Posted on 04/27/2009 1:38:06 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Have you heard any theories about HOW these strains (seeing as only two of the animal flu strains occur in the Americas naturally), combined with European/Asian Swine flu virus(es), and the Human Flu strain, though?
From what I know about “Old fashioned” swine flu is that you can get it from exposure to an infected animal. It is an upper respiratory infection. And, it is also only communicable from animal-to-human, and not human-to-human.
I can see how the RNA marker in the human flu virus could be the way this made the jump to human-to-human transmission capability, but are they suggesting that (kind of like the life by chance from a pool of goo theory) this just happened to “stew” in a pond of pig poop?
I’m no expert, but that sounds rather odd to me... And it seems that the combinations/mutations happened too quickly for it to have followed a natural “evolutionary/mutation” path that most viruses follow.
Again, I’m no expert, so I’d love more info. if you have it. Perhaps I’m just missing something here, or not understanding this well enough.
Ah, yes, that’s another definite possibility. Radical leftists groups who are convinced that we are way too overpopulated and are “over the edge” would fit the ‘profile’ of someone who may consider doing something like this on purpose and with malice...
One more scenario that fits with the “Radical Muslim Version” Terrorists as a somewhat related theory is that in the MUSLIMS’s version of ‘Revelation’ the coming of the 12th imam must be brought on by man creating chaos and destruction. Not in the way Christians view it — as something to pray NOT to pass — they view it in ‘opposite’ from what I understand. That through jihad it is their DUTY to create the cause and effect scenario through which their ‘savior’ will appear. This is definitely a possible motive type factor in the “engineered bio-weapon” terrorist event scenarios, IMHO. Also remember, something doesn’t need to be “overly” fatal in order to achieve the chaos and fear the terrorists always seek to create...
ALSO, with the ‘co-operation’ or ‘use’ of the radical muslim terrorist organizations, protests, propaganda by communist/leftist groups I hate to say it, but they could’ve even been working together!
[Again, just something to throw out there... Gosh I hope no-one runs across this and thinks we believe all these theories like some gospel, or panics because of our ‘brain-storming’ on this! LOL]
I’m not really trying to make the case for the pond/hog farm theory. I do want to make it clear, the public health agency didn’t tie it directly to the pond, put more a possibility of the farm playing in some way.
I would urge you to look around here. There are now articles out there claiming this is a real stew of an influenza virus, containing a mixture of several bad strains.
It doesn’t look good, and by it’s complexity does lend itself to the mad scientist scenario. I’m just not qualified to say yes or no. Mother nature tosses some pretty wild stuff our way sometimes, but scientists should be able to tell if this is a naturally occurring virus or not. At least I believe so in time.
I agree. It is interesting to talk about scenarios, even if they are somewhat wild. Some pretty wild things do take place from time to time.
Nobody should read these comments and think we’re saying this is true though. We’re just playing around with scenarios.
Your Imam comments are interesting. The Bible says that in the last days the false Christ will appear. And from what I can tell, Islam is the false religion. So through it, would be the expected route for that, at least to my way of thinking.
I totally agree.
Thanks LibertyRocks. Take care...
The initial dead were mostly in the 20 - 45 year range, healthy adults (perhaps mainly men too?). The types of flu deaths that you see with pandemics. As I recall, the “healthy” person’s immune system is strong enough to try to fight back against the virus. But - it is so strong that it is the immune system that goes bonkers and just keeps fighting and ends up killing the person.
Lets hope that this thing, for whatever reason, remains weak once it has gone through a few humans and spread to other countries. I hope it doesn’t fester during the summer and come back with a mutated vengence this fall. (Like what happened in 1918).
To be completely honest I believe so too. The other day in looking into the comparisons between Obama’s “5 Pillars of Education” and the Muslim’s “5 Pillars of Islam”, I ran across a list of the “99 names of God”, or what Muslims apparently consider more accurately to be ‘attributes’ of Allah (God).
I truly believe that 98 of the names would not necessarily be blasphemous (although I haven’t read them in context personally - I’ve just seen this list).
And, if one were to consider them facets of God’s “personality” as represented in what I, for example, know and remember about the Bible from my reading and religious education (as a Catholic, in parochial grade school, and (usually) more than weekly mass (due to feasts and holy days that were part of our religious education), and from my Mom who had converted from Lutheran to Catholic). Plus my ‘research’ as an adult into matters of my own faith.
However, there is one “name of God” according to Islam that is (in my understanding) totally twisted — like an antonym vs. a synonym. This was in the 6th Hadith, which is also, IIRC the part of the Hadiths that, according to Muslims, contain the passages that make killing of infidels, and such ‘blessed’.
Obviously, I would have to write out a pretty decent essay to espouse my entire theory on this.
One thing I want to make clear, that is also interesting. The members of specific ‘denominations’ of Islam hold Hadiths higher than the Koran (Islam’s bible, if you will), in terms of holiness, but the way Hadiths were passed orally honestly reminded me of playing a game of telephone over generations with no way to PROVE that the person they attribute the quote to is genuine. It would’ve been easy for someone to “slip” something in, IMHO.
That is why I don’t want to judge any of the peaceful muslims that may exist in our world — some who would view self-initiated “jihad” and especially “HIRABIST” (or “non-legal” war), as morally wrong.
If anyone is willing to truly live peacefully and isn’t an honest to God threat to me, I wish them no harm. I can’t know if in these people’s hearts just because they ARE Muslim that they may not be even trapped in that Religion but still ‘know God’ in their hearts. That’s why I’m glad I’m not God, that’s for sure...
I can’t help but get philosophical when I try to figure out why a group of people would have such a blood-lust and willingness to commit atrocities in the name of God. It seems so utterly foreign to me, and everything I believe...
OK, it’s getting quite late, and I’m getting tired. Plus, my doctors still have me on medications for some minor lingering irritation from my bronchitis. So if I sound a “little out there” it’s these darn drugs my doctors put me on! LOL
Oh, one more thing I wanted to share that’s along these lines somewhat... [Some I’ve pinged are already aware of some of these things, so forgive my repeating them if you are]
Coincidently, my whole family just got over a NASTY flu they came down with around April 2nd/3rd - I didn’t get the flu, but I got an Acute Bronchial Infection around the 7th, and went to the doctor on the 8th due to the pain I was experiencing.
We homeschool, and my husband has been laid off and not at work, so he didn’t come in contact with a flu virus there. He has gone to job interviews, and we have done regular errands and such. We also had friends visit us from the suburbs of Chicago about 2 days before, but that would be kind of too quick for them to have exposed us to anything and for it to ‘incubate’, and I don’t think they’ve been sick after being here either...
We haven’t been sick in YEARS, really, and every other member of my family came down with it seemingly at the same time. Another weird coincidence(???), we had to put our kitten who had feline leukemia to sleep due to his contracting an upper respiratory infection that put his disease and white blood cell production on ‘hyper-drive’. Our cat, Hobbes, got sick at the same time as all the other members of my family — we noticed he was having trouble breathing about 24 hours after my family got a 24-36 hour fever, and respiratory flu symptoms.
No reason to believe we had this new virus of course, it’s even more likely to just be a coincidence and somehow we got exposed to a “late season flu bug”, it just makes looking at all of this stuff “hit home” in a weird way since I nursed my kids and hubby and just ‘did combat’ against an illness of this sort! LOL :)
My girls have heard about this flu outbreak on the news, and I told them, well, look at it this way — if it is more widespread than we’ve thought till now, then there’s a very slim chance that maybe we’ve already “had it”! :) Worth being optimistic, I’d say! LOL
Hope everyone has a good night & take care!
Their was a link to some medical blog that tracks dieseases. It had first picked up some “chatter” in mid March I think it was on illness and deaths in Mexico. Then in early April (April 4?) things really started to ramp up, and they were pretty knowledgable about it. (And the general public gets the news by April 24th!!!).
One of their early outbreaks of a “mystery” illness (now confirmed as this flu) was near a town called La Gloria, Veracruz highlands, Mexico. A quick google search came back that La Gloria accounts for over 75% of ALL drug related murders in Mexico!!!
Drugs, money, labs, ..... terrorists?
That’s an interesting set of circumstances. Thanks.
Thanks for the information. I’ll try to find a link for that.
I thought a few others may be interested in what you’ve posted, too about the, IMHO, very plausible theories on this. [See 21Twelve’s post at #69]
There certainly are enough plausible scenarios to keep investigators busy for a while, not to mention the scientists researching the disease itself, and the doctors treating these patients, that’s for sure... Especially in Mexico where they just had an earthquake as well. Talk about stressful...
There's the rub. Based on actual, not reported, cases, the death rate would be much lower.
Oh boy, are the people going to crawl out from the grassy knoll on that one, guy. :)
I thought the same thing with a slightly different twist:
Why are so many people dying there and nowhere else?
There are many case now of travelers infected and bringing the virus back with them and none of them are dead.
Agreed, we do have better medical care - at least until the government gets a hold of it, but we are doing nothing different that I see.
I believe that is the key question.
WOW.
Thanks for your update.
Re: “New cases in California....the articles noted that these children had not been to Mexico...by why bother when Mexico comes to ya every day!..................”
***
Right — Mexico is here all the time because the Mexicans are here — legally or illegally. And here in Los Angeles where Mexican kids make up the majority of ‘students’(ha) in LA Unified Schools, the parents take them back to Mexico constantly, even during non-vacation times.
A friend of mine is a substitute teacher at many elementary schools in heart of L.A. and says kids disappear for a week or more at a time, then return after a family visit to Mexico to see the relatives. Education is not stressed in these families at all — they see the classroom as a babysitter and teachers all say the kids don’t pay attention and don’t learn anything. Many of the adults in the homes don’t speak English but most of the kids do as they are born here, the so-called “anchor babies” of illegals.
FWIW, this teacher friend of mine is ALWAYS sick with colds and flu from all those kids — the schools in L.A. where he teaches are 98% hispanic/Mexican. The only kids who are not hispanic or black in L.A. Unified are a few in some suburbs and that’s where the white and asian kids are found in small numbers.
So no, it does not matter whether or not the kids have been to Mexico, there are so many Mexicans here all the time that it makes no difference.
It looks a lot like Mexico where I live. (Northern California)
P.S. ....my 20yo son came down with a cold or flu last Saturday. (very scary getting flu symptoms right now)
I told him to go to the ER, but he wouldn’t. He is feeling much better today. Fever gone, no aches or pains.
Is anyone else sick with a cold or flu, but not feeling bad enough to go to the ER?
Adding to my post #76 above.
And no, my son has not traveled to Mexico. But of course with the way this virus is spreading, it might just come to you.
Every year this nation trades with Mexico, it is a net loss.
Exports from 1990 to 2000 to Mexico doubled monetarily, while imports tripled. I live in rural San Diego county, and Avocado, Citrus, and Flower farming are being destroyed systematically by cheap products from Mexico. Destroyed as in turning off the water and letting the groves die. We are losing the ability to feed ourselves.
Whatever it is, the Government wont tell us the whole story, until they are darned ready to do so, and that may be days or weeks after what they know to be true.
After our 1st glorious days of the annointed one, I have reached the point that I believe these people lie about everything even when they don’t have to. If there is ever a real calamity, most thinking people won’t believe it. Shame when we cannot trust our serial liar president.
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