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Video: Bachmann takes down Ron Paul on Iran (Plus a wrap-up of last night's debate)
Hotair ^ | 12/16/2011 | Ed Morrissey

Posted on 12/16/2011 8:02:44 AM PST by SeekAndFind

I can't guarantee you that this will be the last video we post from last night's debate, but it's probably going to be the most memorable — after Rick Perry's gestalt-grasping clip in which he declared himself the “Tim Tebow of the Iowa Caucuses,” that is. In this clip, Michele Bachmann goes after Ron Paul on Iran and national security as if she takes him seriously. Paul is reduced to sputtering a non-sequitur about how wrong it is to declare war on 1.2 billion Muslims, which isn’t at all what Bachmann said, and more or less becomes unable to complete most of his own sentences, the majority of which are also non-sequiturs. No matter what one thinks of Bachmann, you can’t deny her ability to get under the skin of other candidates:

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE VIDEO

One of my favorite moments in this debate came when Paul tells Bachmann that the “UN” never said any such thing, and then in the next breath says they weren’t telling the truth when they did. It provoked a few laughs from the audience and a whole avalanche of derision on Twitter. The mask well and truly slipped for Paul in this final debate.

So how did the Republican candidates do? Mitt Romney started off strong and was having one of his best debates in weeks until Chris Wallace asked him about his position switches on abortion, gay rights, and gun laws. He gave a good answer on his transformation to pro-life, but left himself wide open on gay rights. Rick Santorum had his best moment of the debate when he methodically walked through what Romney actually did and said on defending marriage. That didn’t turn the night into a disaster, but Romney didn’t finish strong. Santorum did well last night, too, and given his blanketing of Iowa for the last several months, might have given voters there a reason to give him a second look.

Gingrich had a better debate all the way through, but he took a few slings and arrows along the way. He took some hits on Freddie Mac again, especially from Bachmann, but gave a good rebuttal to those attacks — although clearly no one is thinking that Freddie Mac hired him as a historian. Bachmann scored on the argument that one doesn’t have to be a formal lobbyist to influence people in Washington, and it seems foolish to argue that Freddie Mac didn’t hire him as a consultant for his influence on public policy as a former Speaker. No one is buying the “historian” idea. Otherwise, Gingrich gave a feisty and charismatic performance, or at least charismatic in Gingrich’s terms. He didn’t do any damage to himself, and at the least Gingrich gave himself some room to reclaim a little of his lost momentum.

Rick Perry had the best risk/reward outcome in the debate. As I predicted, no one on stage went on the attack against Perry, and that meant Perry didn’t have to go on the attack against anyone else. The Tebow reference was obviously planned, and brilliant; it’s catchy, timely, easily understood as a deep underdog prevailing through faith in himself and God despite being dismissed by everyone else as the clock starts running out. Perry didn’t get quite as much face time as other candidates, but he made the most of it. After two good debates, and this latest especially strong performance, Perry now gets to do the retail politicking at which he excels without having to engage in any extemporaneous exchanges with other candidates. He could turn this into a comeback, and really be the Tim Tebow of the Iowa Caucuses. Don’t count him out.

As for Bachmann, she had a good evening as well, but made a couple of big mistakes. After scoring points on Gingrich on Freddie Mac, she overshot the mark by accusing Gingrich of trying to elect Republicans who back infanticide. Gingrich slapped back at Bachmann for not getting her facts straight, which has been a problem for Bachmann in the past. Even though Bachmann has regularly attacked other candidates for not telling the truth, at least as she sees it, she protested that her status as a candidate for President of the United States means that her facts are straight, and that it’s “outrageous” to suggest otherwise:

Bachmann earlier had cited Politifact as stating that she had all her facts straight in the last debate, a strange thing to do since Politifact has been roundly critical of Bachmann’s debate claims for months. Sure enough, immediately after the debate, they gave her a Pants On Fire rating for that claim:

At that point, Bachmann jumped back in. “Well, after the debates that we had last week, PolitiFact came out and said that everything that I said was true. And the evidence is that Speaker Gingrich took $1.6 million. You don’t need to be within the technical definition of being a lobbyist to still be influence-peddling with senior Republicans in Washington, D.C., to get them to do your bidding.”

Wait… what? We said that “everything” Bachmann had said was true?

Actually, that’s not what we said.

At the Dec. 10 debate she was referring to, PolitiFact checked two claims from Bachmann and rated them Mostly True and Pants on Fire.

The fact-check she may have been referencing was, “In 1993, Newt Gingrich ‘first advocated for the individual mandate in health care. And as recently as May of this year, he was still advocating’ for it.” We rated that one a Mostly True.

But we also rated her claim that Mitt Romney, as governor of Massachusetts, “put into place socialized medicine.” We found that was ridiculously false and rated it Pants on Fire.

Her comment about our ratings was also a bit of a non-sequitur. Neither of the two items we checked addressed the subject at hand — Gingrich’s work for Freddie Mac, what he thinks of Freddie Mac today, or whether Gingrich was ever a lobbyist.

Maybe Bachmann was simply trying to burnish her image as a truth teller. However, using PolitiFact to back up that assertion is a bit unusual. Her PolitiFact report card shows 59 percent of her statements rated have earned either a False or Pants on Fire. She has earned five Trues, three Mostly Trues, six Half Trues, seven Mostly Falses, 19 Falses and 11 Pants on Fires.

That’s so easily checkable that it’s almost unbelievable that Bachmann would cite Politifact as a specific authority on the subject. Has she not read their site and their evaluations of her statements? Their evaluations certainly put paid to the notion that being a presidential candidate means one should just assume you have your facts straight, too.

As for Jon Huntsman, it’s hard to see why he bothered to show up. He isn’t competing meaningfully in Iowa anyway. Huntsman didn’t offer any compelling narrative or responses last night, so he would have done better for his campaign to stay in New Hampshire and do some retail politicking in a state he’s taking seriously.

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR ALL THE VIDEOS



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 911truther; bachmann; bombbombbombbombiran; debate; gopdebate; iowagopdebate; iran; israel; libertarians; michelebachmann; paulistinians; paultardation; paultards; randpaultruthfile; ronpaul; ronpaultruthfile
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1 posted on 12/16/2011 8:02:56 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Darksheare

Savor it.


2 posted on 12/16/2011 8:05:09 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (I want a hippopotamus for Christmas! Only a hippopotamus will do!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Bachmann needs to get a real fact check. Grabbing little bites without the full text of what Newt said and stood for was a foolish thing. But her roast of the silly nitwit Ron Paul was right on.
3 posted on 12/16/2011 8:07:54 AM PST by Logical me
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m glad that Ron Paul is still in the debates. He brings humor and laughter to an otherwise dull boring debate. OTT he’s scary.


4 posted on 12/16/2011 8:11:51 AM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: SeekAndFind

Nice summary and I agree for the most part. I still am holding out hope for Santorum in IA. It is anyone’s to win out there. Polls are meaningless in that state.


5 posted on 12/16/2011 8:13:11 AM PST by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Bachmann and Paul are easily the most self-enamored, petty, and hateful of the bunch. Both are also the most careless with stating facts and most willing to use half-truths and distortion to attack the others.

At one time I was considering Bachmann quite seriously, but she has repeatedly demonstrated that she lacks a core of integrity.
6 posted on 12/16/2011 8:13:43 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Paul’s refusal to acknowledge the threat posed by Iran is just inconceivable.

Its a lot like claiming that Hitler didn’t pose an immediate threat to us so we shouldn’t worry about a European war.


7 posted on 12/16/2011 8:13:48 AM PST by cripplecreek (Stand with courage or shut up and do as you're told.)
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To: Logical me

Silly? All I heard in Ron Paul’s response was that he wanted to adhere to the constitution. Not going to war without a constitutional declaration.

Sounds like constitutional conservatism to me.

When did it get to be “conservative” to waste billions blowing up things in the middle east, only to spend billions building roads and schools over there, when the roads are crumbling over here. We are out of money.

If we want security, pull troops out of Iraq and put them on the border with Mexico. The people invading from the south believe they own the land. Get the heck out of the middle east and every where else and take care of what is happening at home.


8 posted on 12/16/2011 8:14:33 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: cripplecreek

I didn’t hear him saying Iran isn’t a threat.


9 posted on 12/16/2011 8:16:06 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: rokkitapps

Then you aren’t listening.


10 posted on 12/16/2011 8:17:03 AM PST by cripplecreek (Stand with courage or shut up and do as you're told.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Constantly being on the attack doesn’t work for men running for office. Why would someone believe it would work for a woman?


11 posted on 12/16/2011 8:17:18 AM PST by brownsfan (Aldous Huxley and Mike Judge were right.)
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To: cripplecreek
Paul said that the US had killed ONE MILLION Iraqis. Hannity called him on it after the debate, and Paul repeated the statement.

Anyone who can still support this clown needs to have their head examined..

12 posted on 12/16/2011 8:18:18 AM PST by ken5050 (Support Admin Mods: Doing the tough, hard, dirty jobs that Americans won't do...)
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To: SeekAndFind
His Cuban Missile Crisis analogy was way off. There was not just "talk" between the US and USSR. The Soviets were shown we were prepared to go to war over nukes in Cuba if push came to shove. It nearly did.

Iran is a totally different regime, led by Twelvers, hell-bent on causing death and destruction.......Israel's in particular.

The Soviets had plenty to lose. The Iranian leadership believes this paves the way for the madhi's return. There's no legit comparison between the two.

13 posted on 12/16/2011 8:19:35 AM PST by edpc (Wilby 2012)
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To: SeekAndFind
Ron Paul would be at least as dangerous to our country as Barack Obama.
Paul’s policies would bring real damage to us from an outside enemy.
14 posted on 12/16/2011 8:19:50 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (I love how the FR spellchecker doesn't recognize the word "Obama")
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To: cripplecreek

What I heard was that we are broke, back off from Iran, and if they do something, declare war constitutionally and fight.


15 posted on 12/16/2011 8:19:59 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: HereInTheHeartland

I don’t see how he is more dangerous than Obama. Have you seen the pudgy lesbians he appointed to the supreme court? All the muslim quislings Obama placed in CIA, FBI, NSA, etc?

no way Paul is as bad as Obama


16 posted on 12/16/2011 8:22:24 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: rokkitapps
If we want security, pull troops out of Iraq and put them on the border with Mexico. The people invading from the south believe they own the land. Get the heck out of the middle east and every where else and take care of what is happening at home.

This is pretty much a textbook example of naïveté.

17 posted on 12/16/2011 8:24:00 AM PST by edpc (Wilby 2012)
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To: edpc

We are being actively invaded by the country to the south, please explain how I am naive?


18 posted on 12/16/2011 8:25:52 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: edpc

And it really doesn’t matter whether I am naive or not, we are ruled by the constitution, and we go to war by declaring war. When did it get conservative to allow Barry to fly drones in every country and shoot their citizens. I am not saying don’t do it because it makes them mad, I am saying don’t do it because it is illegal under our constitution. If they go far enough, we declare war and crush them. You call it naive, I call it the constitution.


19 posted on 12/16/2011 8:28:01 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: rokkitapps

You believe isolationism equals security.


20 posted on 12/16/2011 8:28:17 AM PST by edpc (Wilby 2012)
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To: rokkitapps

Ron Paul IS crazy....”Free bananas!”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w2-n3U5Mm4


21 posted on 12/16/2011 8:29:30 AM PST by TheCause ("that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States")
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To: HereInTheHeartland
Ron Paul would be at least as dangerous to our country as Barack Obama. Paul’s policies would bring real damage to us from an outside enemy.

Actually the one good thing about a Paul presidency is the fact that congress would render him an ineffective figurehead at every turn.
22 posted on 12/16/2011 8:29:41 AM PST by cripplecreek (Stand with courage or shut up and do as you're told.)
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To: SeekAndFind
and it seems foolish to argue that Freddie Mac didn’t hire him as a consultant for his influence on public policy as a former Speaker. No one is buying the “historian” idea.

What Newt did was not illegal and nothing to do with the corruption ( which Frank and Dodd covered up )there.

What I don't like is the concept is wrong to begin with and Newt should not have supported it

No way banks should be giving mortgages to those not qualified under normal banking standards
23 posted on 12/16/2011 8:29:53 AM PST by uncbob
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To: rokkitapps
“no way Paul is as bad as Obama”

When he guts our national defense and we reap those consequences; you will see how bad he is.

24 posted on 12/16/2011 8:32:11 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (I love how the FR spellchecker doesn't recognize the word "Obama")
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To: HereInTheHeartland

Our defense budget should be cut in half MINIMUM. We have 11 carrier groups - no other country has more than 1 and most of those are POS carriers.

I don’t understand conservatives who hate big government except for “big defense”. I am a conservative who says big defense is part of big government and also part of the problem.

We are broke, we have to cut spending in govt everywhere. And yes, that means, GASP. The military. We have 11 carrier groups, we don’t need to be on the ground everywhere. We have a great navy and air force. Bring our troops home and stop the invasion by mexico.

We are broke, we can project power with half the budget we have now. The military industrial complex is a beast unto itself.

I am a pure conservative. Big govt of any kind is bad.


25 posted on 12/16/2011 8:37:15 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: Sudetenland
>>At one time I was considering Bachmann quite seriously, but she has repeatedly demonstrated that she lacks a core of integrity.<<

That’s a fact. Every one of her attacks is based on less than the whole truth. She’s obviously not secure in her own qualifications and record.

26 posted on 12/16/2011 8:37:45 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: HereInTheHeartland

What Paul doesn’t understand is that the Ayatollah Khomeini was downright moderate compared to the nutjubs running the show now.

They’re hellbent on bringing the Mahdi to earth by washing the world in blood. The Ayatollah thought they were psycho and kept them from having real power when he was alive and he was an evil bastard.


27 posted on 12/16/2011 8:37:45 AM PST by cripplecreek (Stand with courage or shut up and do as you're told.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Paul is reduced to sputtering a non-sequitur about how wrong it is to declare war on 1.2 billion Muslims

The Moslims declared war on us twice (in 1995 & 1998).

28 posted on 12/16/2011 8:38:10 AM PST by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: mjp

RE: The Moslims declared war on us twice (in 1995 & 1998).

Remind us again what the significance of those dates was...

Also, how does that refute the Ron Paul thesis that the Muslims hate us because we have been intruding on Middle East affairs for the longest time.


29 posted on 12/16/2011 8:40:14 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Ron Paul looks and sounds like he can’t find the light switch.


30 posted on 12/16/2011 8:43:33 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (Perry Christmas & Happy Newt Year!)
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To: HereInTheHeartland

I don’t mind that you don’t like Paul..and I’m not exactly a full-blown supporter. That being said, When I listen to him, I don’t think he wants to gut our defense...I think last night he said he wants a strong national defense. I just don’t think he wants to be all over the world in hassles that amount to U.S. money being spent, our soldiers blood being spilled and yet it’s not a war.

I don’t have any doubt that Paul would go to war. But that’s the key..I think he will demand that troops be sent with a fully declared war.


31 posted on 12/16/2011 8:43:37 AM PST by stillafreemind
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To: stillafreemind

I agree. That is pretty much what I heard him say..


32 posted on 12/16/2011 8:47:33 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: SeekAndFind
Western "intrusion" into the Middle East has given those nations wealth and power with the only thing they have to offer the world: Oil.

Otherwise, they'd still be a collection of random, warring tribes, herding goats, and selling rugs/spices.

33 posted on 12/16/2011 8:48:26 AM PST by edpc (Wilby 2012)
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To: rokkitapps; edpc
“We are being actively invaded by the country to the south, please explain how I am naive?”

OK, you are naive ( or just stupid) because you don't even know that lunatic Ron Paul could care less about that border and would do nothing to stop that invasion.

Face it, he is a brainless nitwit, gadfly, that belongs in a straight-jacket.

34 posted on 12/16/2011 8:51:25 AM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: Sudetenland

“At one time I was considering Bachmann quite seriously, but she has repeatedly demonstrated that she lacks a core of integrity.”

Precisely. Good resume, perfect cover letter, shifty and unsettling applicant.


35 posted on 12/16/2011 8:51:31 AM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: rokkitapps
“I don’t understand conservatives who hate big government except for “big defense”. I am a conservative who says big defense is part of big government and also part of the problem.”

A strong defense is the only legitimate thing our government SHOULD be doing. I don't know how many carrier groups we need; I'll let the experts answer that one. But I do know our Navy now is much smaller than under Reagan.

36 posted on 12/16/2011 8:54:50 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (I love how the FR spellchecker doesn't recognize the word "Obama")
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To: rokkitapps
We are broke, we can project power with half the budget we have now. The military industrial complex is a beast unto itself.

Two issues. 1) You say that you are just viewing our defense policy in terms of the Constitution, but then say that we should cut defense funding. Funding for the defense is pretty much one of the ONLY spending powers the Constitution allows. And 2) Defense funding has enabled MANY technologies to filter down to other sectors and is a HUGE boom to our economy as opposed to most of the other Government spending that occurs.

Should we cut ALL funding including defense? Sure, but not in half. No way. This is what Clinton did and it made us a weak target in the eyes of the islamists which continued to declare war on us with no reciprocal response by us.
37 posted on 12/16/2011 8:57:14 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty (Shaking My Head on a daily basis)
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To: edpc

RE: Western “intrusion” into the Middle East has given those nations wealth and power with the only thing they have to offer the world: Oil.

_________________________

I believe Ron Paul is referring to our unqualified support for Israel, “THE LITTLE SATAN” ( note the quotes ). This support for Israel ( Including helping arm her ) gives us the hated Middle Eastern monicker, “THE GREAT SATAN”.

In Paul’s eyes, the sooner we abandon Israel, the less chances of our being attacked...


38 posted on 12/16/2011 8:59:03 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Beagle8U; rokkitapps
Ron Paul could care less about that border and would do nothing to stop that invasion.

You are correct. Ron Paul is a non-interventionist and as such, believes that open borders and free trade is the way to go.
39 posted on 12/16/2011 9:01:15 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty (Shaking My Head on a daily basis)
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To: Beagle8U

Well wake my stupid/naive self when you have a medical degree and years in the air force and congress, then I will listen to your stupid/naive opinion.


40 posted on 12/16/2011 9:01:46 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: edpc

RE: Western “intrusion” into the Middle East has given those nations wealth and power with the only thing they have to offer the world: Oil.

_________________________

I believe Ron Paul is referring to our unqualified support for Israel, “THE LITTLE SATAN” ( note the quotes ). This support for Israel ( Including helping arm her ) gives us the hated Middle Eastern monicker, “THE GREAT SATAN”.

In Paul’s eyes, the sooner we abandon Israel, the less chances of our being attacked...


41 posted on 12/16/2011 9:03:13 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: edpc

RE: Western “intrusion” into the Middle East has given those nations wealth and power with the only thing they have to offer the world: Oil.

_________________________

I believe Ron Paul is referring to our unqualified support for Israel, “THE LITTLE SATAN” ( note the quotes ). This support for Israel ( Including helping arm her ) gives us the hated Middle Eastern monicker, “THE GREAT SATAN”.

In Paul’s eyes, the sooner we abandon Israel, the less chances of our being attacked...


42 posted on 12/16/2011 9:03:13 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Eagle of Liberty

I haven’t heard Ron Paul advocate open borders. You are making that up out of thin air, pal.


43 posted on 12/16/2011 9:03:28 AM PST by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: SeekAndFind

Bachman said that an “avowed madman” was going to drop nuclear bombs and Israel and American and then go on to take over the whole world.


44 posted on 12/16/2011 9:05:35 AM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: cripplecreek

“They’re hellbent on bringing the Mahdi to earth by washing the world in blood.”

I think that is why there is so much domestic discord and strife. The sane Persians realize they will be caught up in the same retributive firestorms as the aspiring martyrs, and are desperate to stop it.


45 posted on 12/16/2011 9:06:21 AM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Whether we supported Israel or not, the region holds significant strategic importance for us and other nations. If they don’t like Western influence, they would have loved Soviet domination or really enjoy potential Chinese overlords.


46 posted on 12/16/2011 9:10:46 AM PST by edpc (Wilby 2012)
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To: Mr. Silverback

LOL, thanks!


47 posted on 12/16/2011 9:11:13 AM PST by Darksheare (You will never defeat Bok Choy!)
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To: rokkitapps

Okay, not fully open borders, but the LP platform is considerably more open borders than I would be comfortable with.


48 posted on 12/16/2011 9:19:57 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty (Shaking My Head on a daily basis)
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To: SeekAndFind

Ron Paul took himself down, just like Bachmann did to herself.


49 posted on 12/16/2011 9:23:48 AM PST by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: SeekAndFind

He seriously thinks that reducing nuclear weapons will keep Iran from having nukes?
He’s a moron.
The muslims aren’t attacking us because we are bombing them, we weren’t bombing them in 2001.
Ron Paul, a moron extreme.
He needs to be shown the Quran.
He wants the UN report?
Since when is the UN an authority of anything?


50 posted on 12/16/2011 9:23:55 AM PST by Darksheare (You will never defeat Bok Choy!)
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