Posted on 01/23/2011 11:13:48 AM PST by pissant
The new Republican House majority leader says he doesn't think questions about President Barack Obama's citizenship should play a role in the discussion of policy matters.
Two years into the Obama administration, so-called birthers continue to argue that Obama isn't a natural-born citizen and that he hasn't proved he's constitutionally qualified to be president. Birth records in Hawaii haven't dissuaded them.
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor says he believes Obama is a citizen and that most Americans are beyond that question.
(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...
There isn’t affirmative evidence that he was born in Hawaii. The HDOH has indirectly confirmed that Obama’s BC was amended in 2006, meaning that it is not legally valid. It has no probative value. If the HDOH has been accurate in their responses to me, that amendment was almost certainly to add a birth weight so the BC would be complete, which would also mean that his BC is about 45 years late - another reason for it to be legally invalid.
Neither Fukino, Okubo, nor ANYBODY has ever claimed that there even IS a legally-valid BC for Obama, much less that a legally-valid BC says he was born in Hawaii.
The HDOH’s official written responses to UIPA requests have revealed in at least 2 different ways that they knew the Factcheck COLB is a forgery. When asked if they would have a duty to report a known forgery to law enforcement, Okubo responded that she can’t disclose anything about a BC and OIP said (basically) maybe and maybe not.
So who knows what is the truth. Their statements don’t match the laws or each other. Discrepancies all over the place. Laws broken all over the place.
But if what the HDOH has said is true, they don’t have a legally-valid BC for Obama. And that should have resulted in a legal investigatio a long, long time ago.
This is really the only logical reason for republican leadership to weigh in on the subject, much less weigh in in an attempt to squash to growing sentiment. In other words, it’s not time yet to throw Obama overboard. He has some very important work to do before his troubles can be brought to light. Obama Hussein is the cover America needs during any action against Iran. He’s going straight to the friendly nations of the middle east, Egypt for starters and will be there for one reason and one reason only, to keep the Arab street from going radically against the US over Israel’s actions.
He’s the President now for a reason. Too many republicans are comfortable with him there, most notably War Hawk George Bush, for it to be any other way. Hell Cheney just disagrees with Obama on the edges when it comes to America’s favorite pet project, keeping the Islamic militancy movement from getting any bigger.
If Obama wanted to bring the people from Guantanamo to the states, it was just to mollify ME feelings, not out of some sense of justice. He was trying kiss ME ass. But even he found out you can’t try foreign terrorists with US jurors. It violates one of the most basic tenets of the Magna Carta. You can only sit in judgement of your peers and likewise deserve to only be judged by your peers should you be charged with a crime.
Why can't it be resolved now by a House subpoena for these documents?
I am fairly certain that no other state can resolve this issue. Why do you think that federal courts will not compel every state to recognize (full faith and credit) as legitimate whatever public documents the State of Hawaii claims are determinative?
So, focus on this: Why can't Speaker Boehner or Congressman Issa just subpoena these materials?
“Below are responses to frequently asked questions related to all records and documents maintained by the Hawaii State Department of Health (DOH) related to the vital records of President Barack Hussein Obama II. Frequently requested records and documents which can be released to the public are attached by electronic link below or, for those records and documents that are not available electronically, directions are provided for requesting copies.”
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
But to do that would require breaking a fundamental fact. The politicians in DC are all more or less on the same team when it comes to security issues. They think they know better because they know the secrets. This is why they hold the teaparty in such low regard. They see the Tea Party as a threat to national security because they think that would mean buffoons were in charge instead of their highly pedigreed and in the know selves.
It is my take on things, that people in the U. S. have been led to believe that we are far advanced over other nations. And in obvious ways, that’s a fact. In not so obvious ways, I think folks buy off on it across the board.
Did Kenya keep any records of births in the early 70s? That’s a very real possibility. Is there, or perhaps even was there a paper trail in Kenya? Has anyone actually looked? Could that paperwork have been destroyed, for a fee?
I’m by no means convinced that a paper trail didn’t exist at one point.
Obama’s grandma said she was present when he was born in Kenya. Some Kenyan authorities made statements that Obama was born in Kenya. There must have been ‘some basis’ for those comments. What did grandma have to gain? What did those authorities have to gain?
I find the whole issue to be rife with little gems that would shake my confidence greatly, if I truly believed he was born in the U. S.
Thank you so much. I can’t see video on my computer so I always depend on what others transcribe or comment about the videos.
The thing that stands out to me in that conversation is HOW DESPERATELY Gregory wanted Cantor to call us crazy.
They said that would be the game plan going into the 2010 election. How’d that work out for them?
Now they’re trying again. But did you notice how HARD Gregory had to work to get anything that could even pass for a decent sound-bite against us? I wish Cantor would have laid the issue out flat and totally flattened Gregory like a steamroller. I wish he would have turned it on him and said that people like Gregory are the crazy ones. Cantor wanted to focus on issues I think.
But the whole thing revealed that the media is DESPERATELY trying to find people to say we’re crazy, and they didn’t get Cantor to do that.
Born here or not, no one can deny he hates this country. here endith this whole birther thing.
Born here or not, no one can deny he hates this country. here endith this whole birther thing.
Can you back up that bizarre statement with fact?
The thing that stands out to me in that conversation is HOW DESPERATELY Gregory wanted Cantor to call us crazy.
Soma for all right wingers! They're just crazy!
How’d that work out for them?
They're still counting hanging chads so we may never know.
But did you notice how HARD Gregory had to work to get anything that could even pass for a decent sound-bite against us?
Fail!
Cantor wanted to focus on issues I think.
I think he wanted to avoid addressing the issue whatsoever...and he did.
Are they scared?
Absolutely no doubt about it! RINOs, “conservative” talking heads, and their bosses on TV and radio are wetting their pants in front of the communist regime. They may face closure and 0h0m0cide possibilities.
WHAT "birth records"? All we have seen is a doctored copy of a document that has been proven to NOT be proof of birth in the US because ANYONE can register a birth certificate with the state of Hawaii (citizen or not) and receive a similar copy.
If this is the best we have, this country is toast.
The Demoncrat congressman, senators and media went after GW Bush’s National Guard records for months on end. They got so desperate that they had to fabricate something to try and smear Bush. It was all a lie.
With a COMMUNIST USURPER as POTUS, we have a clear and present threat to our national security and future survival as a nation.
Carry on you pu$$y Repubikans like everything will be just fine. /puke
Cantor’s opinion is irrelevant. Congress has already failed to do due diligence in the matter. Now it is up to the states.
I don’t even think Hawaii can actually prove that he was born there which, makes Obama’s US citizenship dubious at best.
0h0m0 is anywhere between a citizen or the highest-ranking illegal alien.
I tend to believe he's the very ignorant, dumb type of the latter.
Butterd, you have done yeoman’s work on this... thank you!
I know you have been on the FR threads on the HillBuzz Ground Hawaiian Report. Tomorrow, if Rush does a mention (of the blog by the “HillBuzz Babes” or if Hannity discusses it further) we will know if we/they are on to “IT” as Cantor; Boehner; et all will have to trot to a microphone to talk it all back.
Anyone else wonder if a Facebook post, from up north, might be forthcoming? Fascinating to watch this all play out.
Obvious, but very relevant to the constitutional issue.
Also, spoken like a good mathematician or logician.
They may be scared but they’re also derelict. I hope every single one that has failed to act on this issue gets thrown out of office on his or her ear. Every. last. one.
“House Majority Leader Eric Cantor says he believes Obama is a citizen and that most Americans are beyond that question.”
Cantor is very very scared of something.
Or else he’s just corrupt.
Yes, it was clear that Cantor didn’t want to address this issue at all. By saying he thinks Obama is a citizen (which isn’t even the issue for eligibility) he avoided the real issue, which is what he wanted.
I think Cantor was also wanting to point out to Gregory that it was Gregory - not Cantor - who wanted to engage in “harsh vitriolic rhetoric”, and who wanted to force his guest to do the same. Sounds like that irony was lost on Gregory, as are (apparently) a lot of things that are obvious to everybody else.
Stuff like that is what makes these leftists so transparent to the thinking public. They’re not interested in respectful, factual political discourse. They are interested in using whatever ploy they can to divert attention from the facts - which is why they have to “Alinsky” Constitutionalists on this issue.
I’m not over it! Prove it, Obama!
What may happen, once he's out of office, someone could very well challenge some law he signed and not being valid due to illegal presidency. Then the dems will have to defend and ultimately prove nobama was eligible, this or just give in on the law being challenged AND any other law he signed.
Its likely that several states will pass a law requiring a candidate for US President to show eligibility proof to get on that state's ballot. Even one state will wreck electrorial vote. Plus, once one state does this others will follow. I will be surprised if he even runs for reelection in 12, in hopes it will put the damper on further “birther” concerns and hopes of quieting down law challenges.
Banning the return of the "fairness doctrine" would ease the level of fear and intimidation re talking over the air about taboo subjects like Obama's likely lack of constitutional qualifications for POTUS.
Please see my post # 79.
Amen!
I haven’t been on Hillbuzz myself, but I think they’re pretty in tune with the research over there so they may have mentioned some of my work.
It will be interesting to see what Rush and Hannity do with it now that the Hawaii AG came in to rescue Abercrombie by claiming that “certified copies” of the records can’t be disclosed. That doesn’t explain Abercrombie’s statement that his investigation had found something written down in the archives, when asked about how the search for the birth certificate was going.
Rush suspected that it was more games on the part of Obama’s handlers but pointed out that something royally stinks when the governor’s comments contradict the former DOH director’s public statements, and when the governor claims the record of Obama’s birth is in some written document in the archives rather than in the microfilms at the HDOH.
The more that people are informed about the discrepancies, the more they will realize that we need a legal investigation.
We can get a legal investigation of Obama and his records if we can get one state to sign into law a bill like the one suggested at http://butterdezillion.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/final-short-form-eligibility-bill1.pdf . That would open the floodgates on the FACTS, which is what Obama is afraid of.
I’m sure the people over at Hillbuzz would be interested in supporting this kind of bill not only because the facts coming out would open things up for a Hillary candidacy (since Obama would probably not run in 2012 if such a bill was passed; it would expose too much criminal activity), but also because it would support the rule of law, which is something they (like a lot of us) know is critical, from first-hand experience.
If you post over at Hillbuzz maybe you could bring this suggested bill to their attention so they can pitch in on the effort to get a state to pass something like this, for the sake of the whole country. That would be fantastic! =)
I guess Eric Cantor is not an Obama Birther, but an Obama Supporter.....
Need to kick the Liberal RINOs out
I believe fervently that Obama is a citizen. I am a bit curious, though, as to which country he is a citizen of.
They are not really RINOs. Their views and contortions are, in fact, the Republican Party.
I don’t have much faith in Republicans anymore. If they aren’t conservative and have the balls, which they can borrow some from our female leaders, then all bets are off.
Many of them will have to be primaried and thrown out in ‘12. TPs leadership should replace the current cowardly leadershiT.
Pardon my French, I have no patience for dumb cowards who are extending 0h0m0’s power and invincibility.
I would be grateful for your reaction to this reply I posted yesterday:
The situation as I see it in a nutshell is that there is no affirmative proof of birth anywhere except Hawaii. That is, there is affirmative proof of birth in Hawaii. Please note, I did not say there is conclusive proof of birth in Hawaii merely that there is evidence thereof. So whoever gets to decide this issue would have to say that the mere anomalous nature of Obama’s refusal to authorize disclosure of the birth certificate is somehow evidence that he was born elsewhere than in Hawaii merely because his refusal to release his birth certificate is strange and runs counter to human experience and suggests that the man has something to hide. I know of no forum that admits to substituting motive for evidence. I know of no forum which says that in the absence of any evidence we will overrule contrary evidence because of motive, in this case the presumed motive to hide ineligibility if he is in fact ineligible.
I use the expression “forum” because it is not at all clear to me that it is the federal courts alone who have jurisdiction to decide this issue. It might be that the matter is conclusively decided by the secretaries of every state certifying elections, or by the legislatures, or by the House of Representatives, where the president of the Senate, all of whom play some role in the election of United States presidents. It is the House and the Senate which have jurisdiction over impeachments (although the Chief Justice presides) and not the Supreme Court. This is no doubt partly because it was contemplated by the founders that the removal of the president for high crimes and misdemeanors was partially a political proceeding and not a justiciable one.
So we see that the nature of impeachment is somehow different from a proceeding based on in eligibility of a sitting president-or maybe not.
The Constitution does not provide explicitly for a body to adjudicate eligibility after the president was sworn in. Please see the 20th amendment quoted in part:
3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.
Once the failure of the President-elect to qualify is determined, the Constitution creates a responsibility and power in the Congress to sort it out. One can draw intriguing inferences from this about the intent of the framers of this amendment in 1933, but nothing is clear or sure and it does not necessarily mean that one can extrapolate from this to an argument over eligibility after the president is sworn in and say that the Congress shall act as it sees fit. Furthermore, the amendment merely assumes the existence of a failure to qualify and not the test or the forum.
So when we ask the question, “what if,” about what we might find in the Hawaii vault and the implications of the existence or nonexistence of certain documents like a longform birth certificate, we have to think, are we asking a political question, a legal question, constitutional question? And if were asking any of these questions we must next ask, who is decide it, a judge, the electors, the House of Representatives, the Supreme Court, or the court of public opinion?
Once we determine all of these things, somebody can weigh the evidence or the absence of evidence and apply presumptions of law and decide whether motive should overcome proof.
it’s all about the correct questions being asked.
“Many of them will have to be primaried and thrown out in ‘12. TPs leadership should replace the current cowardly leadershi[p].”
Post of the day. I am so sick of Republicans who try to talk like TEA partiers—or at least pretend they ‘heard’ the TEA party message—and then act like DC Old Boys. Enough. Primary every last one of them, and put TEA party game-changers in their place. If congress doesn’t get shaken ***completely*** up soon, it will be too late.
Most Americans think that Social Security is a "trust fund", the "Federal Reserve" is a government entity, and incandescent light bulbs cause hurricanes.
None of these things are true, Eric the Tool.
I don’t think there’s anything that would prohibit the US House from investigating. It would be nice if they would. But Issa has already said he’s not going to, so we need another route. We have nothing to hold over Issa’s head; he’s got a full plate already; and the media-political cabal in DC makes it a bad place to try to get courageous, sensible action. Sort of like trying to get Chicago politicians to go hard on the mafia. Not gonna happen.
And the state route is the way to fix not just the Obama instance but the actual SYSTEM, which is a much-needed long-term solution. Congress can’t decide how the states can choose their electors, nor can it interpret the Constitution or force the courts take a particular case that requires a definition of “natural born citizen”. So the states are the ideal place for this to happen.
Politically speaking, the good guys in Congress need to focus on undoing the damage Obama has already wrought. That’s what we ALL elected them to do, and they are the ones who can do that. The reasons some people give for opposing the eligibility issue is that it is distracting Congress from “more important things”. If the battle over eligibility takes place in state legislatures it’s not threatening to those who sympathize with the issue but don’t think it should be a priority for Congress.
The bill I’ve suggested would require all the evidence, including any evidence of tampering or forgery, to be publicly disclosed and submitted to the courts who have to apply evidentiary standards, etc. There is legal accountability for judicial ethics breaches. That’s more accountability than we’ll ever get for Congress or its investigations.
About the other part: The State of Hawaii never says that forged or manipulated documents are determinative. It has its own laws and rules and only records which comply with those laws and rules are considered probative. And the HDOH has indirectly confirmed that Obama’s BC was amended in 2006 which makes it NOT legally probative/valid. So if only genuine, legally-valid BC’s have to be given full faith and credit by other states, a forgery or non-probative BC such as the HDOH says Obama has would not have to be probative in another state either.
There was a county in New Jersey (?) where the person in charge of the county’s vital records was paid money to create false birth certificates for illegals. The birth certificates had the seals they needed and everything would have looked legitimate even though the claims were totally false and the bureaucrat knew it all along. The federal government 5 years later was still not accepting ANY birth certificates from that county as determinative.
If another state got birth certificates from that county they would have to give full faith and credit to the birth certificate being officially from that office. But that doesn’t mean that another state could not require more proof of the facts claimed on the BC, or more proof that the official BC was not tampered with.
So nothing in the Constitution says that another state can’t ask for transaction logs which would let them know if a BC was in compliance with the originating state’s requirements for legally valid BC’s. If the transaction logs revealed that BC was only created when the person was 20 years old, for instance, then it would bring up the question of why it was not marked as “late”, if that was required by state law.
If the BC is in compliance with state laws it is supposed to be given full faith and credit by other states, but another state has the right to ask for documents which show whether the BC shows any signs of forgery or tampering.
I’ll respond more later since I’m headed out the door right now, but I would say that we have evidence that both the HDOH and Abercrombie are contradicting themselves, breaking laws, and deceiving the public. That is positive evidence that something is wrong.
And Hawaii has NEVER said they have LEGALLY VALID records for Obama. They HAVE said indirectly in official communications that they DON’T. So if we go just by what the HDOH has actually said, we would conclude that Obama has an amended BC that is not legally valid. Nothing Fukino has said contradicts that, although she IMPLIED that they have legally valid vital record for him, and everybody considered that conclusive because she never DIRECTLY said the records were non-valid. She did say it indirectly though.
At this point it is too late to get Obama out before 2012. The process of appeals would take too long. What we can do now is keep him from getting in again by states requiring disclosure of birth and citizenship documents and the transaction logs which would reveal any forgery or tampering. If Obama runs again and submits forged documents there would already be a built-in court case to discover and rule on that.
So passing these state eligibility bills is what we can do, giving the courts jurisdiction to decide what has to be decided judicially and creating a situation where Obama cannot get on a ballot unless he files suit in court and thus forces the courts to address the issue.
Oops. I typed too long. I’m off...
Show us the document and it will go away
Hawaii Act to Regulate Names 1860
But that doesn’t mean that another state could not require more proof of the facts claimed on the BC, or more proof that the official BC was not tampered with.
Actually, that's exactly what it does mean. It means that one state cannot subject to its own scrutiny the official acts of another state.
The courts have already indicated that they are not going to carry the ball on this issue. The federal legislative branch (House or Senate) has the power to subpoena the materials that will clarify things, but if they decline to use their power to do so, the rest of us are just sh*t out of luck. A final possibility would be action by the Hawaiian state leglislature, but that doesn't seem likely either.
It really is all up to Boehner and Issa. If they feel that Obama was born in Hawaii as the state of Hawaii claims, then that will be the end of the matter. At some point we have to assume that maybe they know what they're talking about and we're chasing an invisible rabbit.
If Boehner and Issa don't act, then this will be remembered like the second gunman on the grassy knoll.
Diagram for proof of natural Born
I agree! All the Rs (starting with Boehner) all falling into the same trap...someone in the MSM gets all chummy and says “Birthers are crazy, aren’t they? You believe the President was born in Hawaii, don’t you?”
And then the Republican gets all flustered cause they don’t want to look “crazy” in an interview...so they immediately agree! (Cause it’s soooo important that the MSM “like” them and they’re afraid they won’t get invited to the “right” parties if they upset the “wrong” people.)
Turn it around and ask the interviewer why they don’t address their questions to Barack Hussein Obama since he’s the one who won’t sign the release to allow his birth certificate and college records to been seen.
Eric Cantor is a member of CFR. He is an insider with the elites.
No one questions his citizenship - we're all certain he's a U.S. Citizen. George Soros and Arnold Schwartzenegger are U.S. citizens, but they're not eligible for the office of POTUS.
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