Posted on 10/11/2009 3:28:57 PM PDT by combat_boots
I'm going to go back to this quote by Barney Frank of the US House, because it says everything those in state and local governments need to know:
Barney Frank, the Massachusetts Democrat who is chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said in an interview that the defaults were, in essence, worth it.
“I don’t think it’s a bad thing that the bad loans occurred,” he said. “It was an effort to keep prices from falling too fast. That’s a policy.”
Got it? It's a policy to screw the state and local governments.
Huh, you say? It's simple, really: State and local governments rely on property tax revenues. Yet defaulted mortgages don't pay property taxes. Yes, there's a lien on the property but this doesn't help the municipal budget now.
And suffer they are:
Tax revenues used to pay teachers and fuel police cars continue to trail even the most pessimistic expectations, despite the cash from the economic stimulus plan pouring into state coffers.
"It's crazy. It's really just unbelievable," said Scott Pattison, executive
(Excerpt) Read more at market-ticker.denninger.net ...
YES!
I’m in MA, and if the rest of you guys were smart, you’d push my state out of the union. We are up to no good. Sigh.
NO we should talk about getting rid of this loser who won the Presidency.
YES!
Where in the constitution does it give the federal government the authority to take my money simply to give it to someone else for no services rendered? Robbery is not constitutional.
Ticker guy talking about this does get my attention. I’ll say that much.
In a word...YES!
We should be talking about semi autonomous states with a greatly reduced role of federal government.
It might take a serious threat of secession, or even an actual secession or several, to get rid of him. Everyone’s so high on hopium right now no one will think straight until something sobers them up.
The states should already be sovereign. The U.S. Constitution lays out what the federal government is charged with. Everything else should fall under the purview of the states.
The states have allowed the federal government to get out of control. The states should file suit and put the federal government back within it’s limits.
Several months ago I read something that really hit me hard. I’m not sure why I had never seen something worded like that before, but it never hit home like this.
The premise was this.
Before Abraham Lincoln, we were called These United States.
After Abraham Lincoln, we are called The United States.
That may not be true. It may sound silly. I believe there is a very important distinction here, and in the future I will always refer to our nation as ‘These United States’.
That is after all what we really are, citizens of a collection of states who have banded together to be one nation, These United States. Power should be more local. States should be more autonomous. The federal government should be far less powerful than it is.
How soon can we get boots on the ground, and what will it take, for various parts of the collective states to declare their independence from the monstrosity that has grown up in Washington and metastasized to the so-called “blue states”? The division would not necessarily be on state lines, as there are wide portions of many of the “blue states” that are actually “red country”, just as there are “blue islands” among “red states”.
What we have is two countries already, one just sort of overlaying the other. The trick is to do the surgery necessary to separate these two countries. I am not the least concerned about the “equitable” division, more like the line between North and South Korea.
And equally well defended.
On our side, at least.
I’ve thought the same thing, but all we would end up with are states run by Dems doing the same cr-p! ie, CA, IL, NY.
If you have large cities with Dems running the show how would breaking away solve anything??
Micheal Medved had the final word on this (a month ago). He told a caller that succession would be permitted by the US Supreme Court, and therefore don’t discuss it.
Kind of like threatening to quit work, but then checking with the boss, just to find out you’re not allowed to quit...therefore it’s not an option, so sit there and take it.
The moral...people (including some of our leading conservative commentators) cannot even comprehend the subject.
So dad, isn’t it? The birthplace of the American Revolution!
I agree fully
IMHO:
The government that existed prior to 1860...
and the government that exists now...
are two completely different things.
“These United States” ceased to exist
after Dec. 20, 1860 when South Carolina succeeded.
At that point in time “The Union” was effectively dissolved.
What we have now is a different animal altogether.
uhhhhh make that So Sad! sorry bout that.
The question is, is there a point where we give up on the federal government or do we move on indefinately in the current mode. If the answer is neither of the above, how do we change things? Clearly we cant continue like this. Morality and Christianity continue to be trampled upon, fiscal matters are far, far out of control, the states are mere money trees for the federal government, social labratories and those running the Congress and Executive Branch are intent on socialism and marxism, concepts completely alien to this country. Something has to change and it has to change soon. Or America is gone as we know it and the next country/countries to occupy North America may not be so desirable.
Can anyone name a Governor in this country who has the guts to start it? I don’t.
Maybe he should think about the idea a bit before he spouts off about the USSC saying a “State can't secede”. Whether it would win or not is another discussion, but of course a State, which is SOVERIGN can secede. After all, didn't we secede from Britain?
No, we rebelled against Britain.
What do the people think who were traumatized by this...do they still love their blarney?
Absolutely not. That type of thinking plays right into the hands of those who know that the strength of the US is in ALL the states being together.
Breaking up the country into states and regions is EXACTLY what those who want this country devolved into a non-entity, powerless and small, want for the future.
Our strength is in our system. And so far, the system works. Zero hasn’t been able to put his bad policy ideas into effect because of dissent.
Our job now is to make sure that no one party ever has the upper hand again. If we can keep making BOTH parties accountable to the people, who once again have awakened, we can keep what has happened to this country from occurring.
2010. Restore the balance to government.
Well, we did try this once — and never did surrender.
Any state that wants to survive is going to have to do it.
I move to the first state that does!
And it was both parties who did it, not just the dems. It's time we take the party blinders off that Michael Steele and his cohorts want us to keep on.
Like that’s not going to happen anyway?
Both parties did it?
No, WE did it.
Everyone was living fat and happy and dropped the ball. We forgot that we have to watch these politicians every moment. That’s what the Tea Partiers are saying.
Unless Americans sit on these people and make them do the bidding of the people, this will happen again and again and again.
The notice pols have taken since the phones are ringing off the hook, the emails are crashing systems, and letters are on their desks has make the difference.
Nope, the states are beholden to the stimulus cow. They will ultimately buckle to federal demands.
It will have to be a two step process, state citizenry overthrows state government, then installs a government that is willing to do what it takes to be self-sufficient.
That said, the civil war did set an awfully big precedent - that the 10th amendment was not to be taken seriously. Until this is remedied at some future time by states willing to TAKE the 10th Amendment back from the federal government.
This may be the time, or maybe not.
For the Republic to survive, there must be some threshold of behavior that the Federal government can step over that will force a state or state(s) to legitimately repudiate their affiliation. It is positively un-American to assume that the federal beast can abuse the Constitution to any extent without risk of refreshing the tree of Liberty with the blood of tyrants.
>>NO we should talk about getting rid of this loser who won the Presidency.<<
.
In order to do that, we need the Legislative and Judicial branches of Government to stand up and get involved with the process of constitutionally identifying who Obama really is.
Their silence so far is an indication that neither branch is interested in discovering the truth of Obama’s eligibility for his position. Or could it be that they know the whole truth but are too afraid for the consequences if divulging it to the American people?
If either case is true, we have a dysfunctional government.
Check the map to see where your state is. If not yet passed, but in the works, dig in and push it through.
If your state is still ‘white’ - GET BUSY.
We stand together or we fall apart.
Our states rights are our best shot at end running the total take over of our lives...but WE gotta so the work...This is our home-front battle line.
http://www.infowars.com/images/states-map.png................and go to........... http://www.prisonplanet.com/alex-jones-on-coast-to-coast-the-exploding-states-rights-movement-martial-law.html ........live link next post
That being said I, for one, would be willing to see my state (Texas) form an alliance with Oklahoma and Louisiana to start the process of divorcing ourselves from the Union!
http://www.infowars.com/images/states-map.png
we need to get Glenn B on this,
He can get the word out and we'd have MOVEMENT in every state.
We want to keep our freedoms? It ain't free. We gotta get OUR boots on the ground.
Let's not loose our freedoms here and let our troops that have been fighting, sacrificing and dying to give others freedom - come home to a Marxist country - for there will be NONE to free us.
Perhaps economics might be the seccession trigger.
Imagine seceding from the burden of Obama-debt, and the default and bankruptcy.
Reform a union of solvent states.
It would have to be done through the state legislatures. You know, that group of elected people who were charged with approving the senators before we allowed them to screw that up? Anyway, we would have to elect enough people with enough guts to stand up and vote to seceed. And if the governor doesn’t want to do it they need to overide him.
You will have to stand in line to get an entry visa to enter that state legally. I can bet that the state who decides to secede from the Union will not have an “open door” policy as the US currently has.
(Pssst, send money and I’ll get you a Texas Passport cheap)
“These United States” ceased to exist
after Dec. 20, 1860 when South Carolina succeeded.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Unfortunately South Carolina did not succeed. We tried to secede but our secession was ultimately unsuccessful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlDkgk3SMPg
Not secession, but constitutional convention. The State of Texas is ideal for this purpose, and should act as host to the convention, sending out invitations to all the State legislatures inviting them to attend. The convention will be seated on agreement of 2/3rds of the individual States, with or without the approval of the federal government of the United States.
The rules would have to be set ahead of time, the State land in Texas would have to be set aside for that purpose, and set up like a military base to insure that delegates were not interfered with, the process tampered with, and that domestic or foreign interests—especially the federal government of the United States, be excluded from the proceedings.
The Texas Department of Public Safety and the Texas Rangers would be in charge of security outside the perimeter of the convention, as well as the Texas National Guard, who would be relieved if the US president tried to assume control over their actions. All personnel will be sworn to protect and defend the constitutional convention in personal oath.
The ground rules would be established ahead of time, to include, but not be limited to the following.
1) By simple majority vote, any officer or employee of the United States, elected, appointed, enlisted, hired, or otherwise retained, who attempts to interfere with the process or delegates of the convention, may be relieved of duty or dismissed without appeal, and will be prohibited from future federal employment until the convention has concluded.
2) Each individual State shall send a delegation of 10 adult persons of good character, two of which shall be convention delegates and the remainder being alternates in case the delegates cannot perform their duties. These 10 adult persons shall be selected by each State’s legislature by majority vote.
3) The President of the United States, the congress of the United States, and the Judiciary of the United States, are enjoined from involvement in the convention, in both a professional and personal capacity. Nor can they use the resources of their office to afford involvement with the process. The regulatory, intelligence and investigative agencies and resources available to the federal government are also enjoined from any scrutiny or involvement in the convention.
4) Once seated with delegations from at least 2/3rds of the individual States, the convention will select a chairman, and set forth the rules of its proceedings, which may be approved by a simple majority vote of delegates in attendance. The rules will be augmented by a listing of additions, deletions and modifications to existing United States constitution as proposed by each delegation.
5) A video record of the proceedings will be made, and retained for release at the conclusion of the convention. Prior to the conclusion of the formative part of the convention, with the creation of the first draft of a new constitution, delegates will be provided a secure and encrypted means of communicating with a select committee of their respective State legislature and governor, to present to them a copy of the draft constitution, so that they may be instructed as to its acceptability by that State.
6) If 3/4ths of the individual State’s legislatures do not approve of the draft, then the convention will continue to debate its particulars. When there is agreement by 3/4ths of the States, the draft will again be returned to each individual State to be approved or rejected. Once 3/4ths of the individual States have authorized their delegates to vote in favor of the new constitution, a vote shall be taken by delegates, and if successful, that draft will become the new constitution of the United States.
7) From that point, in consultation with their individual States, the delegates will issue instructions in conformity with the new constitution, requesting and requiring whatever changes in the federal government of the United States as are deemed appropriate. These may conclude any and all treaties, debts, contracts and agreements made with the US government.
8) All officers or employees of the United States, elected, appointed, enlisted, hired, or otherwise retained, may be dismissed without appeal or provision, to include the president, congress, the judiciary, the bureaucracy, and the armed forces.
9) Any and all laws, statutes and precedents set forth by the federal government of the United States may be suspended and voided. Those incarcerated by the federal government may likewise have their sentences suspended in conformity with the new constitution.
10) Only once these changes have been accomplished will the constitutional convention be concluded. No act of retribution against convention delegates or alternates will be lawful.
I believe this too. I'm willing to pay off the U.S. government for their military bases, their air traffic control system, their border inspectors (ha!) and other investments they have made in my state. Slaves sometimes have to pay for their freedom.
But it will be all that future debt that we won't have to pay that will make it a good deal. Plus, as the U.S. becomes more socialist/Marxist/communist, the seceding state will have strong growth as a last bastion of capitalism, attracting the finest doctors, the best investors, etc.
We'll just make sure to ban the ACLU.
If things are rotten where you live, why not consider moving to a state that is more conservative?
I live in Japan now, but am seriously considering where I will move to when I return, and one thing is sure — it will not be to any so-called “blue” state.
I would rather flip burgers in Texas initially, confident that my intelligence and conservative work ethic would eventually raise my living condition, then take a high paying job in California or any other liberal bastion.
I really believe partition is coming. The hardcore conservative and whacko liberal sides of the population hate each other just as badly as the Hindu and Muslim extremists hated each other when India broke apart.
All conservatives, everywhere in the nation, need to start thinking about where they want to be when it happens.
I’ve long wondered if we could convince the Canadians to take MA, VT, and the entire west coast in exchange for Alberta.
Socialists would not stay in the free state. And free people would not stay in the socialist state. If socialists did stay in the free country, they would have to live with the structure of non-socialist National government.
I think we should explore this idea. We are so far apart and really, we don’t like living together and that has been the case, hot and heavy, since the 70’s. We are not able to have a free country and a socialist compromise as we have seen with the break down of our consitution and law, our society, economy and the corruption of our government.
We have too much population and socialists have the incentive to keep adding to it so they can get more votes and they are setting up the nation for total failure. It really is time to split up before the hatred destroys the territory for good.
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