Here's Hoping Herman Cain Will Stay In the Race

FOXNEWS.com ^ | December 2, 2011 | Dr. Alveda King

[NautiNurse]

In the 15th Century, “Lady Justice” was introduced wearing a blindfold. Her sightlessness was meant to represent objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out without fear or favor, regardless of identity, money, power or weakness. Blind justice and impartiality should be the goal.

[snip]

Suddenly, while Mr. Cain is soaring at the top of the polls, proposing to scrap our three million word tax code for a simpler, fairer, pro-growth 9-9-9 plan (getting rid of the tax code would arguably be the largest transfer of power from the government to the people since the U.S. Constitution was ratified. No wonder the establishment resists such an agent of change) he is besieged by the media, suffering “death of a thousand cuts,” as described by Cain Senior Adviser, Niger Innis.

For six unrelenting weeks, Mr. Cain has been the target of attacks on his character. His accusers have yet to prove anything, yet the man has been judged guilty in the court of public opinion without even a semblance of a fair trial.

[snip]

We the people must demand a more just political process. If someone is going to talk about another person’s character, they must have irrefutable proof and not just their word. The people should demand this and so should the media. A political campaign should address the many troubling issues facing the nation and not have to waste its resources defending meaningless allegations.

We must demand that the media reports on the issues, and let us see the platforms of the candidates. In the face of these attacks, on Mr. Cain and other presidential hopefuls, I’m inclined to find that Tabloid Justice is indeed blind, but far from objective.

[alamogal]

I previously backed Cain on this issue, as the accuser has not produced any real evidence. But, I am concerned as, what at first was “a friend to my wife and myself,” is now “No, my wife did not know her, nor did she know I was giving money to this woman.” There seems to be, sadly, something to the accuser’s allegations. Otherwise, Herman would be thumping his chest and screaming. He seems a little quiet.

As to comments on Rove on the board, I agree. Why doesn’t he go hide in a closet, after the debacle he helped create under George W.? Why is he even booked as a guest? I would bet his poll numbers, as to trust and likeability are as low as Congress.

[NautiNurse]

Per AJC 1:30 p.m. has been the most oft mentioned time for Cain to appear today.

[dirtboy]

I would still vote for Cain if he was the nominee as well, and would prefer him over Newt and Romney, in that order. He just went down a big notch IMO as the best choice for anti-Romney. At this point, I really have no idea who is. So I guess I’ll see what goes down over the next 2-3 weeks and if anyone can pick up their game and offer a substantive challenge to Newt and Romney.

[loucon]

No, the question is how many documented cups of coffee did Cain buy for this woman.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

I initially thought that myself, but looking back, Newt was never really a beltway insider. That is the main reason that Lott and the GOP cronies threw him under the bus and acquitted Slick Willie.

Newt has also been out of Washington for over 15 years and is not really connected. But looking back, Newt was never ever really connected. It's why he received a 100% Conservative rating from the ACU during his time served in the House.

Nobody understands how to get this government back on it's feet faster or better than Newt, and I mean that from a Conservative perspective.

[Sal]

How much did he give her and how often? You don't know! Neither do I. He's a Baptist minister and regularly helps people out financially. His wife knows that.

Saying that he was keeping secrets from his wife for charitable giving is silliness indeed unless you believe he was having a thirteen year affair including the year he was practically dead from fighting cancer.

If he was having the affair, then he was keeping secrets from Gloria. If he wasn't having the affair, he wasn't keeping secrets from her.

Personally, I think it's silliness to assume a known and documented liar and defamer is telling the truth with her only excuse for turning in her (admittedly kind, respectful and generous) alleged adulterous partner being that she felt sorry for how he treated the serial sue-ers who scored a year's salary each for their accusations and the totally non-credible Bialek (she's a joke). (You will notice that they evaporated the instant they faced legal opposition.)

It's worse than silliness IMO. It's BS!

[1rudeboy]

Back up a little. Cain admits to the allegation that payments were made (and the wife was not informed). Admits. The allegation is no longer. Stop parsing.

[nutmeg]

Per AJC 1:30 p.m. has been the most oft mentioned time for Cain to appear today.

Thanks, NN! Darn, I may not be around to see it live and to comment on FR at that time...

[Netizen]

I couldn’t watch all the video, the guy was soooo boring. Too much lag between thought and word. Should have thought out what he wanted to say before making the video.

I can say though that my sil just went through stage 4 colorectal cancer and there’s no way she would have been able to have maintained an affair. She had chemo, then radiation, then surgery, then more chemo and then hyperbaric chamber.

Not to mention the various doctor’s appointments and the nurse that would stop by to check on the large wound left after surgery which needed a lot of care. She had this surgery about this time last year and just last week was told she no longer needed to pack the wound, just to make sure she cleaned it well during her shower and cover it to keep anything from getting into it, plus it still drains a bit.

I highly doubt that Cain would have maintained a sexual dalliance during this time. jmo

[Guenevere]

I stand with Mr. Cain!

[AmericanInTokyo]

((dirtboy))

[ClearBlueSky]

AMEN! THANK YOU!
While Republicans search for the Apostle/Jesus candidate, Satan/Obama is digging in.
We look for messiahs then destroy them.
No mortal human is sinless.
Insisting on a perfect candidate to defeat Obama is like waiting for a cruise ship instead of a rowboat while you’re drowning.
Perfection or death. Choose.

I hope he stays in. He’ll have my vote.

[loucon]

Back up a little. Cain admits to the allegation that payments were made (and the wife was not informed). Admits. The allegation is no longer. Stop parsing.

...and I agreed to that.

You're the one who first used the term "documented" and made a big point of using it. That is what I called you on.

[1rudeboy]

so no, you cannot infer that documentation exists based solely on its acknowledgement

So yes, you can . . . especially when the payments occurred over the space of thirteen years.

And even if Cain left no paper trail, the existence of documentation is irrelevant because he ADMITS doing it. They are no longer alleged payments. That was the comment that brought me to this thread.

That, and the tortured definition of alms-giving.

[Sal]

I'm of the opinion that Herman Cain, in many moments of Christian charity, gave money to lots of people in need, this woman being one. This act, being so frequent and ordinary to him, occupies a place in his memory that is not associated with guilt, so does not register as something to “admit” to when running for public office.

Thank you! You said very efficiently and clearly what I was flailing around to express. It seems so obvious.

[alamogal]

Sadly, you’re leaving out some documented facts. You don’t give your personal cell number to every person you donate money to, and you certainly don’t return a text message to them at 4 am. I like Cain, but he has some “esplainin’ to do.”

[1rudeboy]

You're the one who first used the term "documented" and made a big point of using it.

Ok, so change "documented" to "admitted." Now go after the guy who used "alleged" with the same fervor. Because he was incorrect by an order of magnitude worse.

[dirtboy]

Saying that he was keeping secrets from his wife for charitable giving is silliness indeed unless you believe he was having a thirteen year affair including the year he was practically dead from fighting cancer.

You can choose to rationalize away the significance of such. I don't. I doubt one woman in 100 would accept their husband hiding such support to another woman from them, no matter what the underlying motive. All it would take is Cain telling her that it was happening. And Cain didn't say such.

[Netizen]

If I recall correctly that person is divorced. If I’m wrong they can clear it up. OMG, maybe she left him because he gave money to someone without asking her permission and that is why he sees this as a marriage breaker! ;) /s

[1rudeboy]

Sadly, you’re leaving out some documented facts.

There's that word again. You are really in for it, now.

[1rudeboy]

I doubt one woman in 100 would accept their husband hiding such support to another woman from them, no matter what the underlying motive.

If I tried to pull that stunt with any of the women I was thinking of marrying, you'd be hearing gunshots. This ain't France (except on this thread).

[dirtboy]

I am married, my second marriage. My first marriage was very short-lived and would have been annulled by the Catholic Church without much of a fight. I’ll leave the details at that.

[loucon]

There's that word again. You are really in for it, now.

LOL. Guess you really don't like word games all that much, now do you?

[1rudeboy]

Oh, I’m still here. Have you looked up the definition of “alleged,” yet? I thought your heart was in it.

[alamogal]

Thanks for the warning. I welcome correction, but in this instance, I don’t believe Cain has admitted to the fact that this woman had his personal cell phone number, or about the 4am texting. However, I believe members of the media who have seen the cellphone/text records have vouched for this..i.e.documented. I haven’t followed this as closely as some, so, stand to be corrected.

[1rudeboy]

Here, let me help you out a little.

What did Cain receive for alleged 'payment'?

Is the above statement true or false, bearing in mind that Cain has admitted to making payments?

[Lakeshark]

I just don't believe that based solely on giving this woman money to help her out proves that on its own.

Of course it doesn't. Unfortunately his acknowledgment of the "donations" is going to make it really tough for him to rebound.

It is grossly unfair, but I always thought Palin could have rebounded and overcome the nasty MSM smears had she run, at this point I have less confidence in Cain to do so.

They are going to go after Newt hard now that he is the front runner.

[Sal]

But, I am concerned as, what at first was “a friend to my wife and myself,” is now “No, my wife did not know her, nor did she know I was giving money to this woman.”

That sounds like a lie on his part, but the only place I've seen the statement that the woman was a friend of Gloria's as well was a statement from someone who claimed to have been in on a conference call where Cain said that. This was posted here on FR.

Later I saw a transcript of that call and it did NOT include a statement that the woman was a friend of Gloria's too. Now it's possible Cain said it somewhere else that I don't know about, but if you're relying on that conference call report, Cain didn't say it there. Unless of course you think the transcript was altered.

It just bothers me so much that it's so easy to jump on stuff that later turns out not to be accurate. I include myself in that as well. I used to trust things that FReepers reported on, but having gone through the last couple months, not so much anymore. Some of it is honest mistakes or misunderstandings I'm sure, but some of it isn't that innocent. (That's not aimed at you.)

[rdb3]

The phrase "rush to judgment" was never more appropriate than when witnessing the recent comments by allegedly intelligent conservatives right here on this forum, concluding that Herman Cain must be guilty of something, never mind that the veracity and trustworthiness of the so-called 'victims' were on a level reserved for used car salesmen and Nigerian scam email writers.

Indeed. Makes you wonder how these types will never just believe anything from the MSM except when it could suit their arguments, whether it's true what the MSM says or not.

I call these types "cafeteria conservatives", who pick and choose what they want to believe.

25 years ago, we had Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash, and Bob Hope.
Today we have Obama, no cash, and no hope!

If you can't appreciate the pure beauty of the violin after hearing this, something's wrong with your ears.

Or you can get raw with these strings. Either way, the violin is sweet yet lethal.

Do it!

[Netizen]

Helping someone out over the course of 13 years just might mean that he said call me if you need help. Its possible.

[savage woman]

I would like to buy one ticket for the Cain Train.
Leaving around 1:30 - ALL ABOARD...

[Theodore R.]

Usually when a politician says he is staying in office or not leaving a race because of a cloud, it’s the first step to actual withdrawal from politics.

[1rudeboy]

The MSM didn’t admit to making the payments. Cain did. All that is left is making a value-judgement about whether the payments were appropriate. And, as you see, there is debate.

[loucon]

Good, I wouldn't want you to go based on our dialog.

I don't need to look up the definition of alleged, or for that matter, acknowledged or documented.

the existence of documentation is irrelevant because he ADMITS doing it.

Do I interpret your meaning correctly as:

Whether a document exists or a document does not exist prior to its discovery, it has no relevance to the matter if in the matter one party alleges something and the other party acknowledges it as true?

[varina davis]

Perhaps the reason for all the hedging is because his campaign was informed that more of Cain’s history will be leaked soon. Maybe the first women to allege misconduct backed away because they were told Ginger White was ready to make an appearance.

He said he didn’t tell his wife about Ginger and he did say he had also helped a male friend. Mr. Cain is very wealthy and maybe thought he was too big to fail.

[GloriaJane]

"He has admitted he never told his wife about the money given to Ms. White."

None of us know why Mr. Cain didn't tell his wife any more then you know why he didn't tell her. All we can do is speculate.

But if he was acting in his capacity as a assistant minister or what ever, it isn't anyone's business, including his wife why he gave that woman any money.

Do you want your minister telling everyone he knows the private details of your life with his wife?

That's something I would like to know. How many here would want their minister in their church putting their private business in the streets?

[Netizen]

Ok, so change "documented" to "admitted." Now go after the guy who used "alleged" with the same fervor. Because he was incorrect by an order of magnitude worse.

Shame shame you didn't ping me but I think you are talking about my post where I said this from post #101:

When you pay for something, you get something in return. What did Cain receive for alleged 'payment'?

Notice that I used quote marks on the word 'payment' not alleged, calling into question the word PAYMENT. Since we have proof of Cain receiving anything for an alleged PAYMENT, he may not have made a PAYMENT, but may have instead given her money when she needed money. Charity, donation, alms etc. He may have acknowledged giving her money, but so far I haven't read or heard him say that he paid her money as in a payment for something or service in return.

Payments are money owed, like in rent, car payments, utilities etc. So, in conclusion it was an ALLEGED PAYMENT that I was questioning. I suppose its possible that he could have made the payment on her rent if he didn't trust her to use the money for the rent. Doesn't this woman have kids? Maybe he is helping the kids more than he is helping her. Just another possibility.

[1rudeboy]

If you stipulate something to be true, you'd be a bonehead to allege (there's a word, for you) that it is false. In a court of law, you'd be prevented from doing so. This is not a court of law, I understand, this is a FR thread--where someone can write:

alleged 'payments' [I didn't notice the apostrophes, earlier]

simultaneously implying that the payments did not happen, and if they did, they are "alms" and not payments at all.

Alms are not payments--wrap your mind around that one. LOL

[1rudeboy]

No shame at all, here. I challenged you on your incorrect use of the term, and you didn’t respond. I am under no obligation to ping you every time I discuss it in the future.

[Netizen]

See #187

[SgtHooper]

I want to see him come out and announce that he is is NOT dropping out of the race, and that he is filing lawsuits against all persons making such charges, as well as any possible defendant in this matter. He would skyrocket past Newt!

[dirtboy]

Do you want your minister telling everyone he knows the private details of your life with his wife?

I will give you credit for probably the best attempt at spin on this. But in the end, Cain helped Ms. White with his own money, not church money. Which makes it his wife's business as well.

And as I said earlier, Cain could have defused this by coming clean with his wife before or even when he decided to enter the race. He didn't. No explanation for his failure to plan ahead speaks well of his understanding of what the race to win the GOP nomination would represent.

[1rudeboy]

See #188.

[loucon]

What did Cain receive for alleged 'payment'?

All though misleading, it is correct in that allegations don't cease to exist once they have been corroborated. More properly, it might have read something like this:

"What did Cain receive for alleged this 'payment'?"

or maybe more precisely as:

"What did Cain allegedly receive for this 'payment'?"

[1rudeboy]

Judging from the critical reasoning skills exhibited on this thread, I’ll consider it a victory if Cain refers to “payments,” instead of “alleged payments.”

[NautiNurse]

That's some colorful conjecture, complete with a smattering of two "maybe" and a "perhaps" to round out your fanciful guesstimate.

[1rudeboy]

Fair enough.

[Netizen]

Do you want your minister telling everyone he knows the private details of your life with his wife?

I know it isn't supposed to, but that sounds like dirtboy has something going on with the minister's wife! lol

[Netizen]

He said he didn’t tell his wife about Ginger and he did say he had also helped a male friend.

Oh great, now Cain will be called queer, too. /s

[GloriaJane]

LOL

It was supposed to say: Do you want your minister telling everyone he knows the private details of your life even with his wife?

Silly me, I left out the word even. LOL