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German police shoot U.S. soldier dead
Yahoo news ^ | Mar 14 | Reuters

Posted on 03/15/2008 1:52:07 AM PDT by SolidWood

BERLIN (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier stationed in southern Germany was shot dead by police after threatening an ex-girlfriend and then going on the run armed with an assault rifle, authorities said on Friday.

The 30-year old, who was serving in the 2nd, "Dagger," brigade of the U.S. 1st Infantry Division, broke into the woman's house late on Thursday, threatened her and tied her up, police in the Bavarian region of Unterfranken said.

She was able to free herself and alerted the police, who began a search using a commando unit and a helicopter equipped with thermal imaging equipment.

Officers found the soldier several hundred meters from the woman's house and tried to arrest him but he threatened them with the semi-automatic rifle and was shot, police said.

He died in hospital early on Friday, according to a statement from the "Dagger" Brigade Chain of Command.

"The Dagger Brigade along with the United States Army Europe takes incidents of this nature extremely seriously and will continue to work with the German authorities to maintain community safety," the statement said.

The name of the soldier was being withheld until his next of kin had been informed, it added.

German police said there was no indication that officers had acted illegally and prosecutors were not planning to open an investigation into the marksmen.

"The officers had to assume that the suspect was going to fire on them with the weapon," a police statement said.

(Reporting by Iain Rogers, editing by Mark Trevelyan)


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1stid; army; daggerbrigade; germany; police; soldier
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To: JudgemAll
I have a problem when we let Germans and not our own army deal with such problems. It’s a bad precedent.

I disagree. He had broken into her home out in town and was fair game. Additionally, he might not have even been I.D.'d as a US soldier until after he was shot and killed.

I'm a sailor and whenever we pull into port, we are reminded that if we break the local laws, we're on our own. Often, the local police will do a "courtesy turnover" for drunk and disorderly sailors but not for something like this.

21 posted on 03/15/2008 6:20:09 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: Brilliant
I still recall a coupla Polizei mit 9mm walking briskly into our battalion HQ, politely looking for a major who'd ignored a mailed photo ticket for speeding.

Of course it was all an oversight and he would be mailing them a check sofort. I was battalion S-2 clerk and had a .45 in my desk draw. I was also the first person you saw on entering battalion HQ. The very first thing a GI in Germany learned was not to give the Polizei any Scheiss. In the day, European police in general were a lot less inclined to take any than the cops in the World.

22 posted on 03/15/2008 6:22:18 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The women got the vote and the Nation got Harding.)
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To: SolidWood

this allows to open the door to....germany is a quagmire....the US should pull its troops and withdraw a.s.a.p.!!!!! FDR & Truman lied.....US troops must die....

the lib/dems are all over juan mccain for his 100 year iraq comment...but never mention ~ germany/korea/bosnia & kosovo...oh wait...the lib/dems put the US troops in these places....so it does NOT count!!!!


23 posted on 03/15/2008 6:27:38 AM PDT by nyyankeefan
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To: JudgemAll
It's pretty much covered in the SOFA (status of forces agreement). Legal issues of GIs off base, not involving official duties, are pretty much in the purview of the German civil authorities.
24 posted on 03/15/2008 6:33:17 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The women got the vote and the Nation got Harding.)
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To: JudgemAll

It’s called the Status of Forces Agreement; the US has them with most countries, as do those countries with soldiers training here in the US. I could just imagine a German soldier training at Ft Bliss or Ft Sill being remanded to the German military after a similar incident. Would not go over well.


25 posted on 03/15/2008 6:43:09 AM PDT by Hurtgen (the good guys always get it in the end)
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To: SolidWood

I wonder how people in Germany are reacting to this?


26 posted on 03/15/2008 6:46:08 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Mustng959

It is possible to get a firearm in germany, but it is very difficult. I also suspect that German weapon laws are a lot more strict now than in the seventies. An example of this is that the German government recently passed a law banning the possession of toys that resemble real firearms.

It is possible to purchase a firearm in Germany. However, you have to have a “waffenschein” (license) for the weapon. Getting a weapons license and a hunting license is very expensive. And, to the extent of my knowledge, you cannot store your weapons in your house, but have to leave them at a shooting club.


27 posted on 03/15/2008 6:47:42 AM PDT by bone52
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To: Yardstick

“I wonder how people in Germany are reacting to this?”

Most people are wondering how he managed to get his M4 off base. Due to the strict gun laws in Germany walking around with a M4 is a crime. So by german law police was allowed to shoot him in self defence, even if he only pointed on’em with the gun.


28 posted on 03/15/2008 6:59:38 AM PDT by buzzer
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To: JudgemAll

“I have a problem when we let Germans and not our own army deal with such problems. It’s a bad precedent.”

It all happened on german soil, off the base, nobody might have known that he is a us soldier until he got killed.


29 posted on 03/15/2008 7:01:49 AM PDT by buzzer
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To: SolidWood
A U.S. soldier stationed in southern Germany was shot dead by police after threatening an ex-girlfriend and then going on the run armed with an assault rifle, authorities said on Friday.

Good for them. Sad that it had to be done.

30 posted on 03/15/2008 7:05:16 AM PDT by Onelifetogive (This is an Obama-nation!)
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To: SolidWood

***BERLIN (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier stationed in southern Germany was shot dead by police after threatening an ex-girlfriend and then going on the run armed with an assault rifle

***he threatened them with the semi-automatic rifle and was shot,***

?
so, what was he armed with?


31 posted on 03/15/2008 7:20:23 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: Yardstick
Unfortunately many will use it to arch an eyebrow and mutter, “Schtuckscheisse Amis!”

The Euro press (even more left than ours, if that's even possible) loves to portray American GIs as murderous thugs or automatons. Many on the Left fall for this hook, line, and sinker. 60+ years of commie propaganda has that effect.

They'll blow it all out of proportion.

32 posted on 03/15/2008 7:30:19 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Alas Babylon!

That was my first thought. It confirms their prejudices. I would expect a kind of leftist glee over this.

Except I’ll bet it’s more than just the lefties. It’ll bet it’s the nationalist types too.


33 posted on 03/15/2008 7:38:05 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Brilliant
Do they let police have guns in Germany?

If not, I wonder what they shot him with..

34 posted on 03/15/2008 7:38:18 AM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: JudgemAll
It's their country and it all happened on the "economy" as we used to say...meaning on their soil, off-base.

The German Police do not mess around. When they tell you to stop, you stop. Any aggressive move whatsoever on the part of a potential perp is handled very severely.

I lived thee for two years in the 70's.

If this report is accurate, then the German Police did, off base, on their soveriegn soil, what they had to do to protect themselves and their citizens.

I's too bad one of our own behaved in this manner...but we have bad apples and he acted criminally and threatened life, and paid with his own.

While I was there, one guy took a tank off base and ended up running through a German town and crushing several cars. German citizens were killed. In that case MP's got on top of the tank and were able to get it opened and stop the guy. There was a big international flap over it because as you can imagine, the Germans wanted that guy. I can't remember whether afterwards they ever got him...but I know the Germans were extremely angy (and understandbly so) over it. The guy porobably got harsher treatment in Leavenworth or somewhere as he would have gotten in Germany...but I cannot blame them for wanting to try and punish him themsleves.

35 posted on 03/15/2008 7:54:56 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Brilliant

Long before 9/11, as you walked through their airports, I used to find it somewhat unsettling to see the their cops in white hat, green blazers and automatic weapons slung over their shoulders.

You never saw such a display of force in the U.S. like that.


36 posted on 03/15/2008 7:57:20 AM PDT by toddlintown (Michelle Obama; Teresa Heinz, minus the gin-soaked raisins.)
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To: Brilliant
Do they let police have guns in Germany? I thought they were basically eunics.

You must be thinking of England. German Police are armed to the teeth. Go to the Frankfurt airport and you would think you were in downtown Iraq. It is heavily armed with police with submachine guns around their necks. All German patrol police carry side arms. But having lived in Germany for 10 of my 20 years on active duty, YOU DO NOT MESS with the German police. They will beat the crap out of you. German law is different than American law, thus they get away with more force over there. Can beat a confession out of you sometimes and get away with it. They also have strong anti-terrorist teams since the Munich massacre back in the Olympics in 1972. I was there at that time. I had been to the Games just that prior week in Munich before this happened. All US forces in Germany were put on high alert that day.

37 posted on 03/15/2008 8:10:48 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (Obama nor Hillary have the gonads to be my President.)
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To: Westlander; Lonesome in Massachussets
In any sizable group, someone’s going to go bonkers.

Sad, but simple truth.

It's pretty much covered in the SOFA (status of forces agreement). Legal issues of GIs off base, not involving official duties, are pretty much in the purview of the German civil authorities.

Exactly. However, if I remember correctly, there are some cases where the MP needs to be involved. E.g.: Police law is state law in Germany. In some states, in order not to complete block the court system, policemen can send potheads off with just a warning, if they only find like one joint on them. They can't do that with US army personnel.

So they hate to pick up US soldiers in the Dutch-German border area, as that always means tons of paperwork. *LOL

It is possible to purchase a firearm in Germany. However, you have to have a “waffenschein” (license) for the weapon. Getting a weapons license and a hunting license is very expensive.

Actually, a Waffenschein allows you to carry a weapon (e.g. as a bodyguard etc.) in public, in that case, you need to prove first that it's imperative that you carry a weapon.

What you mean is a "Waffenbesitzschein", that allows you to own a weapon, that's way easier to get, e.g. you just need to be a hunter or a sportsman. What is expensive is the schooling you need to get your hunting license first, the figures I found on the internet are €1000 - €1500.

And, to the extent of my knowledge, you cannot store your weapons in your house, but have to leave them at a shooting club.

Depends on the type of weapon and the safety provisions you can guarantee at home (also, the police might check up on you to see if your rifles and guns are stored properly). In general, both variants exist.
38 posted on 03/15/2008 8:22:08 AM PDT by wolf78
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To: SolidWood

I lived in that region of Germany for most of 2007. The bases in that area (Bamberg, Schweinfurt, Wuerzburg) are involved in pre-deployment and post-deployment activities. More than likely I would assume that this was someone coming back from Iraq.

I’ve talked with a few of these guys over beers in various pubs during the evening. They can get quite rowdy. But they pump A LOT of money into the local economy. It will be sad when those bases close down.


39 posted on 03/15/2008 8:23:18 AM PDT by AntiKev (Von nichts kommt nichts.)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Ping.

This is where I was living over there.


40 posted on 03/15/2008 8:23:48 AM PDT by AntiKev (Von nichts kommt nichts.)
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