Posted on 12/11/2007 4:12:59 PM PST by Tlaloc
The pre-existence of man is not a modern concept.
Proverbs 8:
22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Further, you might find the words from the Apocrypha Book of Enoch of interest to you.
“Enoch went to the Lord who taught him all about the creation and his works . He saw matter unorganized before the creation council in Heaven. He saw Satan aspire and get cast out to become the foundation of lower things, beyond which there is great darkness and nothing. And the Lord said ‘And now Enoch all that I have explained to thee and all thou has seen on Earth and all thou hast written in thy books .It is my wisdom that I have organized and made all these things and it was by my word that it was carried out,
..... And every thing found in the world has been before and has passed
before him and has been organized before him ...AII the creations Of the World have existed in each generation before they came to this world .All the souls of the children of men have been before they came down to the world formed before him in Heaven in the very likeness that they have in this world ...For all souls are prepared to eternity before the formation of the world .
And the Angel said to Enoch sit down and write All of the spirits of men and those who have not yet been born yet, the places which have been prepared for them . All things were prepared since before the foundation of the world” 2 Enoch 9:
“Enoch answered the people saying hear my children ,before anything was and before the whole creation took place, the Lord established the age of creation; and after that he made all of the creation both visible and invisible and after that he created man in his own image. He gave him eyes to see, ears to hear and a heart to think with and a mind to council. I swear to you my children that before man was in the womb of his mother we were prepared, each individual and a place for each spirit that each should sojourn here in his proper time, that man might be tested in the balance ...” 2 Enoch 17:
” Enoch went to the Lord who taught him all about creation and his works... He saw matter unorganized before the creation...the council in heaven... He saw Satan aspire and get cast out to become the foundation of lower things, beyond which there ii great darkness and nothing”
2 Enoch 11:
” Then the angel Braboil said: Sit down and write all the spirits of men, all those who have not been born yet, and the places which have been prepared for them. All these things were prepared since before the foundation of the world. And I wrote down all the affairs of men. Secrets of Enoch 10: (Vaillant)
I will share what I did on a previous thread of what the LDS Apostles stated clearly 7 years ago at the turn of the millennium on the role and doctrine of our Savior, Jesus Christ.
The Living Christ: The testimony of the Apostles of the LDS Church. January 2000
As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago, we offer our testimony of the reality of His matchless life and the infinite virtue of His great atoning sacrifice. None other has had so profound an influence upon all who have lived and will yet live upon the earth.
He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He “went about doing good” (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.
He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary’s cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.
We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.
He rose from the grave to “become the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His “other sheep” (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised “dispensation of the fulness of times” (Ephesians 1:10).
Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: “His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
“I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father” (D&C 110:3–4).
Of Him the Prophet also declared: “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).
We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—“built upon the foundation of … apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20).
We testify that He will someday return to earth. “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together” (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.
We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son.
A dishonest Mormon? What a shock. Their religion is a fraud, so one should expect their adherants to perpetuate the frauds; or maybe they are just ignorant about the truth of Mormonism.
dano1 is also pretending to not understand that Twain was firat and foremost, a humorist.
You said — “He asked a question. Its not like he said they believe it.”
But, they do believe it... LOL!!
Regards,
Star Traveler
If nothing else, Romney’s campaign is going to focus America on the theology of Mormonism and many will discover that it is a fraud. Ironically, many of the people who will realize the lies of Mormonism will be Mormons.
I would ask this introspective question, and then I’m out, for several days.
Did God create everything?
Did he create Satan? How?
Till we meet again!
Sevenbak,
You didn't deny anything. Instead you deflect and change the subject.
I guess this is how you are taught to deal with difficult issues, eh?
You said — “What a hateful and utterly stupid thing to say! Even I know enough about the Mormon religion to know that they do not believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers!”
Well, you’ve just shown that you don’t know as much as you thought you knew about the Mormon teachings and doctrines. LOL!
You better go back and study-up — again...
Regards,
Star Traveler
P.S. — This is one of the many, many reasons why Mormon teaching and doctrine is considered to be non-Christian cult teaching...
Outstanding response. I agree with everything you said.
Go back to post #83 which was made in response to a question concerning the Trinity and you will find a Biblically correct reply.
Our exchange continues through postings #104, #123 and #148. You will see where I used an admittedly weak answer, but the best available to at least begin to introduce an individual to the Bible.
I have employed this approach with mixed results (usually success if our conversation continues for some period of time) in the past when discussing the Christ revealed in the scripture with persons who have a incorrect and/or incomplete picture of Him through a false religion and thereby find the Trinity a stumbling point. The two most common examples of this are Muslims and Mormons.
I admit my analogy is imperfect, and that none is, but it is better than none, and you have to start somewhere.
Incidentally, you have presented an especially well reasoned and erudite response by Free Republic standards, which generally greatly exceeds those on most other political forums. I congratulate you and would love to learn more about your background.
[Hopefully, people can rise to a higher level and be respectful, understanding, and tolerant.]
I will not be respectful, understanding or tolerant of that which is untruthful, hurtful, superstitious or irrational. I will not be tolerant of that which is intolerable. If you wish to take offense at having the truth pointed out, that is your problem, not mine.
No, God created Lucifer, the most beautiful angel of all creation. Lucifer sinned and brought his own demise down around him. What does that have to do with your cult?
[it is my opinion that the anti literature is shallow, distorting, repetitive, and doesn’t compare to the extent, the depth, and the scholarship on the Mormon side.]
he said as he quotes absolute blue sky.
Come now BB, I’ve quoted everything under the sun to you apologists, and the standard reply is to whine that everything from the anti side is a lie. Besides, you are lost to reason, my reply was meant for someone who still had an outside view that is forming. You are a bubble-boy who will never accept anything from outside the mothership.
I will not be respectful, understanding or tolerant of that which is untruthful, hurtful, superstitious or irrational. I will not be tolerant of that which is intolerable. If you wish to take offense at having the truth pointed out, that is your problem, not mine.
[Why don’t you show us a good book on Mormon Doctrine written by a Mormon Apostle or Prophet that will clear up all these issues about what you guys believe or don’t believe. It seems that everytime one of your apostles writes a book, it gets pulled from the shelves by the same guys who ordered it published.]
Cha-Ching! :)
Google his son David Huckabe along with animal cruelty, guns, airport. David Huckabee tried to carry a gun on an airplane this past spring. The animal cruelty (killing dogs) happened in 1998.
“Then do your deed and may God judge you accordingly. “
I am God, and this is MY PLANET!
LOL.
The epitome of your ignorance and disrespect is your repeated reference to Mormon garments. I have explained how all religions use symbols and articles of clothing to remind them of sacred covenants with God. That is not superstition or harm to others. I think it is admirable that Mormons prefer to keep that private. As long as they prefer to keep that private, it is none of your business. The fact that you can mock others on such things tells the world about you, and it is not pretty.
Astounding video, thanks.
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