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Viewpoints: For starters, Justice Scalia, broccoli isn't health insurance
The Sacramento Bee ^ | March 31, 2012 | by Paul Krugman

Posted on 03/31/2012 6:12:20 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

Nobody knows what the Supreme Court will decide with regard to the Affordable Care Act. But, after this week's hearings, it seems quite possible that the court will strike down the "mandate" – the requirement that individuals purchase health insurance – and maybe the whole law.

Let's start with the already famous exchange in which Justice Antonin Scalia compared the purchase of health insurance to the purchase of broccoli, with the implication that if the government can compel you to do the former, it can also compel you to do the latter. That comparison horrified health care experts all across America because health insurance is nothing like broccoli.

Why? When people choose not to buy broccoli, they don't make broccoli unavailable to those who want it. But when people don't buy health insurance until they get sick – which is what happens in the absence of a mandate – the resulting worsening of the risk pool makes insurance more expensive, and often unaffordable, for those who remain. As a result, unregulated health insurance basically doesn't work, and never has.

As I said, we don't know how this will go. But it's hard not to feel a sense of foreboding – and to worry that the nation's already badly damaged faith in the Supreme Court's ability to stand above politics is about to take another severe hit.

(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: failure; obamacare; scotus; socialism
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

last I checked, food has a larger daily impact on a persons health then a band-aid

I’m still waiting for the commies to start pushing food as a ‘basic right’ and force all restaurants to stop charging. I guess it’d be too obvious that their commie beliefs are unsustainable


21 posted on 03/31/2012 6:59:03 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: sirchtruth
Yes, he clearly is an idiot, and apparently too much of an ideologue to even see the hypocrisy in his argument about partisanship on the court.

I guess a related question is, why would anyone spend the money for Princeton tuition if Krugman exemplifies the poor quality of faculty there?

22 posted on 03/31/2012 6:59:30 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

...and health insurance ain’t in the Constitution.


23 posted on 03/31/2012 6:59:56 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
For starters, Justice Scalia, broccoli isn't health insurance

Then why did mom tell me I'd be healthier if I ate all my broccoli?

24 posted on 03/31/2012 7:08:51 AM PDT by NRG1973
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To: john mirse

I don’t necessarily agree with your conclusions, but you did bring up an interesting problem: is health care, or health insurance, too expensive for the average American? I don’t know, but it would be interesting to see how much it cost if current insurance policies were restricted to catastrophic cases and most people paid out of pocket for lesser problems. The fly in the ointment is that nowhere in the constitution does it state that the government must provide any of the necessities. Health care is of great importance, but not any more important than food, clothing, and shelter. If the government can force a person to buy health insurance, they can pretty much force them to buy anything it thinks necessary.


25 posted on 03/31/2012 7:09:54 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Hey Paul!
You have NEVER “stood above politics”, because you have no values to defend.

Broccoli is simply a metaphor to make the point that if this Federal mandate stands, then the government can impose ANYTHING.

An insurance card is not the same as “healthcare”.
In fact Obamacare is a mechanism to LIMIT ACCESS TO TESTING AND TREATMENT.


26 posted on 03/31/2012 7:13:24 AM PDT by G Larry (We are NOT obliged to carry the snake in our pocket and then dismiss the bites as natural behavior.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

For starters, Mr. Krugman, light bulbs are not health insurance either, but our government dictated which ones we could buy.


27 posted on 03/31/2012 7:13:24 AM PDT by almcbean
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

For starters, Mr. Krugman, light bulbs are not health insurance either, but our government dictated which ones we could buy.


28 posted on 03/31/2012 7:13:47 AM PDT by almcbean
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Why? When people choose not to buy broccoli, they don't make broccoli unavailable to those who want it

Actually, if a lot of people decide not to buy broccoli then fewer farmers will plant it, importers will import it off season and fewer stores will stock it. By not buying it, I might make it more expensive for others to buy and thus price other buyers out of the market depending on how elastic the supply is and what quantity efficiencies are no longer available. For example, compare the price and availability of iceberg lettuce vs. arugula.

Also, Krugman, the real point is that neither broccoli nor health insurance is a power given to Congress in article I, section 8 of the Constitution no matter how important you think one or the other is.

29 posted on 03/31/2012 7:20:25 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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Kruggie! Your wife still writing your columns?

"When people choose not to buy broccoli, they don't make broccoli unavailable to those who want it."

Actually, they do. If demand is so inconsequential for broccoli, the grocer will stop carrying it.

The 24 million uninsured are not demanding insurance, despite insurance companies efforts to attract their business. The 24 million uninsured are demanding care that the rest of us pay for.

30 posted on 03/31/2012 7:30:35 AM PDT by StAnDeliver (=)
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To: wayoverontheright

The left’s mania for “insurance” is the belief that NOTHING can be done equitably or efficiently that isn’t done collectively according to some overall Plan.


31 posted on 03/31/2012 7:33:12 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Krugman figured out that broccoli isn’t health insurance? You need to read his whole statement.

“Broccoli isn’t health insurance.....it’s car insurance, and I have a celery deductible. Who wants to see my impression of toast?”


32 posted on 03/31/2012 7:36:30 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: john mirse
If health insurance were actually insurance, what we call "catastrophic coverage" only, then medical costs would be a small fraction of what they are now because our medical dollars would go to 100% to medical treatment rather than a very large % to government bureaucrats and private bureaucrats who have to live better than the average and must waste a large % of the % that they suck out of consumers' pockets.

Health Insurance as exists today is not insurance at all. It is a prepayment plan for medical treatment and a welfare plan to maintain government and private organizations and parasites superfluous employees.

33 posted on 03/31/2012 7:42:00 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
That comparison horrified health care experts all across America because health insurance is nothing like broccoli.

It just occurred to me that Alinsky's rules are being used not be a few but by the majority on the left. First government, hand-picked scholars, and pundits ridicule the target then the msm perpetuates it non-stop.

“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” - Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals

It's past time for us to start fighting back. We need to research everyone who is using ridicule to shut out their enemy. Then we need to humble them publicly as they've done to so many others.

Start with Paul Krugman. Does his expertise on the economy extend to law? Does he even understand the question before the Court, that it's not about the economy but our basic liberty? Yes, he and the others know but they're trying to latch onto the broccoli piece to (1) ridicule Scalia and (2) turn Obamacare into an economic argument. They can't win on the freedom argument and they know it.

I am so sick of this but people will never get it if we just generalize about Alinsky's rules, we need to fight fire with fire.

34 posted on 03/31/2012 7:46:53 AM PDT by Kenny
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To: Jeff Head

Yes and having a gun at home where there are children risks lives and is a public health concern.

Therefore, guns need to be controlled as a health concern. (This actually was proposed by the Leftist AMA)

There is no end to this ................


35 posted on 03/31/2012 8:07:00 AM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: nhwingut

I thought Breyer said yes, it meant government could compel citizens to buy anything it deemed necessary for the greater good?


36 posted on 03/31/2012 8:16:13 AM PDT by Anima Mundi
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Food is no different than medicine because food changes your body. Broccoli and beef and chicken and wine and twinkies all change your body chemistry. Therefore, you could make the case that food is no different than pharmaceuticals.

Take the pill? Eat your broccoli? What’s the difference? Not much. The government could very well declare Twinkies as dangerous as a cigarette. And demand that we pre-approve our grocery lists. Although for some reason they are trying to legalize marijuana. So it’s all very confusing.


37 posted on 03/31/2012 8:16:18 AM PDT by carmody
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To: Jeff Head

And anything applies to things outside of health care. I have an 11 year old Ford Focus. I love my car. It runs really well and still gets decent gas mileage. I want to drive it till it dies and I plan to replace it with a newer...Ford Focus. I’d love to have a Fiesta diesel but they aren’t available in the states (96 mpg on the highway!)

At some point my car could be forced of the road because it doesn’t meet “today’s” standards. After some byzantine formula looking at my income, housing, quotas, and all sorts of other stuff, the usual way to figure benefits, I might get the choice of a Chevy Volt and the bus.

It seems a little tin foil hat, but I never imagined a world where I couldn’t decide whether I could pay out of pocket or had to use insurance to get a service. The car insurance argument is moot, since many small accidents are settled out of pocket to keep the insurance companies out of it.


38 posted on 03/31/2012 8:17:42 AM PDT by PrincessB (Drill Baby Drill.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Who gets to decide, if it’s not the same?... Obama?

Rick Santorum? (just for any liberals reading) Sarah Palin?
Better idea, is don’t go there.

At all. Ever. For anything.


39 posted on 03/31/2012 8:24:25 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (There is nothing "public" about government union-controlled schools)
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To: KarlInOhio
>> if a lot of people decide not to buy broccoli then fewer farmers will plant it <<

Correct. But IMO the statement really misses a crucially important point:

If somebody doesn't eat broccoli and other green vegetables, then his HEALTH (not necessarily his health insurance) is likely to suffer. And when anybody's health suffers, the marginal effect is to make health costs go up for everybody.

So to keep health costs low, the "progressive" mindset presumably holds that the federal government has a rational basis to require that everybody engage in the specific type of interstate commerce which deals with green vegetables.

In other words, the controversy keeps boiling down to the question,

Does the federal government have the power to force people to engage in a specific kind of interstate commerce (buying green vegetables) in order to "regulate" another kind of interstate commerce (health services and/or health insurance).

To paraphrase an infamous former POTUS:

It all depends on what the meaning of "regulate" is.

In other words, is it really "regulation" of one sort of interstate commerce (health services) when the feds require somebody de novo to engage in another sort of interstate commerce (health insurance and/or vegetables). Of course not!

40 posted on 03/31/2012 8:35:31 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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