The Smart Grid Trojan Horse (Planted by the Green Movement)

American Thinker ^ | 06/23/2010 | By W. Grant Ellis

[Wonder Warthog]

"We purchase electricity through a co-op."

REA type??? As I recall, most REA co-ops don't generate their own power. What if their suppliers require "smart metering"?

[rightwingextremist1776]

Don't know what to tell you...I'm sure enough “noise” can be made to make sure the co-op doesn't “co-op” with the commie greens.....

[BenKenobi]

Ok, I have a question.

Shouldn’t I be able to pull energy off the grid between 11 to 6 am for use through the remainder of the day?

If this were about ‘redistributing loads’ the utilities would show you how to do this.

This is about control, pure and simple. They want to decide when you can or can’t use your heat or your electricity.

I froze this winter as we had our heat turned off. -40 winter as I live in an apartment where I don’t have control over these things.

They want to extend the ‘joy’ of apartment living to detached houses.

[jimt]

This is about control, pure and simple. They want to decide when you can or can’t use your heat or your electricity.

Bingo ! We have a winner !

[TopQuark]

"Shouldn’t I be able to pull energy off the grid between 11 to 6 am for use through the remainder of the day?"

Yes, you should, but it is not a responsibility of the company: you can charge batteries at night and use electricity during the day. "I froze this winter as we had our heat turned off. -40 winter as I live in an apartment where I don’t have control over these things."

I am sorry for your predicament (it must have been really terrible), but it is probably the faulty of your landlord.

[Solson]

Right now, the US grid is a situation where the supply follows demand - Always. And, there are not good ways to store energy. There are some ways, like thermal ice storage or combined heat and power systems with chillers to "store energy" and use it in other ways.

But it's not simple and it's not cheap.

It IS about distribution of power, not load. Load happens where it happens. But how power gets to that load is an extremely complicated, and inefficient system. It's complicated and inefficient because of the lack of data around the loads - what the loads are, the type, quantity and quality of power needed, etc. - doesn't exist without bi-directional communication from a meter to distribution point to substation to generation and all around.

It's interesting to see the reaction to what are, for all intensive purposes, common needs to improve the power systems. There isn't a bogey man around every corner and believing there is reduces the ability to stop those efforts which truly can be detrimental to freedom.

[BenKenobi]

It’s complicated and inefficient because of politics. It’s really not that hard to generate cheap power. We could all be using nuclear for a fraction of the coast that we currently pay.

I would agree with you if two way information worked the way you said, but that’s not how it works. Instead of shaping supply, they shape demand by cutting off power. I’m not very happy that I can’t set my own thermostat, and I really doubt Americans would be happy having their thermostat set for them.

[BenKenobi]

‘I am sorry for your predicament (it must have been really terrible), but it is probably the faulty of your landlord.’

It was bad. It meant bringing in lots of blankets, and trying your best to sleep. The whole building was out and there wasn’t much my landlord could do.

[Smokin' Joe]

Not at all. Solar thermal with heat storage can be "stand-alone".

Not here, not in the winter.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Not here, not in the winter."

Lots of cloud cover in ND during winter?? (Serious question...I've never been to ND, summer OR winter). Here by Puget Sound, there is LOTS of cloud cover, but we're in easy transmission distance of a desert, which has very few clouds at any time.

[Solson]

Nuke power absolutely provides the lowest TCO cost and cleanest form of energy generation. But's it complicated and inefficient because of design. The miles and miles of wires, the distribution and transmission systems is NOT an easy feat.

We have, by far, the most complex, robust, and reliable grid than in any country. But it's being band-aided because the REAL cost of energy is FAR greater than what consumers pay. That's NOT supply and demand...that's price caps...and they simply don't work.

You can't argue against price caps on salaries, wages, medical prices, etc. and support it on energy prices just because it's convenient and easy.

If utilities were able to charge the real cost of energy, no subsidies would be needed to move to "clean" energy. Many many consumers and businesses would respond with further technology, innovation and strategy. In a truly transparent and free market, problems take care of themselves.

To that end, the POWER GRID isn't complicated and inefficient because of politics....but the redistribution of $$ through "programs" "subsidies" "stimulus" etc. is ALL politics....

[Smokin' Joe]

Think latitude (48 degrees N), incident angle, and duration. Not to mention common subzero temperatures, high winds (so you had better mount whatever for hurricane force winds), snow, and yes, cloud cover.

In winter our days are short, but we get plenty of sunlight in the summer (05:30-23:30) when it is hot.

We have plenty of coal to generate electricity, oil, and natural gas (and export all three).

[Fellow Traveler]

The other problem with our electric system in this country is that we are really paying for two things when we pay our electric bill. We pay by the kilowatt-hour. We are also paying for the maintenance necessary to keep the system running. Before deregulation utilities had a mandate that power would always be available. Except for saftey considerations an uniterrupted supply of power was a utilities highest priority. Now they are focusing on cost to produce.

What is getting lost is the maintenance required to keep it running. Much of the equipment used is designed around a 20 to 30 year life span. With regular maintenance it will easily surpass those numbers. I have worked on units that had been in operation sionce the 1920's.

Without maintenance the units will run for many years but, when they do come down they will be in bad shape and require a great deal of work to put back on line. I worry that they are depreciating thier assets today and will not be able to produce power tomorrow.

[BenKenobi]

“If utilities were able to charge the real cost of energy, no subsidies would be needed to move to “clean” energy.’

Clean energy is subsidised because it’s inherently inefficient, except for nuclear which is inhibited by regulatory issues.

In order for wind power and solar power to be added to the grid, they have to be subsidised because they are less efficient than other forms of poweer.

Power generation isn’t subsidised. The reason for the failing infrastructure is because of the hurdles erected by politicians preventing them from upgrading, improving and expanding the grid.

just try to put on another power generator in california for example. Absolutely impossible. Remove these barriers and the artificial restriction on supply will disappear.