Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

German police shoot U.S. soldier dead
Yahoo news ^ | Mar 14 | Reuters

Posted on 03/15/2008 1:52:07 AM PDT by SolidWood

BERLIN (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier stationed in southern Germany was shot dead by police after threatening an ex-girlfriend and then going on the run armed with an assault rifle, authorities said on Friday.

The 30-year old, who was serving in the 2nd, "Dagger," brigade of the U.S. 1st Infantry Division, broke into the woman's house late on Thursday, threatened her and tied her up, police in the Bavarian region of Unterfranken said.

She was able to free herself and alerted the police, who began a search using a commando unit and a helicopter equipped with thermal imaging equipment.

Officers found the soldier several hundred meters from the woman's house and tried to arrest him but he threatened them with the semi-automatic rifle and was shot, police said.

He died in hospital early on Friday, according to a statement from the "Dagger" Brigade Chain of Command.

"The Dagger Brigade along with the United States Army Europe takes incidents of this nature extremely seriously and will continue to work with the German authorities to maintain community safety," the statement said.

The name of the soldier was being withheld until his next of kin had been informed, it added.

German police said there was no indication that officers had acted illegally and prosecutors were not planning to open an investigation into the marksmen.

"The officers had to assume that the suspect was going to fire on them with the weapon," a police statement said.

(Reporting by Iain Rogers, editing by Mark Trevelyan)


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1stid; army; daggerbrigade; germany; police; soldier
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-110 next last

1 posted on 03/15/2008 1:52:09 AM PDT by SolidWood
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

bump


2 posted on 03/15/2008 2:09:19 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

Kind of a sad event. This guy had issues and he was messing around with a weapon in Germany...which the German cops won’t give you much discussion. I’m betting either drugs or alcohol were involved as well. Over the past three years...there have been a dozen similar incidents...although this is the only time the cops pulled out their weapons and had to shoot the guy. The interesting thing...these incidents all involve girlfriends or former girlfriends. Here in the Kaiserslautern area...we even had the Army wife (active duty)...who stabbed her alcoholic husband when he threatened her...which she will be facing some kind of assault charges apparently in German court.


3 posted on 03/15/2008 2:11:08 AM PDT by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

Profoundly sad story: nobody wins in this one.


4 posted on 03/15/2008 2:23:39 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghill mi do dhuine. Fg am bealach.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

In any sizable group, someone’s going to go bonkers.


5 posted on 03/15/2008 2:30:29 AM PDT by Westlander (Unleash the Neutron Bomb)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

Prayers for everyone involved in this tragedy.


6 posted on 03/15/2008 2:32:51 AM PDT by LibertyRocks (The Liberty Rocks Blog - http://libertyrocks.wordpress.com ~ also see; http://www.libertyrocks.us)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood
Sounds like a note in their service jackets for a chaplain and a shrink. This didn't happen all at once.
7 posted on 03/15/2008 4:13:29 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Westlander
In any sizable group, someone’s going to go bonkers.

Wisdom for the day. Gotta remember that one - simple and true.

8 posted on 03/15/2008 4:48:09 AM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

Very sad. The cops did what they had to do.


9 posted on 03/15/2008 4:52:31 AM PDT by DogBarkTree (The correct word isn't "immigrant" when what they are doing is "invading".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

Gun control at work again. Germany has some of the toughest gun control laws in the world, so where did he get his rifle?

I am not military, but (since we arent’ in Switzerland), I can’t imagine that soldiers take their issue rifles home with them.


10 posted on 03/15/2008 5:02:24 AM PDT by bone52
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bone52
Gun control at work again. Germany has some of the toughest gun control laws in the world, so where did he get his rifle?

I wonder how difficult it would've been for him to travel back to the US on leave and mail the rifle to his German address? Probably not very difficult at all.

11 posted on 03/15/2008 5:07:30 AM PDT by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Drew68

I would suspect a soldier wouldn’t be so stupid as to break numerous US and German laws by mailing a rifle to himself. If he bought the rifle from a dealer he knows about FFL’s and their role in firearm exchanges.

Additionally, USPS has increased their package screening since 9/11. If a rifle size and weight package being sent to a military APO doesn’t raise suspicions . . .

What I am saying is it seems unlikely that he mailed the rifle to himself.


12 posted on 03/15/2008 5:16:02 AM PDT by bone52
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Drew68

I would suspect a soldier wouldn’t be so stupid as to break numerous US and German laws by mailing a rifle to himself. If he bought the rifle from a dealer he knows about FFL’s and their role in firearm exchanges.

Additionally, USPS has increased their package screening since 9/11. If a rifle size and weight package being sent to a military APO doesn’t raise suspicions . . .

What I am saying is it seems unlikely that he mailed the rifle to himself.


13 posted on 03/15/2008 5:16:03 AM PDT by bone52
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: bone52

When I was stationed in Germany in the lates 70’s, we had a “Rod and Gun Club” on base. One could purchase weapons there ... rifles, handguns, shotguns. Most of the guys kept theirs in the armory for safekeeping. There are many hunters in Germany and the game is plentiful. Not being a hunter myself, I’m not sure what all was involved in getting a hunters license but I’m sure that it was legal to own weapons. Many times sitting in an off-base Coventional Weapons storage area early in the morning, guarding the munitions, I would see armed hunters right outside of my fence.


14 posted on 03/15/2008 5:27:51 AM PDT by Mustng959
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

Sad but it appears the cops did the right thing.


15 posted on 03/15/2008 6:03:47 AM PDT by aculeus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

Do they let police have guns in Germany? I thought they were basically eunics.


16 posted on 03/15/2008 6:09:37 AM PDT by Brilliant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pepsionice

I have a problem when we let Germans and not our own army deal with such problems. It’s a bad precedent.

As for these problems having to deal with girlfriends, it is indeed alarming. Any such could be a foreign spy playing with a guy and we kill our own instead. As a matter of fact it has been the method of feminists of late. Even women who stand by their men see the couple being attacked by jealous third parties and strangely hungry prosecutions.


17 posted on 03/15/2008 6:11:31 AM PDT by JudgemAll (control freaks, their world & their problem with my gun and my protecting my private party)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant

Ah, not so when we help them out from behind. It’s PC in Germany to kill an American, not so to kill a Turk or an anarchist.


18 posted on 03/15/2008 6:13:11 AM PDT by JudgemAll (control freaks, their world & their problem with my gun and my protecting my private party)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant
You're thinking of the U.K. German police are well armed and trained.

CC

19 posted on 03/15/2008 6:17:39 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative ("Minutum Cantorum, Minutum Baloram, Minutum Carboratum Descendam Pantorum")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant
Do they let police have guns in Germany? I thought they were basically eunics.

You are thinking of England. The German cops are well armed and professional. You don't want to mess with the German cops.

This sounds like a standard 'suicide by cop'.

20 posted on 03/15/2008 6:20:06 AM PDT by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: JudgemAll
I have a problem when we let Germans and not our own army deal with such problems. It’s a bad precedent.

I disagree. He had broken into her home out in town and was fair game. Additionally, he might not have even been I.D.'d as a US soldier until after he was shot and killed.

I'm a sailor and whenever we pull into port, we are reminded that if we break the local laws, we're on our own. Often, the local police will do a "courtesy turnover" for drunk and disorderly sailors but not for something like this.

21 posted on 03/15/2008 6:20:09 AM PDT by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant
I still recall a coupla Polizei mit 9mm walking briskly into our battalion HQ, politely looking for a major who'd ignored a mailed photo ticket for speeding.

Of course it was all an oversight and he would be mailing them a check sofort. I was battalion S-2 clerk and had a .45 in my desk draw. I was also the first person you saw on entering battalion HQ. The very first thing a GI in Germany learned was not to give the Polizei any Scheiss. In the day, European police in general were a lot less inclined to take any than the cops in the World.

22 posted on 03/15/2008 6:22:18 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The women got the vote and the Nation got Harding.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

this allows to open the door to....germany is a quagmire....the US should pull its troops and withdraw a.s.a.p.!!!!! FDR & Truman lied.....US troops must die....

the lib/dems are all over juan mccain for his 100 year iraq comment...but never mention ~ germany/korea/bosnia & kosovo...oh wait...the lib/dems put the US troops in these places....so it does NOT count!!!!


23 posted on 03/15/2008 6:27:38 AM PDT by nyyankeefan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JudgemAll
It's pretty much covered in the SOFA (status of forces agreement). Legal issues of GIs off base, not involving official duties, are pretty much in the purview of the German civil authorities.
24 posted on 03/15/2008 6:33:17 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The women got the vote and the Nation got Harding.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: JudgemAll

It’s called the Status of Forces Agreement; the US has them with most countries, as do those countries with soldiers training here in the US. I could just imagine a German soldier training at Ft Bliss or Ft Sill being remanded to the German military after a similar incident. Would not go over well.


25 posted on 03/15/2008 6:43:09 AM PDT by Hurtgen (the good guys always get it in the end)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

I wonder how people in Germany are reacting to this?


26 posted on 03/15/2008 6:46:08 AM PDT by Yardstick
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mustng959

It is possible to get a firearm in germany, but it is very difficult. I also suspect that German weapon laws are a lot more strict now than in the seventies. An example of this is that the German government recently passed a law banning the possession of toys that resemble real firearms.

It is possible to purchase a firearm in Germany. However, you have to have a “waffenschein” (license) for the weapon. Getting a weapons license and a hunting license is very expensive. And, to the extent of my knowledge, you cannot store your weapons in your house, but have to leave them at a shooting club.


27 posted on 03/15/2008 6:47:42 AM PDT by bone52
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Yardstick

“I wonder how people in Germany are reacting to this?”

Most people are wondering how he managed to get his M4 off base. Due to the strict gun laws in Germany walking around with a M4 is a crime. So by german law police was allowed to shoot him in self defence, even if he only pointed on’em with the gun.


28 posted on 03/15/2008 6:59:38 AM PDT by buzzer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: JudgemAll

“I have a problem when we let Germans and not our own army deal with such problems. It’s a bad precedent.”

It all happened on german soil, off the base, nobody might have known that he is a us soldier until he got killed.


29 posted on 03/15/2008 7:01:49 AM PDT by buzzer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood
A U.S. soldier stationed in southern Germany was shot dead by police after threatening an ex-girlfriend and then going on the run armed with an assault rifle, authorities said on Friday.

Good for them. Sad that it had to be done.

30 posted on 03/15/2008 7:05:16 AM PDT by Onelifetogive (This is an Obama-nation!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

***BERLIN (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier stationed in southern Germany was shot dead by police after threatening an ex-girlfriend and then going on the run armed with an assault rifle

***he threatened them with the semi-automatic rifle and was shot,***

?
so, what was he armed with?


31 posted on 03/15/2008 7:20:23 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Yardstick
Unfortunately many will use it to arch an eyebrow and mutter, “Schtuckscheisse Amis!”

The Euro press (even more left than ours, if that's even possible) loves to portray American GIs as murderous thugs or automatons. Many on the Left fall for this hook, line, and sinker. 60+ years of commie propaganda has that effect.

They'll blow it all out of proportion.

32 posted on 03/15/2008 7:30:19 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Alas Babylon!

That was my first thought. It confirms their prejudices. I would expect a kind of leftist glee over this.

Except I’ll bet it’s more than just the lefties. It’ll bet it’s the nationalist types too.


33 posted on 03/15/2008 7:38:05 AM PDT by Yardstick
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant
Do they let police have guns in Germany?

If not, I wonder what they shot him with..

34 posted on 03/15/2008 7:38:18 AM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: JudgemAll
It's their country and it all happened on the "economy" as we used to say...meaning on their soil, off-base.

The German Police do not mess around. When they tell you to stop, you stop. Any aggressive move whatsoever on the part of a potential perp is handled very severely.

I lived thee for two years in the 70's.

If this report is accurate, then the German Police did, off base, on their soveriegn soil, what they had to do to protect themselves and their citizens.

I's too bad one of our own behaved in this manner...but we have bad apples and he acted criminally and threatened life, and paid with his own.

While I was there, one guy took a tank off base and ended up running through a German town and crushing several cars. German citizens were killed. In that case MP's got on top of the tank and were able to get it opened and stop the guy. There was a big international flap over it because as you can imagine, the Germans wanted that guy. I can't remember whether afterwards they ever got him...but I know the Germans were extremely angy (and understandbly so) over it. The guy porobably got harsher treatment in Leavenworth or somewhere as he would have gotten in Germany...but I cannot blame them for wanting to try and punish him themsleves.

35 posted on 03/15/2008 7:54:56 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant

Long before 9/11, as you walked through their airports, I used to find it somewhat unsettling to see the their cops in white hat, green blazers and automatic weapons slung over their shoulders.

You never saw such a display of force in the U.S. like that.


36 posted on 03/15/2008 7:57:20 AM PDT by toddlintown (Michelle Obama; Teresa Heinz, minus the gin-soaked raisins.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant
Do they let police have guns in Germany? I thought they were basically eunics.

You must be thinking of England. German Police are armed to the teeth. Go to the Frankfurt airport and you would think you were in downtown Iraq. It is heavily armed with police with submachine guns around their necks. All German patrol police carry side arms. But having lived in Germany for 10 of my 20 years on active duty, YOU DO NOT MESS with the German police. They will beat the crap out of you. German law is different than American law, thus they get away with more force over there. Can beat a confession out of you sometimes and get away with it. They also have strong anti-terrorist teams since the Munich massacre back in the Olympics in 1972. I was there at that time. I had been to the Games just that prior week in Munich before this happened. All US forces in Germany were put on high alert that day.

37 posted on 03/15/2008 8:10:48 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (Obama nor Hillary have the gonads to be my President.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Westlander; Lonesome in Massachussets
In any sizable group, someone’s going to go bonkers.

Sad, but simple truth.

It's pretty much covered in the SOFA (status of forces agreement). Legal issues of GIs off base, not involving official duties, are pretty much in the purview of the German civil authorities.

Exactly. However, if I remember correctly, there are some cases where the MP needs to be involved. E.g.: Police law is state law in Germany. In some states, in order not to complete block the court system, policemen can send potheads off with just a warning, if they only find like one joint on them. They can't do that with US army personnel.

So they hate to pick up US soldiers in the Dutch-German border area, as that always means tons of paperwork. *LOL

It is possible to purchase a firearm in Germany. However, you have to have a “waffenschein” (license) for the weapon. Getting a weapons license and a hunting license is very expensive.

Actually, a Waffenschein allows you to carry a weapon (e.g. as a bodyguard etc.) in public, in that case, you need to prove first that it's imperative that you carry a weapon.

What you mean is a "Waffenbesitzschein", that allows you to own a weapon, that's way easier to get, e.g. you just need to be a hunter or a sportsman. What is expensive is the schooling you need to get your hunting license first, the figures I found on the internet are €1000 - €1500.

And, to the extent of my knowledge, you cannot store your weapons in your house, but have to leave them at a shooting club.

Depends on the type of weapon and the safety provisions you can guarantee at home (also, the police might check up on you to see if your rifles and guns are stored properly). In general, both variants exist.
38 posted on 03/15/2008 8:22:08 AM PDT by wolf78
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood

I lived in that region of Germany for most of 2007. The bases in that area (Bamberg, Schweinfurt, Wuerzburg) are involved in pre-deployment and post-deployment activities. More than likely I would assume that this was someone coming back from Iraq.

I’ve talked with a few of these guys over beers in various pubs during the evening. They can get quite rowdy. But they pump A LOT of money into the local economy. It will be sad when those bases close down.


39 posted on 03/15/2008 8:23:18 AM PDT by AntiKev (Von nichts kommt nichts.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Proud Canadian

Ping.

This is where I was living over there.


40 posted on 03/15/2008 8:23:48 AM PDT by AntiKev (Von nichts kommt nichts.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: nyyankeefan

What a stupid reply.


41 posted on 03/15/2008 8:27:56 AM PDT by Weird Tolkienish Figure
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: RetiredArmy
Go to the Frankfurt airport and you would think you were in downtown Iraq.

That is so true. Just one comment: What you see at Frankfurt airport is the federal police, called Bundespolizei (BPOL) or (formerly) Bundesgrenzschutz (BGS).



They also have strong anti-terrorist teams since the Munich massacre back in the Olympics in 1972.

Best known is the the GSG 9 unit, especially for liberating Lufthansa Flight 181 in Somalia. The GSG 9 is also part of the BPOL/BGS.


42 posted on 03/15/2008 8:36:46 AM PDT by wolf78
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: bone52

It is said (in other sources) that he illegally took the semi-automatic gun (! you can´t buy that in Germany!) from the armory of his unit. Depending on the rank and influence of this soldier, this doesn´t sound strange.


43 posted on 03/15/2008 8:37:55 AM PDT by Michael81Dus (Ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Michael81Dus

That’s possible to do, even for a low-ranking Soldier. It depends on a multitude of factors, the most prominent one being how closely the company armorer tracks his arms room inventory before closing up for the day. Obviously that commander has some ‘splainin’ to do.


44 posted on 03/15/2008 8:39:59 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (Dude, where's my adrenaline?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Alas Babylon!; Yardstick; buzzer

The incident is reported in a neutral way, just like the Yahoo message. This happens every day somewhere in the world - maybe not with soldiers involved, but you can find mad ex-friends all around. Since it´s not a special US/German affair, it´s not a big news message here. Don´t worry, the Iraq war destroyed all the US reputation, but Barrack Osama will build it up again! :-/


45 posted on 03/15/2008 8:59:55 AM PDT by Michael81Dus (Ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Future Snake Eater

In the German forces, nobody gets off until the unit armory is counted and safe. When I was in deputy CO, it was the most important thing to ask in the late afternoon: “armory closed, counted and safe?” So I can imagine, the offender took the gun over the day, made it somehow off the base and kidnapped his ex.


46 posted on 03/15/2008 9:04:23 AM PDT by Michael81Dus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: RetiredArmy

These days, Army national guard patrols JFK airport, too.


47 posted on 03/15/2008 9:05:41 AM PDT by Michael81Dus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Michael81Dus
Michael, you know that given the tensions between Europe and the US these days, and the anti-Americanism that's prevalent in Europe, that this isn't just going to be received in a neutral way. I'm not saying it's huge, but it will be received with satisfaction by many with an anti-American bent.

Don´t worry, the Iraq war destroyed all the US reputation, but Barrack Osama will build it up again! :-/

I wonder what you mean by this. Is this sarcasm? Or are you venting a little of your own angst towards America here?

48 posted on 03/15/2008 9:09:57 AM PDT by Yardstick
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: SolidWood
The 30-year old, who was serving in the 2nd, "Dagger," brigade of the U.S. 1st Infantry Division

Kinda off topic, but.....

A news story actually identifies the Division and Brigade of an Army soldier! Usually it's something like, "A U.S. Army soldier, who was in 1st Platoon....."

49 posted on 03/15/2008 9:10:46 AM PDT by IDontLikeToPayTaxes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant

One of the first things they told us upon arrival to US Army-Europe was: “if stopped by the police, do exactly what they tell you to. Call the MP’s when you get a chance”. Why? German police are heavily armed, well trained, and don’t mess around. Always appeared to be good advice.

Regards,


50 posted on 03/15/2008 9:18:58 AM PDT by Thunder 6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-110 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson