Posted on 12/03/2008 11:43:31 PM PST by BP2
When did Obama go to Indonesia?
What is the purpose of this comment? Exactly what kind of people are 'people like [me]'?
14 Stat. 27; Fourteenth Amendment, § 1; United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U. S. 649.
In a comprehensive review of the principles and authorities governing the decision in that case -- that a child born here of alien parentage becomes a citizen of the United States ...
Moore, Int.Law Dig., Vol. III, p. 543.
Secretary William M. Evarts, in 1879, in an instruction to our Minister to Germany with respect to the status of the brothers Boisseliers who were born in the United States of German parentage said:
"Their rights rest on the organic law of the United States. . . . Their father, it is true, took them to Schleswig when they were quite young, the one four and the other two years old. They lived there many years, but during all those years they were minors, and during their minority they returned to the United States, and now, when both have attained their majority, they declare for their native allegiance and submit themselves to the jurisdiction of the country where they were born and of which they are native citizens. Under these circumstances, this Government cannot recognize any claim to their allegiance or their liability to military service, put forth on the part of Germany, whatever may be the municipal law of Germany under which such claim may be asserted by that Government."
Foreign Relations, 1906, p. 657.
"Assuming that Alexander Bohn [the father] never became a citizen of the United States, Jacob Bohn [the son] was born of German parents in the United States. According to the Constitution and laws of the United States as interpreted by the courts, a child born to alien parents in the United States is an American citizen, although such child may also be a citizen of the country of his parents according to the law of that country."
Content and references here. And, of course, excepting those persons not 'subject to the jurisdiction' of the US due to the specific circumstances previously cited.
This assumes that no legal differentiation in US Law or the COTUS between 'native citizen', 'natural born citizen' and 'having citizenship at birth' can be found (as is thus far the case).
Wow. Well, then don't. You've been insinuating I had an agenda since your first post to me on this thread. I guess you sure proved that. Can't refute my arguments so you will engage in personal destruction. I'm sure I've seen that somewhere before. Oh, well.
As a minor. Attended grade school there. Maybe also as an adult, but I don't have details. I haven't touched the 'surrendered his US citizenship by using an Indonesian passport' discussion but there have been some comments on it.
You mean like with Damn Blather and C?BS!. Yeah, the media jumped all over that, right from the top. As I said, if you doubt Polarik's analysis, take it up with him. If, by your reference to '911 truthers', you are referring to Berg, well, sir, you are mistaken about my position. I do not believe that Berg OR Donofrio will accomplish more than to possibly get the SCOTUS to say who is responsible for verifying eligibility. I simply want to have Obama prove his eligibility if he can. I think Obama is a baby-killing, America-hating, scumbag, terrorist loving Marxist who intends to further undermine our country and way of life, and I am appalled that enough people voted for him for him to win the popular election. But if he is eligible to be POTUS then he is and I hope we survive the next two years so we can take Congress away from him and hopefully limit the damage he does. And if he is not...
Well, g'night, all.
“For the gazillionth time... The Constitution requires that the President be a Natural born citizen, not just a citizen.”
sheesh, my kids were born by caesarian section, does that make them ineligible for POTUS?
- after all of your grand-standing, quoting Acts and Rulings that deal with naturalization, and such phrases as "born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States," seemingly ACKNOWLEDGING that Obama was born OUTSIDE of the US...
- hanging your hat on phrases like "is declared to be a citizen of the United States," VS something with TEETH, like "is declared to be a Natural Born Citizen of the United States" -- which we NEED, but which doesn't exist ...
- referencing your primary arguments from the 14th Amendment which was ratified by LESS than 3/5 of the 37 State Legislatures at the time it was codified, instead of 3/4 of the states as REQUIRED by the Constitution (now that's a completely different discussion there) ...
- ignoring the British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): "Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth"...
- intermingling "Jus soli" variations of "Citizen," "Native Born Citizen," "Natural Born Citizen," "Citizen by Birth," etc, while picking "Jus sanguinis" parts of Acts that clearly state things like: "provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend on persons whose fathers have never been resident of the United States." Pulling parts from different Act from different eras...
- blowing off State Dept's FAMs, saying they're "just a Manual," even though they use strong legal references to carry out the nation's Constitutional and Statutory Immigration actions. People are denied or granted citizenship based upon the FAM's EVERYDAY.
- minimizing that Congress has tried to change the NBC issues of Article Two 26 times in the past 140 years, and never getting it out of Committee...
- knowing that before Chester Arthur, who almost surely & fraudulently hid his dual citizenship status while he was VP, the last "foreign born" President and VP help office more than 170 years ago....
- shooting down historical works our forefathers, like Vattel and Blackston, would have certainly used in their law practice and/or as reference to construct wording for the Constitution ... the SAME references that Justice Thomas uses to help interpret the Framer's actions...
Darned right! ;-)
“You mean like with Damn Blather and C?BS!. Yeah, the media jumped all over that, right from the top. As I said, if you doubt Polarik’s analysis, take it up with him. If, by your reference to ‘911 truthers’, you are referring to Berg, well, sir, you are mistaken about my position.’
Dunno if I am or not. I question ‘Polarik’s’ analysis for reasons posted previously. Dr. Neal Krawetz is a verifiable identity with a real reputation on the line. This Polarik shows up with a blotted-out face, a fake name and a voice only a Cylon could love.
No reflection on you, I just won’t believe it’s fake without more and better evidence. Also, that the Obama campaign would try to pass off a fake rather than simply deny access to everything—which was their MO all campaign—requires a better developed suspension of disbelief than I can currently muster.
In the case of Rather, his being hoodwinked (or trying to purposely pass off BS documents as legit) caused a firestorm that eventually cost him his job. In this case, everything I find questioning the legitimacy of the posted BC leads back to Techdude, Polarik or Berg eventually. Since the first is discredited by even his former adherents now, and the last is a 911 truther kook, that leaves Polarik, who might or might not be one of Berg’s ‘experts’ anyway. I would sure expect a much more varied and professional response from the vast multitude of netizens than *that* if the document were actually fake! :)
I can understand the fury of you and others regarding the absolute free pass Obama received—and continues to receive—from the mass media. It would certainly delight me to no end to find he was actually ineligible for the position; which would explain why he was hiding his life so obsessively the entire campaign. However what I’m finding is the case amounts to about the same as the Palin baby ‘controversy.’ Wishful thinking, willfully forgetting in the case of negative evidence that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and outright speculation. There’s just not much here, and the trail ultimately leads back to very dubious sources.
While it might be fun to tweak him a little, (which might well be CT’s motive here) kinda like carding him for beer at his age, in the end it amounts to the part of his life I’m least interested in—the one he had no control over. I wanna know what he did with all the money from the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, what he was doing at Columbia, and for that matter what he was up to as an Illinois state senator. This clown is a complete cipher! :(
“So then just who needs the Supreme Court now that our learned politicians have spoken and defined ‘natural born’ with such certainty in this great Resolution of theirs. Perhaps we just need to remind and hold their feet to the fire.”
Obama could easily just ignore the Supreme Court. Worked for Jackson and Lincoln!
“the Senate has settled the issue for us all, determining in SR511 that ‘natural born’ meant a person born of two American citizen parents and on American territory.”
But McCain wasn’t born on U.S. soil, was he? Anyway, I’ve not read the resolution, but I doubt it said that ONLY people born of two American parents is a natural born citizen. I’m sure it simply said that McCain is a natural born citizen for that reason.
“So ultimately Mother England finaly has her DIRECT blood tied Native son in BHO and it seems ‘they’ will have DIRECT rule over America. His role must have been a long plan in the making.”
This is a parody, right? Or do you sincerely believe Obama is a pod person here to reinstall the Stamp Act?
“I was unaward that the Supreme Court had ruled on the meaning of natural born citizen as it is used in the Constitution.”
You are, of course, aware that SCOTUS has ruled on who is a citizen at birth? Well, I’m no Dutch philosopher, but I think citizen at birth and natural born citizen are the same thing.
“I’m not going to search it now but do go find Cornwallis’ resignation of his sword to Washington wherein he said England would effectively, finally win back the colonies...In doing so the masons in leadership on either side either between themselves and/or at behest of controllers called it a day, but knew another day would come.”
What took so long for the Masons to pop up on this thread?
By the way, for those of you who were in on the pot, the Masons beat the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the International Communist Conspiracy, the Jews, and the Venusians to win control of America. Pay up!
“The stuff conspiracies are made of...”
You say that like it’s a good thing.
By the way, Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy and Obama is most likely a natural born citizen.
“That would be essential. I don’t mind a tourist’s or student’s child becoming American, but if you are not legally in this country, your children should NOT become citizens. I believe that you should not even get social services, free schooling, or welfare. It’s killing us.”
That is exactly the sort of thing, I believe, the “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” clause of the 14th amendment could refer to. Much more likely that than dual citizenship, anyway.
“Also, which other presidential candidates were born outside the country, and why were they ‘understood’ to be eligible?”
Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona territory, and that was controversial, I think, since Arizona didn’t have statehood. The general consensus was that since he was born on land under the juridiction of the federal government he was elligible.
“In the role of Commander in Chief, it is not enough to be above reproach. One must be above the suspicion of reproach. For example, given the emotionalism shown during the Elian Gonzalez case, would a Cuban-born President be perceived as objective in handling a military conflict with Cuba?”
The Constitution doesn’t say “No person except a natural born Citizen above the suspicion of reproach...” This is a matter that can be handled during the election.
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