Skip to comments.Plain Talk: Concealed carry tragedy ‘a matter of time' (barf alert)
Posted on 07/25/2011 5:25:58 AM PDT by rellimpank
Now that Wisconsin is joining 48 other states to allow its citizens to carry concealed weapons, the legislative director of the Washington-based Violence Policy Center predicts it will join those states in yet another way.
Less than a year after loosening its restrictions on the carrying of concealed firearms, Arizona has already experienced two major mass shootings, Kristen Rand says. States with permissive concealed carry laws continue to rack up tragedy after tragedy. It will only be a matter of time before Wisconsin experiences its first concealed carry tragedy.
But werent we told by the Republican majority in the Legislature and Gov. Scott Walker that concealed carry has been problem-free in all those states that have it?
Unless the Violence Policy Center is pulling figures out of a hat somewhere, weve just come through one more flimflam from the folks who would rather promote guns in taverns than allow the citizenry to join unions.
(Excerpt) Read more at host.madison.com ...
More Guns, Less Crime - by John Lott that says violent crime rates go down when states pass “shall issue” concealed carry laws; lots of data to substantiate his assertions.
Facebook/Twitter induced ‘flashmobs’ can carry tragedy in a matter of time’ in Chicago or DC but that’s OK as long it’s Holder’s people.
Well clearly the people of Wisconsin are just ignorant morons not up to handling the responsibility like the residents of 48 other states.... /sarc
The hysterics from the ObamaNation liberals and progressives over CCW is a direct consequence of their inability to be secure in their own minds owing to their victim mentality.
In their world, everything frightens them causing them to go into a paralyzing paranoia. (Think Obama when confronted with a hard question and he doesn’t have a teleprompter to help him). As a result of their insecurities, they blindly strike out at those who could help them.
And instead of giving a good Samaritan the ability to have a CCW to rescue them from the big bad world, they instead demand the big government make the good Samaritan a victim, too, by denying them a CCW.
The misery of a liberal sure does love company, huh?
Hattip to bolobaby
The hoplophobia stricken liberals (and some in LE) were sure that CCW would cause the wild west to erupt in Missouri when the CCW law was passed.
Didn’t happen. The violent crime rate did not drop off either. Only thing that went up were gun sales, gun thefts, and the number of those who were able to protect themselves better.
Gun tragedies are going to happen. American citizens still need to be able to protect themselves.
More people will get killed in Wisconsin due hunting accidents during deer season than will ever get killed by those with CCW’s in the course of a year.
I am not a sheep . . . I am neither weak nor afraid. If you try to harm me the consequences of those actions rest solely on your shoulders
One caution only: carry a semi-automatic with at least a 4 in the caliber and which uses magazines holding at least twelve rounds and of such quality as to be reliable in tense moments ... Glock makes excellent, reliable, accurate companions, and extra magazines are readily available. BLOAT
Niether of which had anything to do with CCW.
I don't think that's where they're where they're pulling them out of.
And how about all of the “tragedies” concealed carry prevents.
If you’re callous enough, go the math. Subtract the (innocent) lives lost (if any) due to concealed carry from the lives saved and the balance will come out on Concaled Carry’s side EVERY TIME.
James Butler Hickok did not need a caliber at least .40, and neither do I.
A 9mm in the head beats a .45 in the kevlar every time.
And just how many of those TWO MAJOR MASS SHOOTINGS were committed by CCW permit holders, Dave? If the number was zero, then maybe those two mass killings were actually caused by the possibility that the murders' mothers made them eat their peas, like Obama tells us we need to do? Because if they didn't have CCW permits, then the CCW laws have just as much to do with the mass killings as do the killers' ingestion of peas.
Dave also quotes VPC statistics that 319 people have been killed by CCW holders: I noticed that he and the VPC (now that's an unbiased source, huh?) just how many of those 319 killings were ruled homicides by the courts, versus the number of justifiable killings, in self defense?
We agree except about the Glock!!
FRiend, I used to carry a .22lr semi. I practiced at least once a wekk. I’m older now, my eyes are not as good as they were in my youth, and I’m too infirm to suffer a tussle, so I will just kill a perp. Sure 9mm will drop someone if a good headshot is successful. And whom do you imagine wears kevlar, eh? Do you have a hidden agenda, FRiend?
My personal carry is either a CZ82 or my Taurus OSS DS in 40S&W. I sometimes carry a 1911 full size, but it is heavier than I want on most days. The Glock is a very reliable weapon, but if I were carrying it I wouldn’t have one up the spout, just a mag full and one or two in reserve. I don’t like the Glock trigger pull ... my Taurtus is double/single, with a decocking system that allows one up the spout carry, safely.
Yeah, just like DC and Baltimore are two of the safest cities with restrictive gun laws ......... oh......... wait....never mind.
From the state that brought us Jeffrey Dahmer.
“States with permissive concealed carry laws continue to rack up tragedy after tragedy.”
Well, this is true. Some of these states will have destructive earthquakes and hurricanes. All of them will have terrible traffic accidents that leave women and children dead or maimed. I was recently driving I-80 and saw a sign that said there had already been eight deaths on I-80 this year. I bet some of them were in shall-issue states.
I wonder if states where people are allowed free access to carrots “continue to rack up tragedy after tragedy”....
The VPC, which bills itself as a national educational organization working for a safer America through research, investigation, analysis and advocacy,
is, in fact, an anti-civil rights group of extremists working to subvert the Bill of Rights.
There, fixed that sentence for the author.
“I wonder if states where people are allowed free access to carrots continue to rack up tragedy after tragedy....”
Yes. They do. And this has been proven by statistics over and over. It’s a horrible thing.
Twaddle and poppycock on the “safety” argument about Glock - if that were the case, police departments everywhere would be dropping Glocks as issue weapons. My informal survey (looking at cops’ guns in holsters) tells me that is not happening. If you “feel” unsafe, that is a personal training issue, not a firearm design or performance issue. Carry what you are comfortable and competent with but let’s don’t throw unsupported assertions around like they ought to be accepted wisdom.
Not pull trigger = not go bang.
Never mind the 137 people killed every day by cars.
And in almost every case it involved a government licensed driver.
In your second post: Go back and read what I wrote, and this time read for comprehension. I said not one thing about the safety of Glock triggers. I don't like the pull on them.
It seems to me you need to learn to write for comprehension when you combine, in the same sentence, not liking the Glock trigger pull with a comment about the relative safety of another firearm with one in the firing chamber. It does not require a Ph.D. to draw a conclusion that you were comparing systems and relative safety of a loaded chamber in the two systems.
BTW, I only rarely carry my Glock but it is fully loaded when I do and that is the way I train with it. My usual carry is a Taurus Titanium snub revolver. I make the choice for comfort/ease of carry while knowing I am compromising on caliber and number of rounds.
Not an expert in any way, shape, or form -- just another FR poster with a point of view, just like you (except for the nausea). YMMV, prices may be higher west of the Rockies, check with your doctor, IANAL, etc....
I carry a S&W 642 in the summer or a Keltec P32. In winter with my jacket a Keltec PF9. I don’t feel under armed with any of them. Shot placement and speed is the key to winning a gunfight.
And a P32 in hand when needed is better than a .44 magnum in the safe at home.
You read into what I posted, what isn’t there. Then you presume to tell me how to write so you won’t read into my posts what isn’t there. Did you happen to read #10 above, or were you just looking for a spot to pretend to be an expert. And no, I’m no expert. But I have an opinion based upon forty+ years of familiarity, and I’m sixty-five, if you’re wondering.
Those “perps” you aim to kill wear kevlar, too.
I have no wish to shoot anyone, especially members of the US military or law enforcement.
However, I will protect my right to bear arms if necessary.
The pull of a Glock trigger feels like the rubber band breaking on a cheap toy gun, but I think they are excellent weapons.
I prefer traditional SA/DA triggers myself, especially the old Colt “positive lock” revolvers.
I too like the staging of a trigger in DA/SA weapons. But my absolute favorite pistol trigger action is the 1911, cocked and locked. I also find the 9mm class of the Brownings to my liking in cocked and locked. If it were not for the ammo limits in revolvers, I would carry one faithfully, because it is the most trouble-free pistol for defense. I always wanted a .45 ACP revolver ... Taurus used to make one that was as nice as the Smith but much less expensive.
I just recently replaced a barrel on an old RG40/.38 Special. The owner wanted a three inch barrel replacement for the snubby. Apparently it is still quite accurate, though a heavy revolver. The owner will be depending on that pistol for immediate action home defense, to fight their way to a real weapon. When I shoot revolvers, I tend to cock the hammer with my left thumb and stage the trigger with my right hand, while gripping with both hands.
Just to let you know that you and I do have some level of common thinking, I fully endorse your comment on the 1911: But my absolute favorite pistol trigger action is the 1911, cocked and locked.
Full age disclosure: I'm 56.
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