Skip to comments.German police shoot U.S. soldier dead
Posted on 03/15/2008 1:52:07 AM PDT by SolidWood
BERLIN (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier stationed in southern Germany was shot dead by police after threatening an ex-girlfriend and then going on the run armed with an assault rifle, authorities said on Friday.
The 30-year old, who was serving in the 2nd, "Dagger," brigade of the U.S. 1st Infantry Division, broke into the woman's house late on Thursday, threatened her and tied her up, police in the Bavarian region of Unterfranken said.
She was able to free herself and alerted the police, who began a search using a commando unit and a helicopter equipped with thermal imaging equipment.
Officers found the soldier several hundred meters from the woman's house and tried to arrest him but he threatened them with the semi-automatic rifle and was shot, police said.
He died in hospital early on Friday, according to a statement from the "Dagger" Brigade Chain of Command.
"The Dagger Brigade along with the United States Army Europe takes incidents of this nature extremely seriously and will continue to work with the German authorities to maintain community safety," the statement said.
The name of the soldier was being withheld until his next of kin had been informed, it added.
German police said there was no indication that officers had acted illegally and prosecutors were not planning to open an investigation into the marksmen.
"The officers had to assume that the suspect was going to fire on them with the weapon," a police statement said.
(Reporting by Iain Rogers, editing by Mark Trevelyan)
The first half of the sentence is the present, the second is the future. My Icon is an expression of sadness/anxiousness. Although I think that Mr. Obama will make America looking better in the eyes of the world, because he won´t act "unilaterally", he´s also the worst choice for the global problems. So while I hope that the US reputation will increase (because you are our natural friend - given our cultural bonds), I hope it won´t be Obama doing that, but McCain.
One thing that always struck me was how much more respect German police got from citizens compared to their counterparts in America. Don’t think it was just the fact they carried MP-5’s though... ;)
BTW, things seem to be going fairly well in Iraq lately. Is anyone in Europe aware of this?
Although I think that Mr. Obama will make America looking better in the eyes of the world, because he won´t act "unilaterally", he´s also the worst choice for the global problems.
So you agree that the world's problems are best solved when the US is more willing to act unilaterally?
IMHO, there's no way to deduce that from the available information. He could've just been a sorry human being. There are some of those in the military, unfortunately. Or maybe you're right. We just don't know.
MM (in TX)
Well, as usual the Germans have more cajones than the French in terms of maintaining security. I highly doubt Muslims think of pulling the things they do in France.
Indeed. The German polizei can pull some pretty rough stuff off.
Was in Germany once, with some drunk and very disorderly candians, who thought it would be funny to call some uniformed cops “Nazis”. They pulled a number on the boys. Beat em to a pulp, and then tossed em in Jail like no other.
Oh, I agree. I dealt with them a lot because I worked in the JAG legal office, mostly in criminal law and so I had lots of contact with US MP's, CID, German police, etc. for US forces committing offenses out side a base. What I do know for a fact is that many times we had troops give German police a hard time, thinking US troops did not have to do what they were told to do by the German police, and start some physical thing with the police. The GP always won those little get togethers. Stupid boys trying to tell cops what they can and cannot do to them.
I was in Germany in the mid-70s and again from 87-91. Unless the Status of Forces Agreement has changed significantly since 1991, American forces can own weapons without regard to German laws. They can transport them to/from Germany when they move.
Personnel living in barracks must store them in the unit arms room but those living off-post can keep them in their living quarters.
I don’t think this policy is well-known by the German public and I often wondered what kind of stink that would raise.
I’m guessing it was his Army issue rifle. The Army takes the security of its weapons very seriously, but nothing’s foolproof. When I was over there, a determined thief could very easily have broken into our unit’s armory in the middle of the night and made off with a rifle or ten within a few minutes if he really wanted to. Also, depending on the guy’s rank, he could’ve slipped away with his rifle while going to or returning from the field or the rifle range, etc.
I brought my weapons to Germany with me. You just need to file a form. I think it was called an ABC Form 1 or something.
My rifles I could keep at home, my pistols had to be stored in my Unit’s Armory, when not in use.
When I was stationed in Mannheim, we had excellent Pistol Range. It was right next door to the Stockade. :)
I have no problem, at all, with it. It IS their Country. Many heinous crimes have been committed by Americans over there, and our MP’s are, basically, trained to deal with Military matters. AFAIK, only our Army CID are trained and authorized to enforce off base, without a special agreement.
As I remember it...
Garrison MP’s=Traffic Cops, domestic disputes, Barracks fights,etc.
MPI’s=Investigator’s. Accidents, petty crimes, on base drug busts, etc.
CID=Criminalists. Major crimes.
Says it all for me:
“Officers found the soldier several hundred meters from the woman’s house and tried to arrest him but he threatened them with the semi-automatic rifle and was shot, police said.”
Soldier or not ... he knows the rules of engagement.
Polizei do not f’ing play.
“Here in the Kaiserslautern area...we even had the Army wife (active duty)...who stabbed her alcoholic husband when he threatened her...which she will be facing some kind of assault charges apparently in German court.”
K-town huh? I was Stationed at Landstuhl for 4 years. Lived on Vogelweh. Great area.
Nope, this took place in a German community off base. The young man knew full well what he was dealing with.
“I used to find it somewhat unsettling to see the their cops in white hat, green blazers and automatic weapons slung over their shoulders.”
I always found it comforting.
Exactly the way it ought to be!
I’ve always thought germanic people, including scandinavians, have a far less compromising view of the law. If it’s illegal, you don’t do it. There are no other considerations.
I once saw an American trying to convince a Norwegian to smoke pot... Like arguing with a brick wall.
“Long before 9/11, as you walked through their airports, I used to find it somewhat unsettling to see the their cops in white hat, green blazers and automatic weapons slung over their shoulders.”
Germany had serious problems with leftist terrorist in the 1970s. They got it managed without starting war whith almost the complete middle east. Remember Mogadishu 1977 ?
If this was a guy coming back from Iraq, we are going to be treated to lots more about this incident.
The press is working on spinning our victory in Iraq back into a Vietnam failure, complete with it’s own “crazy vets” myth.
It’s sad if true. With all the lefties and their spinning especially against America and her troops...who the F knows for sure. Maybe the military will do their own investigation and we’ll know for sure this is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Was this recently that you took your weapons with you to Germany?
91-92. I was a Military “dependent” (spouse) at the time. I lived in Gross Zimmern, sub of Darmstadt.
Has it changed since?
Just looked it up - apparently the SOFA was renegotiated a few years ago (I remember hearing something about that).
The following information was taken from this page:
(similar information at a USAREUR web site)
Privately Owned Firearms (POFs)
To avoid the possibility of German criminal prosecution for unauthorized possession of weapons or the possibility of punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, privately owned firearms will not be shipped, handcarried, or transported in luggage to Germany until further notice. The ownership and possession of privately owned firearms is prohibited by German law unless the owner has a German Weapons Possession Card(Waffenbesitzkarte). Headquarters, USAREUR and German Federal Ministry of the Interior are developing procedures to enable military and civilian personnel assigned to Germany and their dependents to obtain these cards through the USAREUR Central Registry. This instruction will be modified or rescinded when the weapons permit procedures are finalized and implemented. (CH)
Um....well.....we do have US military bases in Germany.
This is indeed, very sad.
WE are in THEIR country. When in any foreign country, you must respect the laws and the authorities thereof.
Would you feel the same way if a German soldier did this on OUR soil?
Just a related question....weren’t there German commandos at Waco, back in 1993? Does anyone else know anything about such reports?
There's nothing like the sight of a cop armed with a sub-machine gun strolling the concourse of the airport in Frankfurt to disabuse one of any such notion.
I have a friend who's worked with the Polizei. They're pretty effective with nightsticks, too. And the ACLU does not have a following in Germany.
It changed significantly around 2000. I left in 2001 and was one of the last people in my unit allowed to keep my weapons at home because I was leaving right about the same time the ban on GIs keeping privately owned weapons kicked in.
Very sad indeed..but the headline was a bit misleading. I was thinking, unprovoked attack for a second. PS: I’m not the thread title police, just an observation.
What kind of crock is this? Since when is the US at war with the complete ME? Since when did the US start it? Remember 9/11? Do you suggest that getting rid of Taliban and Saddam is a catastrophe? You are new here... I take it you are not American, are you?
Yeah, it’s the same in the U.S. Army, too. He either took it during the day, like you say, or the armorer didn’t actually do a barrel count but said he did.
“Germany had serious problems with leftist terrorist in the 1970s.”
Baader Meinhof was the big problem when I was there.
What’s the Exit Strategy from Germany?
Very sad. Sounds like the guy had some serious issues. I’m just glad he didn’t kill the woman involved.
What’s a “eunic”?
Most ex-GI’s I know said you don’t mess around with German cops.
How true! There were no cries to bring me home during the almost 13 years I spent there.... I'm glad- what an experience. Though, I didn't go on any shooting-sprees.;-)
Its one of the earlier Programming Languages.
Definitely not. I can´t see where I should have expressed that. But global problems can be best solved when they´re not ignored or played down. I expect from a US president to push for reasonable solutions, and to be honest, President Bush has disappointed me with regard to Iran lately.
Its Germany, would you want a dozen foreign military police units running around in America with guns taking care of their problems?
Hats off to the Germans for handling it, we owe them an apology for having an unstable service man in their homeland.
Actually, it was most likely his assigned service weapon. He may have had it signed out of the arms room for cleaning and then slipped off base without permission when no one was looking.
Not hard to do at all. Most would never do it for fear of getting caught and the rather severe consequences that would follow. He obviously did not care about that.
They have them and use them. Most cops carry a 9mm semi-auto pistol on their hips and a fully-automatic weapon like the UZI or an MP5 in their car.
When I was in Germany (80-83), the rule was never to mess with the German police. Present them with an armed threat and they will kill you. No ACLU in Duetchland.