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Paul Voters Not Necessarily Party Voters
New York Times ^ | December 30, 2011 | MARK LEIBOVICH

Posted on 12/30/2011 12:41:42 PM PST by presidio9

With Representative Ron Paul performing solidly in Republican presidential polls – and near the top in Iowa – a recurring question nags at political wise-guys: Will the Texas libertarian’s corps of loyal and energized supporters be an asset to an eventual Republican nominee?

Or will they be a liability if that nominee is not named Ron Paul — meaning, they will vote only for Mr. Paul as a third-party or write-in candidate, or stay home altogether, which would probably help the prospective Democratic nominee, President Obama?

Based on discussion with a dozen supporters at candidate events across the state — including a Paul rally of about 500 here Wednesday night – the Paul Posse contains a considerable “Ron or I’m Gone” population.

Of those people interviewed, three said they would vote for the Republican nominee if it was not Mr. Paul, and two said they were not sure. But seven respondents said they would support only Mr. Paul in the general election – either as a write-in or third-party candidate (the latter of which Mr. Paul has not ruled out). Ideally, they said, he would be the Republican nominee.

“If the Republican Party is going to remain viable, it needs to nominate Ron Paul,” said Sean Curtin of Iowa City, who estimates that that “Libertarian-Constitutional” constituency that supports Mr. Paul makes up 25 percent of the Republican Party.

And if they don’t nominate Mr. Paul?

“I would not vote for anyone else,” said Eric Grote, who travelled to Iowa from Turkey, where he lives half the year,

(Excerpt) Read more at thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: blameamericafirst; freepers4mitt; mittensapologists; nutjobs; paul; paulestinians; ronpaul
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1 posted on 12/30/2011 12:41:43 PM PST by presidio9
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To: presidio9

In another shocking development, fire is hot.


2 posted on 12/30/2011 12:51:35 PM PST by sthguard (The DNC theme song: "All You Need is Guv")
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To: presidio9
Paul running 3rd party will mean little to the GOP nominee. Look at the losers they cite in the article. Some dope that lives in Turkey and another who thinks that 25% of the base will walk if Paul isn't nominated? On what facts? It is clear that Pauls support is primarily college punks and Libertarians who wouldn't vote GOP anyway. Paul is this election cycles John Anderson. If he runs 3rd party, he will siphon disillusioned Obummer voters and not have an effect on moderates and GOP voters.


3 posted on 12/30/2011 12:54:48 PM PST by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: sthguard

Paulbots are the scum of the earth. They’ll vote for Obama if their neo-nazi messiah Ron Paul doesn’t get the republican nomination.


4 posted on 12/30/2011 12:55:51 PM PST by bigdirty
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To: presidio9

Mr. Grote, any Muslim sympathizer is happy to vote for Paul, as well as Democrats who wish to ridicule the Republican party, since they don’t have to be registered Republicans to caucus in Iowa.


5 posted on 12/30/2011 12:56:15 PM PST by bukkdems (Polygamy is the essential ingredient of Islamic evil.)
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To: sthguard
In another shocking development, fire is hot.

It obviously needs to be repeated again and again on this conservative website: If you are not prepared to vote for the Republican candidate (even Mitt Romney) to defeat Barak Obama, you don't belong here.

6 posted on 12/30/2011 12:56:32 PM PST by presidio9 (www.catholicscomehome.org)
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To: presidio9
If we lose to King Obama it will because of Ron Paul and his insane followers. Wait and see.
7 posted on 12/30/2011 12:57:31 PM PST by Logical me
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To: presidio9

Actually they are party voters. Democrat party, that is.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2826872/posts

Besides the kooks and nuts who support Paul, the libs have a vested interest in supporting him.


8 posted on 12/30/2011 12:59:44 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS! This means liberals AND libertarians (same thing) NO LIBS!)
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To: presidio9
Hmmm....

Are these the same unemployed live in the basement types that voted for the anointed one last time?

They are still unemployed cause the hopee-changee didn't work...

( sarc off ).

I have been saying for eons, he will get the Anti-War-ers, The Stoners, and I amend that now to add the Hollyweirders and maybe even the Anti-Semites.

What a frickin' carnival this cycle is becoming.

Sarah please throw your hat in after NH....

9 posted on 12/30/2011 1:01:46 PM PST by taildragger (( Palin / Mulally 2012 ))
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To: presidio9

Actually, it appears that you need to be reminded that the owner of this site has stated that he will never vote for Romney....so I guess you don’t belong here if you would vote for Romney.


10 posted on 12/30/2011 1:10:45 PM PST by Turtlepower
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To: Logical me

Hey kids!

If you liked Barry’s bow to Muslim despots, wait til you see RP tie himself to a four poster bed in his BVDs!


11 posted on 12/30/2011 1:28:24 PM PST by relictele (Green energy is neither)
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To: presidio9; Jim Robinson

“It obviously needs to be repeated again and again on this conservative website: If you are not prepared to vote for the Republican candidate (even Mitt Romney) to defeat Barak Obama, you don’t belong here.”

Mr. Plantation Overseer, you might want to issue your directives to the site’s owner, just to see how quickly he jumps to compliance upon your say so.

As for me, if Mitt Romney is the best the GOP can come up with, the GOP is part of the problem. If the best the GOP can come up with is Romney, the GOP needs to be ground out of existence.

Like a free bird from a great height, I eject high velocity guano all over Mitt Romney and any organization or individual who would assist his creep to a higher and warmer rock.

I will crawl over broken glass to vote against Mitt Romney. Bank on it.


12 posted on 12/30/2011 1:30:14 PM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: presidio9

Piss on you, pal. Looks like you just numbered your days on this pro-life conservative forum. I will NEVER vote for Romney nor allow him to be supported on this forum!!


13 posted on 12/30/2011 1:43:08 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
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To: Psalm 144; Turtlepower
I'm starting to enjoy it when people report me to JimRob. I really am. I can't remember if Jim has an opinion on Paul versus Romney, but I generally respect his intelligence enough to be convinced that he knows at least this: In a two party system, any failure to vote for the least undesirable candidate from one of those two parties is mathmatically equivalent to a vote for the MOST undesirable candidate. That includes ill-advised protest votes such as write-ins and third party candidacies. Justify things any way you like: If you fail to vote, write in Sarah Palin, or vote for Gary Johnson, Ron Paul or Donald Trump, it is still the equivalent to voting for Barak Obama. I believe libertarians when they say they see no difference between Barak Obama and ANY of the other Republican candidates. I also believe that Dr. Paul himself has no intention of winning. He just wants as much time on the stage as possible. Personally, I will be voting for Rick Santorum, if I get that chance. I don't believe that I will, so my next imperative WAS to ensure that Mitt Romney does not win the GOP nomination. Ron Paul, who can't win, is sure looking like he will sabotage any and all alternatives to Romney. I am sure that that was not his intent, but that is what he is doing. In the end, he present the 120mm Americans who vote with three options: Obama, Romney, or a protest vote (which will equal a vote for Obama).

Again, I can't stand Mitt Romney, but I am smart enough to understand that he is preferable to Barak Obama if only because we won't get three more Elana Kagens on SCOTUS under him.

I will repeat my point in a way that you can perhaps understand: If you see no difference between the Conservative candidates (Dr. Paul is a libertarian, not a conservative) and Barak Obama, you don't belong on this website.

14 posted on 12/30/2011 1:52:06 PM PST by presidio9 (www.catholicscomehome.org)
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To: taildragger

I’m a Paul Supporter, but I do not live under any delusion that he can get the nomination straight up, I’m hoing for a brokered convention with no clear majority winner, then we can walk away from Romney whom I can not support under any circumstances. I will write in RP if Romney is the nominee, Ive lived in New England for 40 years, I know who Romney is.


15 posted on 12/30/2011 1:53:02 PM PST by qman
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To: presidio9
if only because we won't get three more Elana Kagens on SCOTUS under him

shurrrrre. He's a RINO, man. He'll fold. You can trust in that. Bush the Elder was a paragon of GOP virtue compared to Romney...

16 posted on 12/30/2011 1:56:11 PM PST by no-s (B.L.O.A.T. and every day...because some day soon they won't be making any more...for you.)
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To: Jim Robinson

See post 14 on this thread. I can’t and won’t be supporting Mitt Romney, but if I have to chose between him and Barak Obama (and I believe the blood of patriots requires that I do), I will hold my nose and vote for Romney.

Stay home if you must. My point is, was, and will be that the Paulestinians on this website are doing Romney’s work for him.

BTW, Dr. Paul has a 56% rating from the National Right to Life Foundation.


17 posted on 12/30/2011 1:57:58 PM PST by presidio9 (www.catholicscomehome.org)
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To: presidio9

Well, you won’t be choosing him on this pro-life website. The day you do will be your last day as a FReeper!!


18 posted on 12/30/2011 2:03:30 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
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To: presidio9

“I will repeat my point in a way that you can perhaps understand: If you see no difference between the Conservative candidates (Dr. Paul is a libertarian, not a conservative) and Barak Obama, you don’t belong on this website.”

I will repeat myself in a way perhaps you can understand:

1) Romney and Republicans like him are as much the enemy of life, liberty and prosperity as Obama and Democrats like him. ‘Republican’ does not equal ‘conservative’, and the amount of overlap has been in sharp decline for over twenty years.

2) I will not whore my vote to Romney, or to the Menshevik party just because it is ‘better’ than the Bolshevik party.

3) You may pander or compromise with any who are interested, it is not my concern. But if you do choose to get in bed with a ‘lesser evil’, you are in a compromising position with evil.

4) I am a guest on this site with or without your approval. If you do not like it, that sort of makes me laugh.


19 posted on 12/30/2011 2:08:43 PM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: no-s
shurrrrre. He's a RINO, man. He'll fold. You can trust in that. Bush the Elder was a paragon of GOP virtue compared to Romney...

That's a strong possibility. What were're essentially talking about here is the difference between a guy we KNOW will appoint liberal activist judges, and a guy who COULD do so. This paradigm is generally referred to as "the lesser of two evils." The idea is to avoid getting to that point in the first place. Because Dr. Paul is a liberatarian, not a conservative, we know that he won't be winning the nominiation, even if his solid following and organization gives him a strong showing in the Iowa CAUCUS. All he's doing there is hurting the other viable not-Romney candidates.

20 posted on 12/30/2011 2:09:11 PM PST by presidio9 (www.catholicscomehome.org)
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To: presidio9

They couldn’t be party voters even if they wanted to be. The party has told them in no uncertain terms that they are not welcome in any republican coalition.


21 posted on 12/30/2011 2:11:23 PM PST by DManA
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To: Jim Robinson
Well, you won’t be choosing him on this pro-life website. The day you do will be your last day as a FReeper!!

Got it. I don't like/trust/respect Mitt Romney either. Continued libertarian infiltration and support for Ron Paul, who is not a conservative (and not really pro-life) on this and other conservative forums seems guaranteed to present that choice. I agree that it sucks.

22 posted on 12/30/2011 2:20:49 PM PST by presidio9 (www.catholicscomehome.org)
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To: Psalm 144

To be honest, I am not that interested in contrasting Mitt Romney (who I can’t stand) with Ron Paul. Dr. Paul does not seem to be taking votes away from Romney, and won’t be winning the nomination in any case. Let’s stick to comparisons between Paul and the remaining candidates, who Dr. Paul is attacking.


23 posted on 12/30/2011 2:23:25 PM PST by presidio9 (www.catholicscomehome.org)
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To: presidio9

If you want to change the premises in that direction that is fine. Paul looked interesting at first at a great distance, given his Founder-esque noises on limited and curtailed central government. On closer inspection that is the bait wrapped around some really odd, LaRouche like personal tics and fetishes, some of which are downright dangerous if implemented, mostly through gross negligence.

On close inspection, he is not an acceptable candidate, and in that regard he joins Romney, albeit for very different reasons. With varying degrees of enthusiasm or disgust (sometimes simultaneous) I could support any of the others in the general.

We are probably not going to get a game changer POTUS this time around. Lower ticket races are always important - this time they will be crucial in every jurisdiction. That is my take anyway.


24 posted on 12/30/2011 2:42:16 PM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: Psalm 144
We are probably not going to get a game changer POTUS this time around. Lower ticket races are always important - this time they will be crucial in every jurisdiction. That is my take anyway.

How do I get myself into these situations? A Ron Paul nomination will hurt Republican voter turnout more than Mitt Romney would. There: I said it. I'm talking Republican voters, not Conservatives.

25 posted on 12/30/2011 2:48:27 PM PST by presidio9 (www.catholicscomehome.org)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: qman

Romney won’t get the nomination.


27 posted on 12/30/2011 3:21:24 PM PST by VeniVidiVici ("Si, se gimme!")
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To: presidio9
The WSJ and Washington Examiner have reported this week that many of Paul's supporters are dems. So, a third party wouldn't affect republican's much, but would also draw votes from Obie.

I say he's irrelevant.

28 posted on 12/30/2011 3:31:30 PM PST by chiller ( Elect another batch of TPartiers and it won't matter which R we elect. WE will lead.)
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To: presidio9

From the article:

“Will the Texas libertarian’s corps of loyal and energized supporters be an asset to an eventual Republican nominee?”

in 1964 were the New York Governor’s and Michigan Governor’s liberal corps of loyal and energized supporters an asset to the eventual Republican nominee?


29 posted on 12/30/2011 3:33:45 PM PST by ngat
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To: presidio9

Paul is not going to get the nomination. He -might- win some primaries, indeed I hope he does win in Virginia given the fun and games over there, but he is not going to win the nomination.


30 posted on 12/30/2011 3:36:35 PM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: bigdirty

Only if they’re driven to vote for Obama. I think the point of the article is that independents are otherwise unwilling to embrace the Republican party for a reason. We already know why they aren’t Obama supporters, since we aren’t either. There’s probably nothing that can be done about the “Ron or I’m Gone” people, but driving Paul supporters away makes no more sense than the all the mindless sniping that’s been going on between Perry/Cain/Bachmann/Gingrich/etc. If you can’t hold a political party together, then you’ve got no chance of being able to take back this country from the left, and the left will win by default.


31 posted on 12/30/2011 4:05:27 PM PST by yup2394871293
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To: presidio9

Paul Voters and supporters are IDIOTS.


32 posted on 12/30/2011 4:06:29 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: presidio9

Where in The Constitution was the US federal government set up as a two party system? I must have missed that.


33 posted on 12/30/2011 4:10:59 PM PST by WorkingDad
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To: qman
I will write in RP if Romney is the nominee

In which case, you will be responsible if Zero gets a second term.

34 posted on 12/30/2011 4:18:30 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: qman
I will write in RP if Romney is the nominee...

You mean Rick Perry, right?

You couldn't possibly mean that Code Pink, blame-America, military-hating leftist Ron Paul, could you?

35 posted on 12/30/2011 4:22:53 PM PST by Allegra (Hey! Stop looking at my tagline like that.)
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To: WorkingDad
Where in The Constitution was the US federal government set up as a two party system? I must have missed that.

It was not, obviously. However, if you want to go third party, you'd better be sure you have an awful lot of company, or else you are effectively voting Democrat.

We don't yet have a nominee. It's much safer to try to take over the GOP than to try to found a new party.

36 posted on 12/30/2011 4:32:49 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: presidio9
Gee you mean NOT all of Sanjays Paul's support is from actual Republicans instead of others the media tells us are Republicans?
37 posted on 12/31/2011 3:52:05 AM PST by jmaroneps37 (Conservatism is truth. Liberalism is lies.)
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To: presidio9
BTW, Dr. Paul has a 56% rating

It's very telling that you call him "Dr. Paul".

It is a trait exclusive to hard-core paultards.

38 posted on 12/31/2011 4:08:24 AM PST by humblegunner (The kinder, gentler version...)
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To: presidio9

I didn’t report you to anybody, including JmRob. I just merely pointed out that you are wrong.

You said that everyone on this forum needs to vote for Romney over Obama if it comes down to it, or they don’t belong here. You have been repeatedly slapped down on this thread by several, including JimRob himself.

Yet, you continue to assert that everyone needs to back the eventual GOP nominee, even if it’s Romney....not gonna happen....No Romney ever....


39 posted on 12/31/2011 6:37:44 AM PST by Turtlepower
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To: presidio9

The anti Israel Paul and the Presisdent both are bigots and racists and anti semites and hate and will continue to destroy our once great nation quickly. And the useful idiots will oblige them is my guess.


40 posted on 12/31/2011 7:07:18 AM PST by kindred (wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ ...)
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To: presidio9

[If you are not prepared to vote for the Republican candidate (even Mitt Romney) to defeat Barak Obama, you don’t belong here.]

The conservatives don’t need the rino right to tell them how they should vote. Paul and Romney are liberal democrats and no conservative votes for idiots and liars and thives who do what Obama does.


41 posted on 12/31/2011 7:09:48 AM PST by kindred (wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ ...)
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To: presidio9

Vote as you will, but I vote for conservatives and Rick Santoium is the best man their. I am sick of rino republicans and hate the communist islamic left and have come to the conclusion that Americans have defeated themselves through the arrogance of the sin they indulge in daily with respect to God and their fellowman.
A vote for a rino is a vote for Barack Obama as far as I am concerned. I will vote for one who will represent my views and not the rino liberal leftist the pubs choose to run.


42 posted on 12/31/2011 7:14:25 AM PST by kindred (wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ ...)
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To: WorkingDad

[Where in The Constitution was the US federal government set up as a two party system?]

Good point, as so many liberal democrats now run as republicans who are controled by the hateful left also.


43 posted on 12/31/2011 7:17:20 AM PST by kindred (wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ ...)
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To: kindred
A vote for a rino is a vote for Barack Obama as far as I am concerned. I will vote for one who will represent my views and not the rino liberal leftist the pubs choose to run.

A vote for anyone who is not Obama's main opponent is a vote for Obama. If you cannot, through the primary process, get someone who "will represent [your] views" to be Obama's Republican opponent in the general election, then your vote for that person as a write in or a third party candidate will be both a vote for Obama and an act of moral masturbation.
44 posted on 12/31/2011 7:30:34 AM PST by aruanan
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To: presidio9

With Representative Ron Paul performing solidly in Republican presidential polls – and near the top in Iowa – a recurring question nags at political wise-guys: Will the Texas libertarian’s corps of loyal and energized supporters be an asset to an eventual Republican nominee?


Cult followers are not known for the art of compromise.


45 posted on 12/31/2011 8:11:40 AM PST by Grunthor (Do you worship the State or do you worship the Lord? There is no middle ground.)
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To: presidio9

“It obviously needs to be repeated again and again on this conservative website: If you are not prepared to vote for the Republican candidate (even Mitt Romney) to defeat Barak Obama, you don’t belong here”

Wow. I thought everyone knew where Jim stood on Romney.


46 posted on 12/31/2011 8:13:59 AM PST by Grunthor (Do you worship the State or do you worship the Lord? There is no middle ground.)
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To: presidio9

“if only because we won’t get three more Elana Kagens on SCOTUS under him.”

Really? So he has appointed nothing but pro-life strict constuctionists in the past?


47 posted on 12/31/2011 8:17:06 AM PST by Grunthor (Do you worship the State or do you worship the Lord? There is no middle ground.)
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To: sthguard

Paul voters are not necessarily from this planet.


48 posted on 12/31/2011 8:18:59 AM PST by Moby Grape (Formerly Impeach the Boy...name change necessary after the Marxist won)
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To: presidio9
Paul Voters Not Necessarily Party Voters

Gee....can't put one over the New York Times.

49 posted on 12/31/2011 8:23:10 AM PST by eddie willers
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To: humblegunner
It's very telling that you call him "Dr. Paul".

Is Ron Paul not a doctor? Has he not delivered thousands of babies? Did he not serve in the U.S. Air Force and Air National Guard as a flight surgeon?

50 posted on 12/31/2011 10:19:00 AM PST by Roninf5-1
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