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conservatives, romney, and electability
wsj ^ | 11.23.11 | michael medved

Posted on 11/23/2011 9:34:55 AM PST by ken21

Rush Limbaugh's favorite slogan, "Conservatism wins every time," is more a statement of wishful thinking than an accurate summary of electoral experience

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: conservatives; liberals; romney
comrades, get ready for the big media push,

and even the push by some on this forum,

to push us into the center.

1 posted on 11/23/2011 9:34:57 AM PST by ken21
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To: ken21

Rush did say that Obama was “unelectable” during the Texas primaries in 2008. I’ll never forget that day.


2 posted on 11/23/2011 9:36:51 AM PST by LurkedLongEnough
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To: ken21

The actual title has proper capitalization.


3 posted on 11/23/2011 9:38:17 AM PST by humblegunner (The kinder, gentler version...)
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To: ken21
Right. Let examine the electoral record.

Solid Conservative who won. Ronald Reagan. 2xs. In land slides.

Democrat Lite Rinos who won in landslides.....NONE

Democrat Lite Rinos who were crushed? GBush1 in 1992, Bob Dole in 1996 and John McCain in 2008.

Seems the “Wishful thinking” here is on Medved’s part.

4 posted on 11/23/2011 9:39:41 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: MNJohnnie

medevd’s a closet liberal.

i used to listen to him commuting in los angeles.

he bad-mouthed sarah palin.


5 posted on 11/23/2011 9:41:35 AM PST by ken21
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To: MNJohnnie

Well, in general I think Rush is right, but it is NOT a hard and fast rule. DeWine was FAR more conservative than Brown (loss); Santorum lost (and he is waaaay right); and in 2006 we lost several guys who were more conservative than RINO.


6 posted on 11/23/2011 9:41:53 AM PST by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: LurkedLongEnough

I recall a story in 2007 about how George Clooney had donated money to Barack Obama’s campaign.

A FReeper, I can’t remember who, replied that it was “money down the drain”. I agreed. Never did I think Barack Hussein Obama was electable.

Wish we had been right.


7 posted on 11/23/2011 9:45:12 AM PST by Retired Greyhound (.)
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To: ken21
and even the push by some on this forum...

Why aren't sociocons rallying behind Santorum? Isn't he the most social conservative candidate running? Who are the conservative champions? Where are they?

8 posted on 11/23/2011 9:50:04 AM PST by rhombus
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To: ken21
Rush Limbaugh's favorite slogan, "Conservatism wins every time," is more a statement of wishful thinking than an accurate summary of electoral experience

Medved makes the point that Reagan lost to moderates Nixon and Ford in the primaries and that Goldwater lost to Johnson in the general. All instances of establishment hacks working against the party base.

I guess Rush's statement should be that conservatism “wins every time we are able to crush the establishment quislings like Medved.”

9 posted on 11/23/2011 9:50:38 AM PST by RightOnTheBorder
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To: RightOnTheBorder

Amen!!


10 posted on 11/23/2011 9:52:44 AM PST by MachIV
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To: rhombus
Why aren't sociocons rallying behind Santorum?

I think some are. Others just don't have a warm, fuzzy about him. It's a personality thing, I think.

11 posted on 11/23/2011 9:55:10 AM PST by freespirited
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To: rhombus

it’s the season of the election cycle that we are being asked to

give up our conservative ideas

and vote for liberal republicans.


12 posted on 11/23/2011 9:55:55 AM PST by ken21
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To: Retired Greyhound
Never did I think Barack Hussein Obama was electable.

I went even further.

I switched my registration to "Democrat" so I could vote for Obama in the NH Primary in 2008, because he would be so easy to beat.

13 posted on 11/23/2011 9:56:55 AM PST by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: ken21

but you didn’t answer my question.


14 posted on 11/23/2011 10:00:15 AM PST by rhombus
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To: RightOnTheBorder

the socialist dems have been playing “good cop”

to the liberal republican “bad cop”

for a century now. both lead to socialism, one faster than the other.

we’ve had one exception to that—ronald reagan, a conservative.


15 posted on 11/23/2011 10:00:24 AM PST by ken21
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To: Jim Noble
I switched my registration to "Democrat" so I could vote for Obama in the NH Primary in 2008, because he would be so easy to beat.

"Doh! Damn that ironic justice thing."--Homer Simpson

16 posted on 11/23/2011 10:02:08 AM PST by rhombus
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To: Retired Greyhound

“A FReeper, I can’t remember who, replied that it was “money down the drain”. I agreed. Never did I think Barack Hussein Obama was electable”. mccain was our candidate.....simple as that. go back to rule #1 from El Rushbo.


17 posted on 11/23/2011 10:03:59 AM PST by stickywillie (ALE)
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To: rhombus

i was thinking last night and this morning looking at the composite poll,

santorum doesn’t get traction.

santorum’s stuck at the bottom with huntsman.

granted, santorum has attractive conservative positions.

but he comes across as whiny.

beyond this, i have no answer for you.


18 posted on 11/23/2011 10:05:08 AM PST by ken21
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To: ken21

Medved shilled for McCain from the beginning of the 2007-2008 cycle. There are a lot of reasons why the GOP lost in 2008. McLame didn’t help matters.

Elections are between candidates more than they are about ideas.

McCain was a doddering old fool who crapped his pants when the financial crisis hit. Up to that point, he was actually slightly ahead in the polls and running a somewhat effective campaign. He was getting out front of most issues. He had stolen Obama’s post-DNC Convention thunder with the exciting Sarah Palin VP pick.

Then the financial crisis hit, and he panicked. McCain also refused to adequately attack and expose Obama as a radical. (In fact, I demanded that the McCain campaign return my contribution, since he refused to aggressively campaign).

Historically, the candidate with the most energized base tends to win. The 2008 GOP base was not energized. Moderates just ride the wave. Since the excitement was around Obama in 2008, that’s the way they went. A competent GOP candidate (was there one in 2008?) might have done better, but it was a bad GOP year with a bad GOP candidate. McCain didn’t give Medved’s “moderates” any compelling reason to vote for him over Obama.

I think that any of the GOP candidates, with the exception of Ron Paul, is likely to win in 2008. But that makes it all the more important that we nominate a true conservative.


19 posted on 11/23/2011 10:08:46 AM PST by Retired Greyhound (.)
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To: humblegunner

This entire thread is having capitalization problems.

I think someone’s SHIFT key is broken.


20 posted on 11/23/2011 10:11:24 AM PST by Retired Greyhound (.)
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To: ken21

OK, thanks. Doesn’t make sense to me. I fear we’re not a center right nation as much as we used to be. No, we’re not Europe yet as the election of 2010 demonstrated but we’ve raised a lot of generations on entitlements since the Reagan years and so many don’t know any other way of life. On the brighter side, there is more of a conservative media now than we had in the 80s which brings me back to the quesion, where are the conservative candidates?


21 posted on 11/23/2011 10:14:01 AM PST by rhombus
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To: LS
Santorum lost (and he is waaaay right);

No he's not, he may be on social issues but on fiscal ones he's super RINO. Remember he was the author of the prescription Drug pandering act.

But Rush is partially right, Fiscal Conservatism wins every time while Social Conservatism repels.

Example, Stem cells. In Red Missouri it was fought as a social issue and Conservatives lost, while the next year in Blue New Jersey it was fought as a fiscal issue and the result was Conservatives won.

22 posted on 11/23/2011 10:17:29 AM PST by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: Jim Noble

Did you have to switch? I thought NH had an open primary.

I have family in TX that switched to vote for Hillary in Operation Chaos.


23 posted on 11/23/2011 10:21:00 AM PST by Retired Greyhound (.)
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To: Retired Greyhound
I think someone’s SHIFT key is broken.

i've Been havinG thAt prOblem tOO, eVer siNce thE SHIFT Key hIt thE faN.

24 posted on 11/23/2011 10:23:28 AM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: Retired Greyhound

You can vote in either party’s primary if you are not enrolled in a party, but I was registered as a Republican, so I had to switch.


25 posted on 11/23/2011 10:28:56 AM PST by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: Retired Greyhound

“Never did I think Barack Hussein Obama was electable.”

Nor I. His name alone (not his fault) I thought made him unelectable.


26 posted on 11/23/2011 11:13:59 AM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: rhombus

“Why aren’t sociocons rallying behind Santorum? “

They (we?) perceive him as not charismatic enough to win a national race, I think.

It is hard for me to decide who to vote for in the primary. Should I vote for the person I’d most like to see in office? That would probably be Santorum. Or should I vote for the person most likely to beat Obama? Not sure who that would be.


27 posted on 11/23/2011 11:15:45 AM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: qam1

“while Social Conservatism repels.”

No, studies have shown there is a pro-life increment.

Those who will vote for someone because they are pro-life exceed those who will vote against them for the same reason; and those who will vote for someone because they support abortion are a smaller faction than those who will vote against them for the same reason.

Further, the majority of the states have passed laws/amendments that define marriage as between a man and a woman, in proactive defense against the homosexual agenda.


28 posted on 11/23/2011 11:19:38 AM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: ken21

The ‘center’ is where EVERYONE on the circumference can take a crap on you...no thanks, No Mitt (just no, in general), No Newt (amnesty), no Perry (amnesty)....


29 posted on 11/23/2011 11:22:40 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Jim Noble

Gaming the system will bite you in the ass. Despite what Rush STILL proclaims about his anti-Hillary campaign to urge voters to vote for Obama, he just plain a$$ effed up in my opinion. He’s not as smart as he thinks.


30 posted on 11/23/2011 11:24:17 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Persevero

I’m for ABO. Whatever it takes.


31 posted on 11/23/2011 11:29:01 AM PST by rhombus
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To: ken21

All sovereign governments around the world have borrowed more than they can repay.

Major banks own far too much of this debt to remain solvent when the governments default.

Unions and regulation and the prospect of $15 trillion in U.S. government debt which increases by more than $1 trillion every year are keeping the b2b tier of jobs in America slashed to a minimum.

Democrats are not going to take the correct actions.

Therefore by the fall of 2012 the economy will be faring anywhere from the same to much worse.

A centrist Republican will simply oversee continued collapse between 2013 and 2016 as they try to keep both personal and corporate parasites profiting from government largesse.

The debt ceiling will be hit again in 2013. If it is increased yet again, the wheels will start coming off at some point, as U.S. dollar creation by the Treasury/Fed combo starts to spiral.

You can’t keep borrowing increasing amounts from future taxpayers forever.


32 posted on 11/23/2011 11:48:09 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

A centrist Republican will simply oversee continued collapse between 2013 and 2016 as they try to keep both personal and corporate parasites profiting from government largesse.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

agree with all of your comments.

how to convince others on this forum and the country?


33 posted on 11/23/2011 1:04:44 PM PST by ken21
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To: ken21

I. Spread small business acumen.

There are examples of small businesses all over. Small business is within reach of the poorest people. They simply need consulting. Everybody wants to succeed financially.

As people who are poor learn about how to run a small business, they need to get accounting 101 in their brain: a simple p & l and balance sheet.

1 or 2 courses at a community college, or a few nights after work with a consultant - or a mentor.

Let small business people tell tales of woe about getting into debt and bankruptcy: how did it happen.

Let small business people share tales of success: one step at a time, no flash in the pan, just hard work, some smarts, and sticking to principles. And the avoidance of using debt or equity in place of revenue.

The more solidly people understand p & l and balance sheet, the more horrifying the finances of the Federal government look.

II. Show how the Bible contains specific orders which have the effect of avoiding problems.

I won’t get “preachy”, just will assist the person who comes to me with analytically reviewing the text. let’s make a list of things I can do to mess up my life, and then find the corresponding directive from the Bible that if I had not been so boneheaded and just followed that directive I would have avoided the problem altogether. But someone has to ask me or they won’t listen to the analysis.

Not trying to convince the poor rube of anything, or force anything on them, just saying, hey, dude, if you read the manual you could have avoided that brick wall.

No other book or teaching is as helpful to the individual personally.

But they can take it or leave it.

In short, the solid foundation of Christ that America was built on is being removed and replaced with the sand of immorality. We the people - not the government - need to bring the foundation back, piece by piece, sweeping out the sand as we replace each stone. Politicians are like reeds in the wind: if their constituents consistently reject those who would destroy America and instead insist on a decent Judeo-Christian society with a government that governs least, they will grant it to them. We must speak louder - and more often - than lobbyists.

III. Study European history.

We’ve got the latest upgrades to government, with all the updates and fixes, applied to the American framework. Trouble is, we have bad data. (not enough moral people). And the framework doesn’t handle immorality in it’s people. It never has, and this latest version still does not.

It’s all been done before; clear specific examples help. I love the one about inflation wreaking havoc on the economy of the Spanish empire. And they had gold currency. Biff (the average rube) has not been told about these things in Propaganda school. European history there is limited to “white people=bad”. European history was originally a problem because there were so many Roman Catholic immigrants and Protestants going to public school, so the Reformation and early America must have been a touchy subject. Instead of refraining from pointing fingers and making a quality study of things, I guess it started to get glossed and skipped over. From the mid-1800’s on history started being slowly twisted. Now it’s avoided because the Propaganda schools are run by communists - who fear and loathe both Protestants and Roman Catholics equally (who says they aren’t fair ?). So the significance and relationship of such history as that of the Magna Carta, the Glorious Revolution, the Protectorate, etc., are boiled down into a comic-book understanding instead of a thoughtful, thorough and honest exploration of the struggles and politics that had such an obvious and large influence on the design of American government.

So the big secrets are kept secret. Why are the 1st Amendment freedom of religion clauses there ? Because of the experiences in European history - for no other reason. But if one does not know those historic experiences one can not understand anything about the 1st Amendment. It’s like we have a fence around our henhouse to keep the fox out, but we only see the fence, we’ve never seen a fox and don’t understand the fox at all. The fence is now a splitrail fence, it’s around our house instead of the henhouse, and the gate opens only from the outside.

IV. Be the media.

Break stories like...

* the actual text of laws and regulations
* government financial information
* the actions of members of Congress
* etc.......

Short and to the point so eyes don’t glaze over.

Things that cause rubes to wake up and know that they’re being had. One of my favorites is info on how morality laws were all sneakily repealed since the 1960’s. People born after that time never really saw morality laws have any effect since they were being “phased out”, and they don’t realize that up until then morality laws kept deviant people in public office from passing laws that promoted deviancy, since those laws would have contradicted existing laws. The “phase out” of morality laws paved the way for the government to promote immorality as a right, contradicting the laws of 2,000 years of Western civilization. While all individuals were not moral during that time by any means, the laws enacted by Christian governments were aimed at Biblical standards.

Many today think we have a “new way”, “new thinking”, a “modern world”. Arrogantly and ignorantly they think this, despite some in every generation before thinking the same thing and being just as wrong. There is no “new way” when it comes to truth. Truth has been there all along and will always be there, unchanging. Working for living and not getting into debt are as timeless as 2 + 2 = 4. Social conservatives need to go forth and evangelize the huddled masses so they can get in on this truth; only then will they escape the lie of collectivism and statism to finally be free.


34 posted on 11/23/2011 2:31:49 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Show how the Bible contains specific orders which have the effect of avoiding problems.

_________________________________________________________________

amen.

my wife and i read the Bible an hour per day, every day before we start our day.

thank you,
ken


35 posted on 11/23/2011 3:00:43 PM PST by ken21
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