Posted on 01/31/2011 7:02:15 PM PST by fightinJAG
“We should not be involved in the decisions of people in other countries.”
Isn’t that what the Ovomit administration said about the Iranian revolt?
No, no, no!
They hate us for our freedoms, and our culture, and . . and . . and . . (I'm guessing) our fondness for BBQ pork ribs.
Everyone knows that. <sarc>
Neither Israel nor the USA will be doing Mubarak any favors right now by any public displays of deep affection for him.
What the hell is your malfunction, newbie? That was completely uncalled for.
You owe FJ an apology.
That was not my statement.
The same arguments were used in the late 1970s TrumanDogz. How did freedom work out for the Iranians? I mean they get to vote. How’s that working out for them.
You’re really blind to what is going on right now aren’t you.
This whole uprising is Obama’s work.
BackBullets is what Uncle Sam is producing these days. Really, folks *still* don’t seem to get the reality of what Obama is. This is what he was brought in for: the man was trained as an Imam. Hello?
No wonder we are hated. We should get the hell out of those countries.
I don't think it will help Mubarak if we or the Israelis publicly brag about how helpful he is to us because the Egyptians want their own leader.
What do you think we should do if we want to help Mubarak?
Tea Party Reveler:
I agree that not only was your remark uncalled for, it was really wierd and, indeed, IMO, evidence of some kind of personal malfunction.
Here’s a little advice about FR: stick to substantive comments that add to the political discussion and you’ll enjoy and benefit from your experience here.
I know it wasn’t, it was a previous one by another freeper that related to yours. Chill.
You’re not wrong, but, that said, I agree with the theme of the article that the abandonment of Mubarak will have deep ramifications for many world leaders who “work with” the U.S. when that’s not always so popular.
I agree with you, but what do you think Israel should do in order to avoid the charge that Israel is abandoning Egypt?
That question focuses things for me.
However, there is a very large uneducated underclass that may opt for theocracy.
Once Mubarak is gone, the military needs to run the place and quickly institute social and economic reforms.
Establish a schedule for elections and design an electoral system that will heighten the power of the middle, upper and professional classes in Cairo and Alex while diminishing the electoral power of the people in the Cairo slums and rural areas.
It seems to me that Israel has to remain (for lack of a better word) aloof from all this, since how Israel is perceived on the Arab street is much different from the pragmatism shown by Mubarak and the King of Jordan over the years.
That said, the fact that Israeli pundits are voicing their dissatisfaction with how easily Obama & Gang threw Mubarak under the bus demonstrates that the zeitgeist in Israel is one that wants to work with "moderate" Arabs to have peaceful relationships.
These riots seem to have been triggered primarily by food inflation. Then all the other grievances, and the usual scapegoats (the U.S. and Israel) get added on. It seems incredible that this could have surprised either the Obama administration or Mubarak, but apparently it did (more so the Obama administration, as Mubarak seems to have come out swinging with a fairly immediate attempt to survive through a first-time appointment of a Vice President, etc.).
There are several leaders in the Middle East who "work with" the U.S. and Israel even though this would not be particularly popular on their streets. These are the leaders who no doubt presently are reevaluating whether the risk of "siding with" the U.S. is worth it if the U.S. heaves you under the bus at the first sign of trouble.
This is not to suggest that Obama could have done anything about saving Mubarak in power once these events got underway. But it is also not to suggest that the right messages were sent as the inevitable unfolded.
Heh, yes, my point exactly...
Key US military, intelligence assets imperiled in Egypt.
Admin Official: Obama "not ruling out legitimacy" of Muslim Brotherhood for New Egypt Gov't
There is no democracy in palestine... or iraq... or afghanistan... there were elections... but let's see... our own government says that afghanistan is totally corrupt and the elections are a farce... lebanon and palestine are run by islamic jihadists... palestine is a terrorist state... and Christians are being blown up, beheaded and jailed in every one of those places. Hell... throw in pakistan for that matter... and iran... they both hold elections too!
Bush was wrong... not about invading but about nation building. How many more people will die in Iraq from car bombs and Church bombings and iranian intel operations? Go to this link and listen to Colonel Allen West on why democracy and islam can never coexist. It also explains why nation building, based on democracy in the islamic world... can never work. Eventually they will all vote for their dream... the worldwide caliphate... it is who and what they are... and there is only one islam and one koran.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGQmCZjJ0k He is right you know.
LLS
As you state, we are limited in what we can do. However, one thing Obama could do is to tell his staff to quit referencing transition every third word.
I also think Presidents can talk about these matters in general terms that help to remind foreign nationals that things don’t always turn out rosey when governments are toppled. He can also state that we ultimately wish the best for the Egyptian people, but that he doesn’t think what is taking place right now is the best way to achieve that. He could also point out other nations where regime change took place that turned put badly.
Other than that you stay in close contact with Mubarak expressing concern. You do not simply jettison an old friend to the U.S.
Then you contact others leaders in the region and keep abreast of what is going on there.
I would also try to develop some back channel contacts that might be able to help defuse this situation if at all possible.
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