we have public roads and buildings. Are you going to claim "this nation is a single payer and socialist entitlement.applies to the roads and buildings as well?
Now since I showed you that you did bring up homeschooling in post 39 please answer those previous questions I asked you.
Ok....I have a question for you.
Since I have been a child, ( I am now in my sixties), there have been many efforts to reform government owned and run socialist- entitlement and single payer schooling.
So?...After all the money and effort expended over so many decades why on earth would you think this socialist-entitlement and single payer institution of government schooling can be fixed?
Now since I showed you that you did bring up homeschooling in post 39 please answer those previous questions I asked you.
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I have not offered homeschooling as a solution. You asked a question about homeschooling and I foolishly answered instead of ignoring it.
It can’t be fixed. It should be dismantled, imho.
Since I have been a child, ( I am now in my sixties), there have been many efforts to reform government owned and run socialist- entitlement and single payer schooling.
So?...After all the money and effort expended over so many decades why on earth would you think this socialist-entitlement and single payer institution of government schooling can be fixed?
Several reasons:
I have seen an increase in the number of parents homeschooling, starting charter schools, and sending their children to private and parochial schools. Competition breeds quality improvement. The more options available the more pressure there will be to make improvements.
Second Our country is reaching a tipping point where we will not be able to afford to continue entitlement programs at the same level we are now. This will probably occur in the next 5- 12 years. At that time there will be a strong Conservative leader who will be able to make the corrections needed.
If you look at our history you will see that Great conservatives have risen to the top to lead us through difficult times. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Reagan.
But that can't happen if people like you do nothing more than sit on the sidelines and whine.
It will take people like my classmates and myself that hold traditional values to make a difference. I see positive changes beginning already in my district due to people that are willing to work within the system. It won't happen over night and it will take longer if people like you continue to accuse us and try us out and make us feel guilty for trying to actually make a difference.
Now feel free to make one of you ignorant canned responses instead of giving this genuine thought.
Now that I answered you question how about answering mine.
My son is a homeschooler. Last year he took a first period Tech class at our local HS.
The first few days he would wait outside for me to pick him up. Many adults would approach and ask him what he was doing outside. He would explain that he was was waiting for a ride home.
He asked me why so many people had come out to check on him.
I told him the truth, they were afraid he was an escapee.
I am not getting into this useless argument, but I do need to bring something to your attention about this statement. McDonald's may be open to the public, however it is still a private establishment and in no way is equivalent to a state or federal park.
If I am the owner of that particular McDonald's I am perfectly within my rights as the owner to restrict who enters based on whatever criteria I choose - such as not permitting children under a certain age unless accompanied by an adult.
Unfortunately you are like far too many around here that equate being open to certain segments of the public with government operations. They are not the equivalent, nor will they ever be such.
That you do not understand the difference negates any credibility such an argument may possibly have had.
What a well thought out responsible thing to say. /SARC
I hope you later told him that they were concerned for his safety and the safety of the other students. That would have been the correct response as well as the mature responsible one as well.
One word: Beslan.
the owner to restrict who enters based on whatever criteria I choose -
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And....Government school boards do **exactly** that! “Public” school? Hardly!
Government socialist-entitement, single-payer, and godless schools rank among the **most** restrictive institutions in America ( public or private).
My apologies, FR - I meant to ping you to my comment at #73!
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZT - WRONG
You equated a private establishment to a state or federal park - you are wrong. I told you I will not get into this useless argument, I was correcting your erroneous equivalency - if you can’t understand that, or get where your equivalency is incorrect, I have to wonder what else you don’t get or where else you are incorrect.
There are very few institutions in our nation has highly restrictive ( public or private, as in Mc Donalds or a federal park) as socialist-entitlement, single payer, and godless, K-12 government schooling.
To call government schooling “public” is a thumb in the eye to all those institutions ( private and public) are INDEED fully open and welcoming to the public.
Geeze! Can you imagine Mc Donalds or a federal park using the threat of police and court action to FORCE ( yes, FORCE) citizens to use its services.
Government schooling is an abomination and an assault on the freedom of conscience of human beings.
No, the point is you used a false equivalency and refuse to admit it. You also missed my comment saying I was not getting into this useless argument.
A private business in no way shape or form is the equivalent of a government operation. You claim them to be equal.
If you are so deadly wrong on this simple fact - I can only imagine what else you are wrong about - and since you refuse to acknowledge your mistake here it can no longer be considered a mistake, you actually believe that a private business, because it invites in the public, is equivalent to a government operation.
I have owned an operated businesses for years - I do not have to serve you or sell you my wares if I do not wish to do so and you can’t do a bloody thing about it.
Your post says it all. Thank you. For any conservative
Christian parent who thinks public school won’t harm their child, they need to view the documentary “Indoctrination”.
Well, Amen.
I haven’t seen the documentary “Indoctrination”, but I’m going to look it up.
And ...you refuse to admit that government schools are likely the **least** “public” institution in our nation. Is there any other institution ( private or public) so widespread and pervasive in its restriction?
I could lend you my copy if you lived in the Phoenix area. I got my copy on Amazon. Also, check out books written by John Taylor Gatto. His book “Weapons of mass instruction” is excellent. Unfortunately books and DVDs critical of the government schools are not available at the public library. I wonder why??
You have totally missed the point of my comment. It has nothing to do with schools, as I clearly stated I wasn’t getting into that argument. Of course you choose to ignore that FACT in your effort to claim you are the all knowing about everything.
You are a statist who equates private businesses with government operations and refuse to acknowledge the error of your ways. In no way, shape or form is a PRIVATELY owned McDonald’s the equivalent of a state or federal park.
Based upon your position that equates the two different entities, nothing you say can be given any credibility. You obviously prefer government control of private entities. Anyone who considers a private enterprise to be no different than a government entity is no conservative.
You have shown your true colors here, as so many of us knew you would eventually do.
This is an out right lie.
Public school are required to admit any and all students that apply and live within that district. You need to learn something about education Law. at the same time any student that has reached the age of 16 has the option to drop out.
Now that being said Students can be removed from public schools at the schools discretion for behavioral reasons but these are few and far between.
Frankly as I have told you on previous occasions I have a number of students that should be removed.
Document this or retract it. And for the record you have made the claim that public schools are compulsory, now you say they are restrictive. You do realize that those statements are mutually exclusive and contradict each other?
I’ll pull it down to my kindle app. Thanks!
> Unfortunately books and DVDs critical of the government
> schools are not available at the public library. I wonder
> why??
LOL!
( Ask any child or parent who was forced into busing.)
Gee! And....Can you imagine a federal or state park or Mc Donalds saying, “You can't enter because you don't live in a specific “People's Zone”.
For example, Mc Donalds stock is sold to the public. Even a newborn in the provinces of Guatemala can be a part owner of Mc Donalds.
Unlike socialist-entitlement and single payer government owned and run schools, your local amusement park is has public admission. Anyone from anywhere can attend. They don't need to live in a specified Peoples’ Socialist District. Unlike the socialist-entitlement and single payer government owned and run school, it isn't going to use the threat of police action to FORCE people to use its facilities.
Finally, there is NO other institution so pervasively, profoundly ( and on such a grand scale impacting 49 million children and their families) that is as racially and class segregated as our nation's government owned and run socialist-entitlement and single payer K-12 schools. It is a national disgrace.
You remain wrong. Public and private entities are not equivalent. That you are incapable of understanding that concept astounds me.
The sale of McDonald’s stock to the public is a choice made by the owners and the purchase is an individual choice. The purchase of “stock” by the public of a state or federal park is mandated.
I love the fact that you personally do more to hurt your cause then anyone could possibly imagine. You are a gift that keeps on giving to public education. Keep ranting it makes the rest of the world look reasonable and intelligent.
You remain wrong. Public and private entities are not equivalent.
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Obviously, they are not, but both can be fully open to public use. And....Please look up the definition of “public”. You will see that it can, and is, used to describe private institutions as well as government entities, depending upon the circumstances.
That is correct - but that is not what you originally said when you equated a private business with a government entity:
From your post at #73:
A good example of “public” would be Mc Donalds or a state or federal park. There anyone can use the facility regardless of age, gender, race, or religion.
You stated they are the same, when they obviously are not as I pointed out to you in my original post from last night that the owner of a McDonald's is perfectly within his/her rights to restrict who may use the facility.
I stand by my original criticism that you were wrong when you equated private enterprise with government run operations. That you continued to insist you were correct gave me all the proof I needed to determine you are a statist and not a conservative.
Trying to turn this around as being a mistake on my part is not going to work this time - because now you are saying what I was saying from the beginning.
Your chutzpa never ceases to amaze me - but I refuse to allow you to get away with nonsense any longer.
You knew I was correct all along but will never admit that you, yourself, are capable of ever making a mistake or can actually just be plain wrong. Further proof to me you are no conservative. You are actually no different than those most on this site seek to remove from power. I say "most" because there are quite a few other statists like you around here who rail against overbearing government, except when the same suits their interests and wants.
Here's a little tip - get rid of the chip on your shoulder, maybe then more people would take you seriously.
Still waiting on you to answer the questions in psot number #52. You really like to dodge the questons that present the real you don't you?
Unless they are directly attributed to you, you can claim this until the cows come home and it still doesn't mean a hill of beans. I can claim you took the words and phrases from those editorialists to use here and you will be unable to prove me wrong - unless they are directly attributed to you. Of course that would be unknown to anyone here because you are too afraid to identify yourself.
There's the difference between you and me. When my words are "picked up" by any media outlet it is due to one of two things. Either I have been interviewed by them, or I have signed my full name, not just my nickname*, to something I have written.
*Gabz is my nickname, has been since I was a baby. I've never hidden my identity here. That you are unaware of that is understandable considering there is a nearly 6 year difference in our memberships. Of course I don't go off half cocked and say things to people online that I would not say to their face in person, thus my lack of a need to be anonymous. I also accept full responsibility for my comments and have no problems admitting when I have been wrong. All of which can not be said about you.
ROFL And given that the little automatons all have the exact same canned speeches it could be attributed to any of them.
Looks like ole winter didn't just get schooled, she got PUBLIC schooled!
Now that's just down right funny!!!!!
I knew when I originally wrote the post it would get no response from our friend wintertime. Par for the course :-)
Gabz and Verga....Freepers are very smart. They immediately recognize this debating tactic and will judge those that use this accordingly.
Verga: Being a highly educated teaching professional, with a newly minted masters degree in education, I trust that you would **never** use this Alinsky debating tactic on emotionally and educationally immature students who are in a position of inferior power. To do so would be child abuse.
No, no,....Teaching “professionals’ would never never do that to children.
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