Posted on 08/29/2008 11:16:01 AM PDT by Bokababe
All that are left are the core group (still fighting the Kosovo war), and some fellow-travelers who have arrived at their position by the paleo (Buchanan) or third party (Paul, etc.) route.
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One of the primary motivating factors here is quite simply the desire to see the U.S. getting poked in the eye.
If you are American, you would not act as if Vladimir Putin is your pimp.
Hey, Tailgunner . . . look who has a crush on you. Be careful, I came across a cross-dressing Serb on this forum just recently.
One last thing, if most of you “were fighting communism since before [I was] even the result of some poor mother’s drunken one-night stand,” then when did you surrender?
I don't have "comrades", nutcase, I have fellow Americans who can think for themselves and who don't just automatically swallow the crap that paid lobbyists and MSM propagandists want to feed us.
The truth is that America screwed up in the Balkans, Russia is exploiting that screw up and shoving our noses in it. If you would have listened to many of us on the Kosovo issue before it happened, America wouldn't be in this position today of wagging our finger at Russia for doing exactly what we did in unilaterally recognizing Kosovo -- and for which the Georgians are paying a terrible price.
The same would not be said about South Ossetia and its relationship to Putin's tyrannical Russia.
Here's your problem: you are fighting the Balkans War. The Balkans War is over. We can spend hours discussing how misguided a war it was (I would even tolerate some off-piste excursions into your Sept. 11th theories). The fact of the matter is, none of it has anything to do with Georgia, apart from a few idiots exclaiming, "nyah nyah, I told you so." Comparing the two conflicts in order to justify the latter because of the former is a failure of logic of epic proportions. That's just the way intelligent people see it.
The stupid do not. I call them Serbs, but I probably shouldn't. I'll stick to calling them commie-symps.
The "word" huh? That's your level of fact finding, huh?
What if I said that the "word" is that Bigmouthbass is a dumbass?
Know what I mean?
And what exactly does the word "independent" mean when you are talking about Kosovo?
"Self-supporting"? No, Kosovo has received something on the or of $6B in aid so far, and GWB just promised it another $400M. Estimates are that Kosovo will require at least another $10B before it even begins to become functional. Currently, even after investing $6B, Kosovo sill has a GDP lower than most of Africa.
A functional democracy with human rights for all its citizens? Hardly. The UN has been managing Kosovo for the last nine years, and that management was just turned over to an EU force. Over 200,000 of Kosovo' non-Albanian citizens were driven out by the NATO bombing are unlikely to ever return, as their homes and land have been confiscated by Albanians who refuse to return that land to its rightful owners. Most of the non-Albanians left in Kosovo, live in "enclaves" -- a fancy word for "ghettos". This doesn't even begin to address the human and drug trafficking that Kosovo's entire economy is currently based on. Kosovo is a black hole of human rights.
Capable of defending itself? No, again. The UN and NATO troops defend Kosovo, and the day that they go home is the same day that Kosovo will cease to be "a country" at all.
We didn't solve anything in Kosovo, we just put a band aid on a cancer that will continue to grow until it devastates everything -- not only in the the neighborhood -- but also in the international order of nations. Kosovo is an demon-seed aberration, not an "independent country". Clinton planted that seed, GWB watered it and this Georgian conflict are its first fruits.
"The same would not be said about South Ossetia and its relationship to Putin's tyrannical Russia."
You are probably right re Russia and S. Ossetia, but that's a circular argument given that we would never recognize S. Ossetia as "independent" in any case, because we support Georgia's sovereignty. Too bad we didn't do the same thing for Serbia with Kosovo, or this precise scenario with Russia using "the Kosovo precedent" for S. Ossetia and Abkhazia would have never been able to take place.
Word.
Ffs, WHO CARES? Are you suggesting that, but for Kosovo, Georgia would not be invaded? And you call yourself a Cold Warrior? Get a clue: it is on.
One conflict does NOT justify the other. However, one conflict paved the way for the other, and it's not like American Russia analysts and others didn't warn us about the consequences of what we were doing, specifically pointing out S. Ossetia and Abkhazia.
One last thing, if most of you “were fighting communism since before [I was] even the result of some poor mother’s drunken one-night stand,” then when did you surrender?
A better question for you would be, "When did you start thinking that defending the creation a welfare state (Kosovo) on stolen land, and which America will have to now perpetually support and defend, WASN'T an act of socialism/communism?"
That is an EXCELLENT question. If you are trying to change the subject.
This is still a holdover from the breakup of the Soviet Union. South Ossetia declared its independence from Georgia in the early 1990s and has de facto sovereignty over large parts of its territory. While neither Georgia nor the international community recognizes the secession as legitimate, Russia has been sympathetic.
Tensions came to a head with Kosovo’s declaration of independence and the push to offer Georgia a membership action plan and eventual inclusion into NATO. Russia immediately began throwing its weight around in both South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. It appears that Russia is now making its play.
Think maybe Clinton justified the action taken by S Ossetia and Russia is taking their side. I see no difference in what NATO is doing in Kosovo which is NOT a democratic sovereign state. Time for you to be gone and maybe the dumbass remark might just fit you.
"That is an EXCELLENT question. If you are trying to change the subject."
You are the one who turned an article about Georgia and the Kosovo precedent into a Serb-bashing fest, childishly tossing the "commie label" at anyone who disagreed with you. Simply pointing out that you would know know what "a real commie" looked like, if you tripped over one.
However, one conflict paved the way for the other, and it's not like American Russia analysts and others didn't warn us about the consequences of what we were doing, specifically pointing out S. Ossetia and Abkhazia.If Kosovo paved the way for Georgia, then what paved the way for Kosovo? I mean, if we're going to take the (commie) relativist route in this whole thing, then why does history start with Kosovo? If things pave the way for other things, then why ignore what has come earlier? I'll tell you why: because people are so intent on pounding the Kosovo square peg into the Georgia round hole that they've lost all capacity to understand how irrational they sound.
You disagree with what Clinton did in Kosovo. I get it. Now we are talking about what Putin has done in Georgia. If you disagree with what Clinton did in Kosovo, then you should disagree with what Putin has done in Georgia. If you try to justify what Putin has done in Georgia because of what Clinton did in Kosovo, then let's face it, you are not a Cold Warrior, your status as a former Cold Warrior is suspect, and you've fallen in with the wrong crowd.
So when's NATO going to step up to the plate and actually confront Putin instead of whining with empty threats?
Yes I know all of what you just posted in your response to me but at least it's a more rational post than what you first posted....
No offense Bigmouthbass, but when somebody takes the "word" of Putin as the truth, I'm going call you on it.
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