Posted on 05/07/2008 10:22:37 AM PDT by Bokababe
“are they moderate in religion...
No.”
It seems to me that there is little evidence of their religiosity. If you have something to offer on that matter it would help your case.
“Any perceived moderation towards agents of the West is driven by the fact that the foreign troops are the only thing preventing the Serbs from reclaiming what is theirs and bringing justice to Kosovo.”
That is a sound judgement. A friend in need is a friend indeed. On the other hand, this applies to all the “friends” of the US, and is probably the only sort of “friends” nations can have.
As long as the Serbs want to attack the Albanians, the Albanians will be friends. If the Serbs desire prosperity and progress they will refrain from your desire. God willing, they will see sense.
And what about the implications of your “moderate Muslim” problem ?
The ultimate conclusion is that there is global linkage between international organized crime and terrorism, and the Albanians are a major part of the crime network. And remember, this was presented pre-9/11
HEARING OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTH CONGRESS (2000): "THREAT POSED BY THE CONVERGENCE OF ORGANIZED CRIME, DRUG TRAFFICKING, AND TERRORISM"
During the NATO campaign against the former Yugoslavia in the Spring of 1999, the Allies looked to the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) to assist in efforts to eject the Serbian army from Kosovo. What was largely hidden from public view was the fact that the KLA raise part of their funds from the sale of narcotics. Albania and Kosovo lie at the heart of the ''Balkan Route'' that links the ''Golden Crescent'' of Afghanistan and Pakistan to the drug markets of Europe. This route is worth an estimated $400 billion a year and handles 80 percent of heroin destined for Europe."
.....The next example leads me to Albania. The ethnic conscience developed in the '80's and 90's in Albania and in particular in the Kosovo region has established a sense of collective identity necessary to engage in organized crime. This is an element that links organized crime from Albania to Panalbanian ideals, politics, military activities and terrorism. Such criminal troops are hierarchically structured, extremely violent, and are mainly involved in heroin smuggling and trafficking in human beings.They have established a good working relationship with the Italian Mafia. Also, cooperative ties have been formed between Turkish and Bulgarian troops.
About half a million Albanians have immigrated to the U.S. and Canada in the past 10 years. The European experience has shown that many Albanian immigrants were ideal candidates for recruitment by existing criminal organizations. They started to build up their own networks and through intensive use of violence managed to dissuade other competing groups. The ability they have shown in developing criminal activities in Europe suggests that Albanian crime groups could occupy an important place among criminal groups in North America in the foreseeable future.
....I would like to draw the particular attention of the Committee to the Groupe Islamique Armé (GIA), considering the events of December last year. On 14 December 1999, Ahmed Ressam, was arrested near Port Angeles, Washington State, while trying to enter the United States from Canada. He was in possession of a timing device, explosive materials and false identification documents. Ahmed Ressam is known to have shared a Montreal (Canada) apartment with Said Atmani, a known document forger for the GIA. It has been established that before Ressam attempted to enter the US, he was in the company of Abdelmajid Dahoumane in Vancouver (Canada) for a 3 to 4 week period. An Interpol Red Notice was issued regarding the latter. The investigation has revealed links between terrorists of Algerian origin and a criminal network established in Montreal and specializing in the theft of portable computers and mobile telephones. The group in Montreal was in contact with individuals involved in terrorist support activity in France, and with several Moudjahidin groups who are active in Bosnia.
Subsequent to the arrest of Ressam, the Montreal police arrested twelve persons who were committing theft of valuable goods in cars in the Montreal downtown area. The proceeds of these criminal activities were sent to an international network with links to France, Belgium, Italy, Turkey, Australia and Bosnia.
The events in Canada and the United States should be seen in a wider perspective. Indeed, intelligence shows that several Algerian terrorist leaders were present at a meeting in Albania, which could also have been attended by Usama bin Laden, who was believed to be in Albania at that time. It was during this meeting that many structures and networks were established for propaganda and fund raising activities, and for providing Algerian armed groups with logistical support. The arrest at the Canada-US border in December 1999 may indicate that the Algerian terrorists are prepared to take their terrorism campaign to North America.
No I do not as the Albanians are involved with illegal activities for the most part. A friend of mine formerly with DynCorp.."The Sherrif" was spirited out of Kosovo by the French Special Forces. The Albanians were within 24 hrs of putting a hit on him just for enforcing the law not just on the Serbs, but also onto the Albanians. He did not feel it was worth it anymore if only the Serbs were fully cooperating (90% for the most part) whereas the Albanians were just the opposite. So, they asked him stay or go and he chose go. For that decision, DynCorp fired him and blacklisted him. He was quite informed about Racak as well.
Never happened as it was reported as those dead bodies were imported from outlaying villages that were KIA'd from a previous fight with Serb militias.
The locals are like the Iraqis, they only tolerate the presence. The differance is, the Iraqis are not involved in illegal trafficking of illicit products like the Albanians. KFOR is just interfering, well, where the US forces are. The rest of the UNMIK and EU Forces recieve some kind of gain for looking away.
So, before blasting the Serbian side, there are two sides to each story. There is also the American mindset for "justification and reasoning" and the Balkan "justi and reasoning" mindset.
You must know history..when there is a strong Serbian state, there is peace. When there is a Serbian state being weakened and torn apart from outside influances, there is conflict in the Balkans. The Croatians were a counterbalance to them = peace.
Maintaining your ignorance about the Wahhabist mosques being built in Kosovo as your defense, are you?
HOW dare you imply that Serbs are the aggressors? An aggressor bombs for days straight killing innocents even during the Holy Easter Season. An aggressor burns and desecrated churches and murders innocents. NOT the Serbian people! The Muslims held the power all those years of enslavement and now the West again takes the wrong side all for economic gain.
AS for the local Roman catholic hierarchy-— going to bed with the muslims is nothing new. Stabbing its fellow Christians in the back is nothing new. The Lord will judge.
As for who pays for what...you need to read about how Islamic entities invest in their operations. It's called divide and conquer and it's been used for hundreds of years to divide the local Christian peoples...still done all the time.
first, no need to insult, second, go ahead and post from new sources.
Start with proving how Albanians are throwing out the Christians and how the Albanians are “Illegal immigrants.”
Go ahead.
who gave that speech? What’s the name of the person? A lot of things have been said in such meetings. The “Bin Laden was in Albania” for one is a clear lie. It’s sourced to the Serbian government and since used liberally by Julia Gorin etc
>> The Christian Orthodox Faith stood by its faithful for hundreds of years in the face of horrors from those who went to the dark side - the Albanians and other muslim brainwashed.
some view faith as the ultimate thing, other do not. Some kill their own blood for converting, others do not. It’s all relative. Personally, I am a Catholic, but if my brother became a Buddhist, he is still my brother and nothing changes. A LOT of despicable things have been done in the name of religion, Muslim and Christian alike. Being a Christian does not guarantee purity, as we all know.
>> HOW dare you imply that Serbs are the aggressors? ...NOT the Serbian people!
You really, really need to read what happened in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. You will be surprised. See this first, http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/blog/2005/07/srebrenica_the_1.html
it’s only 6 people, but you get the idea. Slovenia got lucky and won the war relatively fast. Serbs, just as everyone else, are indeed capable of being aggressors. They are not inherently angels.
As far as insulting Catholics, thanks. We’ll take our chances with God.
Regarding destroyed churches, I’ll remind you that those “medieval Churches” are “medieval” because the horrible Albanians didn’t touch them for 500 years, but let’s Margaret Thatcher, the Iron Lady speak:
“It would be both cruel and stupid to expect the Albanian Kosovans now to return to live under any form of Serbian rule. Kosovo must be given independence, initially under international protection. And there must be no partition, a plan that predictable siren voices are already advancing. Partition would only serve to reward violence and ethnic cleansing. It would be to concede defeat. And I am unmoved by Serb pleas to retain their grasp on most of Kosovo because it contains their holy places. Coming from those who systematically levelled Catholic churches and Muslim mosques wherever they went, such an argument is cynical almost to the point of blasphemy.”
You’ll have to wait, there’s a guy in front of you that wants proof that the sky is blue.
And I’m sorry to report that I’m not in the habit of giving history lessons for free. You want to pretend that you’ve never seen the pictures of all those destroyed Christian Churches, we’ll take the option of watching you deceive yourself without being pulled down to that level.
Anyone who sides with satanic foces be they so called Catholic or Muslim will face the Lord for what they have been doing in the Balkans since the conquest by the Muslim Turks.
As for Maggie Thatcher - she has joined in invoking Hitler’s name by many NATO leaders, including President Bill Clinton in their devilish furious bombings agasint the Serbian people during Easter.
as for Balkan history - you know nothing so don’t go linking BS from PBS.
The facts are what they are and cannot be disputed: Serbian people fought against the Nazis both German /Austrain and their allies the Muslim Albanians and Bosnians and then fought against the Commie Tito - a Catholic Croat by birth.
Like Bosnia-Hercegovina, where some 1500 foreign Mujahedin have settled as Bosnian citizens, Kosovo has become part of the “green wedge” of Muslim territories pushing closer to the gates of Vienna.
If you clicked on this link I gave you, you'd see that the link is the US House of Representatives Document Service. The document is the meeting minutes of the US House, Subcommittee on Crime presentation called "THREAT POSED BY THE CONVERGENCE OF ORGANIZED CRIME, DRUG TRAFFICKING, AND TERRORISM". The authors are listed in the original document, as well as the names those Congressional Representatives who attended this Hearing on December 13th, 2000.
Obviously, the authors of this presetnation did NOT think that the bin Laden meeting in Albania was, as you put it, "a lie".
So tell me, where are you from? Because most Americans would have picked up on the source of the link as NOT being "the Serbian government" or "Julia Gorin", but rather "The US House of Representatives"!
“fetishization of the land....tokenization of the potential victims”
Buwaya - you sound a lot like Ward Churchill or even worse one of the pointy headed apologists for the justification of jihad.
Your total misunderstanding of Balkan history and reality can only be excused by a lifetime of being trapped in an ideological gulag.
Look at the poster in your profile and trace the source.
I’ll tell you why. Before WWII Kosovo was majority Serb. Since Albania was an Axis junior partner, she was allowed to annex Kosovo. Thousands of Serbs were driven out of the country or shipped to concentration camps. Kosovo became majority Albanian. After WWII Tito did nothing to rectify the situation, since he was a Croat. To compound an historical injustice by giving Kosovo to ethnic cleaners is horrendous.
And that has to do with the price of eggs, how? What are you talking about?
I asked where you were from? And that's your answer?
>> You want to pretend that you’ve never seen the pictures of all those destroyed Christian Churches, we’ll take the option of watching you deceive yourself without being pulled down to that level.
NO one denied that Serbian churches were burned and I am not defending it, just as you should not defend the destruction of Cro, Bosnian and Albanian places or worship (be it mosques or Churches) and historical places. Churches and mosques should stay out of politics and out of the firing lines.
You said, Albanians are “illegal immigrants.” Prove it. You can’t because it isn’t true. I spent ALL day yesterday trying to find a reputable source, and all I found is forced migration of Albanians to Turkey, village burnings and massacres in 1912, 1918, and land confiscations to bring in Serb colonists in the 1918-41 (Books by Vickers, Noel, Elsie and Banac).
In 1912, Albanians were at about 75% in population. A book by Danielle Sremac says that 200,000 Albanians came from Albania after WWII, with NO attribution. After reading carefully, she is the Serbian Unity lobbyist http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/reports/sevenfallacies.htm and that in commie Albania escape was punishable by death as treason. Tito and Albania’s psycho had a falling out right away and no else mentions it. 200,000 people moving in from a country of 1 million (Albania is 3 million right now) to Kosovo would have made huge news. It only gets repeated over and over again until someone challenges it. Apparently many people in Serbia believe it:
“Albanians are illegal aliens, they practice polygamy, have 20 children each, make money selling drugs and soon will go where they came from” (this was the summary of the common beliefs by an op-ed writer. I will post a link if I find it again)
There are many arguments to be made, no need to resort to lies. I also found out that Serbia made the same “historical right” claim for half of today’s Albania with two of its ports (Serbia’s “Window to the World.”) The powers disagreed, but they got Kosovo at Russia’s insistence.
Bokababe,
if the Russians or the Chinese commies attack US, I will be fighting alongside you, for the USA. So I’m American, but assume the worst and do to trust my words. Sources on the other hand are different.
I remember reading that K-Albanians did attack /expel recent settlers, but I do not have numbers. If you do, please post them. I doubt they made the difference. As far as them them being pro-nazi, propaganda aside, anyone knows it’s a joke. They refused to fight for them and disbanded when Hitler asked them to fight outside Kosovo. Their main focus was not wanting to be with Serbia. The Chetniks fought the Partisans and Albanians did too when Tito reneged on his promise (after the war was over). It was not religious for either Chetniks or Albanians, just part of the civil war and nothing to do with love of Nazis. Many Albanians apparently joined the partisans in Albania. The same happened in Kosovo after Tito talked to Enver Hodja promising a different Kosovo status.
While there was animosity, apparently Albanians have high birth rates and Kosovo was the poorest place in Yu.
Along the border of Kosovo and Serbia near Novi Pazar...I tried stopping a car full of no-licence plate/registered Albanian car from Kosovo. The reason for their refusal to stop? They did not have papers (passport) they were Serbian citizens, they were illegals from Albania.
Not caring nor giving a crud for the regional local nationals, the reason for Albanians in not working in Government "jobs" is they were not citizens.
Old and Old, maybe if you were ever inside Kosovo and had or were boots on the ground, you would know this crap. Instead of relying on the "internet" and not being able to back up your claims they are of citizenship.
Michael Sells? Who claims to be "of Serbian heritage" but is a Professor of Islamic Studies? He's a Balkan Islamic apologist!
What's next Ahmad Suleyman Stephen Schwartz?
Try those writers who wrote on the Balkans BEFORE the PR Firm, Ruder Finn was hired by the Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. People like David Binder of the NYT, Nora Beloff, Bat Y'eor.
Or those who have written since the wars were over, like Shaul Shay, John Schindler, Christopher Deliso. Not "a Serb" among them.
Most of the writers who were popular during the Balkan wars were just vampires who exploited Balkan myths to make a career for themselves -- people like Roy Gutman, Noel Malcolm, Tim Judah and Phillip Cohen. They are disgusting racists.
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