Man Shoots Dog to Protect Daughter

wctv.tv ^ | 10 March, 2009 | NA

[marktwain]

Kenneth Hale Jr. says his neighbor's Bull Mastiff ventured into his yard several times.

Last week, Hale's three year old daughter was playing in the yard and the dog charged toward her, so he got his gun and shot the dog.

Kenneth Hale says "I feel bad about it I didn't want to shoot the dog, I really didn't and I was hoping he would keep him over there, it was a beautiful dog, it's a bull Mastiff and that dog stands every bit of four feet tall on his back".

Thomas County investigators say Hale contacted them on more than one occasion about the dog.

The owner of the dog could not be reached for comment and authorities would not release his name.

[DJ MacWoW]

And the world is FULL of stories of a child that age even playing with their own Pit Bull or Mastif, then pulling its ear wrong and getting killed or mutilated for life.

Funny. I Googled for info and that's not what comes up.

The breeds most likely to kill

"Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)

Other breeds were also responsible for homicides, but to a much lesser extent. A 1997 study of dog bite fatalities in the years 1979 through 1996 revealed that the following breeds had killed one or more persons: pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. (Dog Bite Related Fatalities," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, May 30, 1997, Vol. 46, No. 21, pp. 463 et. seq.) Since 1975, fatal attacks have been attributed to dogs from at least 30 breeds.

Wikipedia Dog Attacks

There are studies that claim certain breeds are more likely to attack than others. A study by Merritt Clifton, which analyzed serious attacks in the U.S. and Canada between 1982 and 2006, determined that Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios, and their mixes were responsible for 74% of attacks studied and 65% of fatalities. Another study indicates that pit bulls and their mixes were involved in approximately one third of the reported human dog bite-related fatalities between 1981 and 1992, while Rottweilers were responsible for about half of those fatalities reported between 1993 and 1996.

I don't see anything about Mastiffs.

[DesertRhino]

Ventured is all you need. Those things have a grand history of attacking the very children they live and play with.

[DJ MacWoW]

Where in the article does it say this dog has a history of aggression? Or do you believe that you can just shoot anything that comes into your yard?

YOU stated that Ohhh,,so if theres an aggressive mastif next door, I should just *introduce myself*? And maybe he doesnt make his kid a prisoner inside the house because the neighbor wont control the curr.

Nowhere does the story backup that hypothesis. It is a very poorly written story that is short on facts and info.

[DesertRhino]

And you wouldn’t need to worry if you kept that beast out of my yard. Good for Dad.

[DJ MacWoW]

Those things have a grand history of attacking the very children they live and play with.

No. They don't. As I proved in post 101.

[DesertRhino]

You need to get your google fixed. Google “MASTIFF ATTACKS” and look. Wasnt that mastiffs that also killed that woman in San Francisco cause her perfume smelled good?

[stuartcr]

Good for you.

[freekitty]

It’s you I am worried about.

[gieriscm]

coyote in W. Virginia?
Where about ya live?

Eastern panhandle, Berkeley County.

[DesertRhino]

Another poster said the dog should have just been introduced to the kid, i was responding to that. And yes, if a large dog comes in my yard, of course i can shoot it. Especially if its an ongoing problem. And of course, the polite thing normally is to go knock on the neighbors door and tell them what you did and why.

I guess things are different in the city.

[DesertRhino]

Worry if you want, but im a great neighbor. But that doesn’t include letting mastiffs wander through my backyard. How hard is it to control your dog? Excusing the wandering large dog is the same syndrome of “how cute my child is” as the throw food across the restaurant. That dog owner has the explaining to do, not the guy who blew out his lamp.

[DJ MacWoW]

Presa Canarios killed the woman in SF. They are on the list.

You said: And the world is FULL of stories of a child that age even playing with their own Pit Bull or Mastif

Mastiffs are not listed in statistics.

This story does not state that this dog was EVER aggressive. And statistics don't back it up either.

This story also has the father saying the dog was 48 inches at the shoulder. Um, really? 4 feet? That wouldn't be a mastiff. More like a pony.

This article is pure crap. It is very badly written.

Statistics of a Bullmastiff.

Bullmastiff American Kennel Club

Ranging in size from 24 to 27 inches tall at the shoulder and 100 to 130 pounds.

[Alouette]

My neighbors have a big pit bull and a little Maltese terrier. The pit bull they keep reasonably under control, it’s the yapping little Maltese that barks 24/7 and keeps coming into my yard to do its business.

[Hacklehead]

“Not really, a dog has the same civil rights as a bottle of coke or a TV set. It’s property. You shoot it if you think its a threat. If a judicial someone decides you were wrong, then you hafta write the guy a check for a few hundred bucks. Same as if he left a TV set on your lawn and you threw it away. This isn’t the same as shooting a person. And the world is FULL of stories of a child that age even playing with their own Pit Bull or Mastif, then pulling its ear wrong and getting killed or mutilated for life. Go dad!”

It’s attitudes like this which give gun owners a bad name. People that go around looking for any lame excuse to kill someones dog just for being on their property. If the dog was attacking his kid or acting in a threatening manner, fine, no argument. Furthermore, any normally adjusted person knows that in the US dogs are often considered to be part of a person’s family. Its not like a freaking TV set. Technically the may be property (like your gun) but anyone who thinks they can kill them for no reason may be in for some VERY unpleasant and violent blow back.

[freekitty]

Get off of it. Most of us are for good and responsible parenting and dog ownership.

It’s people like you who are trying to play Big Man in the Neighborhood just to get a rise out of people that are a problem.

[DesertRhino]

Presa Canarios? That Mastiff cross from Spain? Is that what you are referring to? And why dont you post a photo of a “Presa Canarios” and a PURE mastiff side by side. Thats slicin’ the pie *pretty thin* my friend.

Chesty Puller said the worst fight he ever had was when he insulted Doberman war dogs used by the Marine corps by sauying they were nervous under fire. The Doberman people got organized against him. So obviously im insuling mastiff people.

But for everyone else, the difference between a Presa Canarios and a mastiff, is at best, academic.

[DesertRhino]

And keep your chimpanzee at home, or ill shoot it too! Well FR mastiff society, gotta run for now, been fun, remember to laugh sometimes.

[DJ MacWoW]

Why don't you do some research about dogs. My "beef" with you is that you made wild statements based on an article that was erroneous and lacked pertinent info.

Btw, I have never owned any breed of mastiff nor do I own any dog. My problem is with trigger happy gun owners. They make it tough for the rest of us.

[wardaddy]

the San Franscisco killings were by Presa Canerio dogs

Canary Island fighting dogs...somewhat smaller than most Mastiffs though they do have some Mastiff blood...as do many many dogs with the Tibetan Mastiff considered a major progenitor breed along with the Pinscher and various original terrier and shepherd dogs too.

[freekitty]

Don’t come back.

[DJ MacWoW]

And keep your chimpanzee at home, or ill shoot it too!

You are a leftists dream for a gun control poster.

[DJ MacWoW]

Some noobs are just not good freeper material.

[DesertRhino]

Now THAT wasn’t very nice of you. Why so emotional? Well, bye for now!!

[DesertRhino]

hahahahaa bada-bing,, the magic word at last, proving you were bested.

[Judith Anne]

A Presa Canario is a very dangerous dog.

An Old English Mastiff is not, as they have been bred for over a hundred years to be much less territorial and aggressive than they used to be.

If you don’t know anything about dogs, feel free to admit it.

Dobermans’ prey drive, and aggression have been bred out quite a bit, but ignorant people still think they’re invariably aggressive.

I’m sure you learned something about dogs, or heard somebody talk about dogs, and gained a lot of misinformation thereby. Nothing wrong with that, until you start posting ignorant stuff, and expecting people to bow to your misinformation.

There are many breeds of mastiff. What the hell are you calling a PURE mastiff?

[DJ MacWoW]

Nope. People like you give gun owners a bad name.

[LongElegantLegs]

What are you, twelve?

[DJ MacWoW]

My guess would be he is too young to have learned caution.

[LongElegantLegs]

Or consistency...Look at his tagline.

[VoyagerXII]

I wasn’t there so all I could say is it seems to me that
if the dog wasn’t in another person’s yard it wouldn’t
have gotten shot.Animal control is already overburdened
in many areas. They may not have the resources to follow up.
I personally would not shoot a dog simply for being on my property.
I am totally opposed to breed specific legislationas well as gun control.
Many times people bring bad things upon themselves.
Be responsible with your___________. (fill in the blank.)

[DJ MacWoW]

Read the posting history too. Starts an argument and skates.

[EDINVA]

“I feel bad about it.........
“ I wouldn’t...................”

Same here.

[stuartcr]

Venturing into a yard, isn’t what most people would consider aggressive behavior.

[Joe Boucher]

Wow,
I’ve heard they are all over.
We have them here in s.E. Florida and two years ago a wolf got hit by a car in front of my neighborhood.
I’ve seen Florida panthers, bobcats, aligators, otters, deer,
and walking catfish here too.

[freekitty]

I agree. You can’t breed the good into a dog; but you can breed the bad out.

I have always protected my dogs from people which means I know where they are at all times and they are secured. They are never left along unless crated. I would never attach a dog to a lead outside. You have a problem there. It can hurt the dog, he can break it and it can possibly make a dog aggressive. People that do that should be horsewhipped. It’s just as bad as beating your dog or starving it.

[1COUNTER-MORTER-68]

BOOM!

[DesertRhino]

Hey, just refreshed the screen when i got home. Its interesting, i disagreed with you on whether the guy was justified or not. You start in with noob, personal insults, tagline, posting history and all kinda personal slander.

It’s you that is immature, because none of those things had anything to do with our dissagreement on the story. You accuse me of not having enough information from the story to form an intelligent opinion, yet, you seem very sure that the guy overreacted by doing what? Yes, by reading the same story!

But best of all, you said i start arguments, then run? Explain that, because i was **on this thread for a solid hour***. Exactly how long must i stay on it to please you, oh great old freeper? This is normal for me on other threads too, where i have sometimes changed minds, had my mind changed, learned stuff i didnt know, and just plain been entertained. But just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt mean you need to go personal. You were very rude.

[DJ MacWoW]

My first post to you: To:DesertRhino

The article doesn’t say the dog was aggressive. It only says that it “ventured” into the neighbors yard. Where are the details in the story? There are none. VERY badly written piece.

97 posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:55:26 PM by DJ MacWoW

You respond: To: DJ MacWoW

Ventured is all you need. Those things have a grand history of attacking the very children they live and play with.

102 posted on 03/17/2009 10:06:48 AM PDT by DesertRhino

I post facts in 101 and you couldn't accept them. You couldn't even acknowledge that the article lacked info and was badly written.

I'm immature? LOL

To: DJ MacWoW

hahahahaa bada-bing,, the magic word at last, proving you were bested.

124 posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:39:23 PM by DesertRhino

To: freekitty

And keep your chimpanzee at home, or ill shoot it too! Well FR mastiff society, gotta run for now, been fun, remember to laugh sometimes.

117 posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:32:46 PM by DesertRhino

[familyop]

What kind of people would sanguineously sacrifice a child for a dog—this day’s drunken revelers, perhaps?

[jws3sticks]

They are certainly big and very beautiful.

Personally, I am a retriever kind of guy having had Golden Retrievers and Black Labs.

[luckymom]

I don’t think that is a Bullmastiff. I think it’s an English Mastiff. Bulls have bulldog-like faces and are not as tall as English. They are known to be more aggressive than English Mastiffs. I had to put down my ENGLISH Mastiff 3 weeks ago. He was 4 and a half, and had always been a challenge. I’m not exaggerating when I say he weighed 200 pounds... he did. I have no idea how “tall” he was because we wouldn’t let him jump on us. He was the most wonderful dog (in spite of the drool on the floor, walls, and ceiling) with my husband, grown kids, and their dogs, and he also was friends with a St. Bernard. In spite of that, he would go ballistic at *some* people. We worked with him for over 4 years, and couldn’t get that part out of him, so we decided we couldn’t wait for the inevitable to happen, we had to put him down before he attacked someone. It was very sad, to say the least, but we aren’t living in fear anymore. There are people who refuse to put their dog down UNTIL he bites someone, but that is way too late IMHO. TYPICALLY, English Mastiffs are “Gentle Giants”. Sadly, we got an exception to that.

[calex59]

I'm all about defending one's family. And I really think all dogs should be behind fences or on leashes. But this article reads strangely. Hey! There's a dog charging my little girl! I better go get my gun! Now, let's see, it's over here in my den. I'll just get it down, easy does it. Let's not panic. Where's my ammo? Right here. Okay. Breathe steady. Loading. Loading. Loading. Okay. I think I'm ready. Now, let's go back and assay the situation. Yup, that dog is still charging my daughter. Okay. Ready. Aim. Fire.

I kind of think that the guy may have been holding the gun, watching the dog and thinking "Go ahead. Make my day."

I'm with you. Unless they printed this wrong it goes like this: He sees the dog come into his yard, the dog charges the child, he "goes to get his gun and shoots the dog" according to the article. How big is his yard? How long does it take a dog to charge across the yard to a child? Unless this guy had the gun in his hand I call BS on his story. The kid would have been dead by the time he got the gun.

I say he killed the dog because he didn't like it coming into his yard, shot the dog, then made up the story about it charging his child.

Even if you had a gun at the ready you may not have the time to shoot the dog before it starts chewing on the kid. Once again, this story is BS.

[marktwain]

“Hey, just refreshed the screen when i got home. Its interesting, i disagreed with you on whether the guy was justified or not. You start in with noob, personal insults, tagline, posting history and all kinda personal slander.”

---

Dogs are property. You are correct there, but it is not the way to win an argument. People are very emotional about dogs, because as you note, they do become man's best friend.

[Eaker]

Is that a min-pin in the one pic?

We have three Min-Pins, a Pomeranian, Coon Hound and a Pit-Bull.

The Pit-Bull does not run the joint!

[Eaker]

Nailed it Bro!

[BCR #226]

"I blame the owner—for even HAVING such a dog in a residential area. An animal of that size is a threat, even if owned by the most responsible of people. Why have such an animal?"

I think this is the most asinine thing I've seen on FR in a long time. Replace dog with gun, or car, or whatever... See the issue?

The problem is the owner didn't respect the nature of the dog and didn't control it. A dog that large is no different from a dog that weighs 2 pounds. They both have teeth and will bite. They also have the same wiring in the brain. Dogs understand the difference between right and wrong when taught. The owner was irresponsible but please don't make blanket statements that insult every large dog owner out there...

Here's our big dog with our daughter....

[familyop]

"BOOM!"

Thanks for illumination round. And here's a related post. Imagine the pit bull worshipers howling with grief over the following. ;-)

Texas State Rep. Wants Drug Testing Before Taxpayer-Paid Unemployment Insurance Payments
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2208831/posts

[CabinJohn]

I agree with your analysis of “he got his gun and shot the dog”; this doesn’t pass the smell test!

In addition, this Bullmastiff that “stands every bit of four feet tall on his back” is considerably larger than the worlds record Mastiff (Mastiff’s are larger than Bullmastiffs). The Guinness Book of World Records had listed Zorba as the largest Mastiff in the world until his death. Zorba was 37” (3 feet 1 inch) tall at the shoulder.

I suspect that the dog’s size is not the only fiction reported in this story.

[Judith Anne]

Yes, she’s never been bred (neutered as a pup) but she mothers and tries to be bossy with the mastiff. The mastiff is polite, but if she has something he wants, he just looks at her till she gets up and walks off.

They’re both nice dogs. I guess I just got lucky. :D

[Eaker]

Min pins are great and that is a handsome mastiff!