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No Big Bang? Endless Universe Made Possible by New Model
Physorg.com ^ | January 30, 2007 | University of North Carolina

Posted on 02/03/2007 7:49:37 AM PST by aculeus

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To: RightWhale

"... a lot of math doesn't describe anything in physics." Yet, my brainy friend, yet.


121 posted on 02/03/2007 1:02:41 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

That was more or less said by Albert Einstein. People used to walk into his Princeton office with yet another solution to his relativity formulation and Albert would say, yes, that is a mathematical solution, but it is not possible in physics. Maybe some day.


122 posted on 02/03/2007 1:06:15 PM PST by RightWhale (300 miles north of Big Wild Life)
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To: aculeus
"The idea of coming back empty is the most important ingredient of this new cyclic model."

I don't get it. Where does all the matter come from? Each of these little patches is empty, collapses for some reason, then expands again as a new universe containing enough matter to form hundreds of billions of galaxies. Empty space collapses. Space filled with bazillions of gravitating objects expands. Obviously, I'm missing something obvious! :-(

123 posted on 02/03/2007 1:07:35 PM PST by LibWhacker
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To: aculeus

Do they know about paved roads down there in North Carolina?


124 posted on 02/03/2007 1:09:55 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: LibWhacker
Where does all the matter come from?

We see only what we imagine, and most of what we imagine we have never seen. Nobody has ever seen an electron, even though we imagine electrons as energetically as we can. So, all what matter?

125 posted on 02/03/2007 1:11:58 PM PST by RightWhale (300 miles north of Big Wild Life)
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To: nmh

Why is this denying G-d? This simply explains how the Universe was created or acts. It has nothing to do why or how...


126 posted on 02/03/2007 1:14:40 PM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: RightWhale

You tongue-in-cheek devil, you, lol! We're made up of matter. We're not made up of nothingness. How can nothingness imagine somethingness?


127 posted on 02/03/2007 1:18:42 PM PST by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker
Where does all matter come from? The most simple form, or illustration, would be through the singularium.

All matter is believed to come from one dense group or pre-matter in the beginning. (Or Singularium)

One might believe that this is relative to an original creation, that matter came from a source from some where outside of the Universal plane we call space. In essence, God. There are strong indications that there is another dimension that we can not see from ours. Personally, I believe this is where God exists. All that is in the Universe came from that place.

Gravity, which is strongly related to the Singularity is the force that holds our Universe together. All Galaxies cannot hold their shape or objects in Space would all fly off in chaos with out the Singularity holding it together. This IS the Miracle of creation.

Black Holes are individual examples of the Singularity. At the center of each Galaxy is believed to be a Black Hole. This is why all galaxies have the characteristic pinwheel shape and they rotate around their Black Hole. Black Holes draw everything into them self because of their great density, or mass. This all ties into the logical science of Physics and is strongly supported by actual evidence that it exists.
128 posted on 02/03/2007 1:35:44 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (This tagline has been forbidden.)
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To: spanalot

You make an excellent point. I have always believed that there is not, nor can there ever be, a contradiction between science and God. The same God who wrote the Ten Commandments is the same God who designed the DNA molecule. Anything that appears to be a contradiction between science and God is because of limitations in our knowledge and understanding.


129 posted on 02/03/2007 2:03:20 PM PST by ops33 (Retired USAF Senior Master Sergeant)
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To: SteamShovel
My thoughts exactly! I personally accept that GOD created the heavens and the universe. But there is nothing wrong with trying to figure out how it works.

I agree, and furthermore I have always favored the idea that the universe may collapse on itself after time and then re-explode. You still need God to explain the bigger picture though.

130 posted on 02/03/2007 2:07:06 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
"How about that, laughing boy?"

Well son, your haughty attitude, validates my point.

Failing to give God the credit and acknowledging it is His laws you seek to understand explains where you are truly coming from.

Isn't it a pity that what Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, hoped for NEVER materialized. The Judeo Christian God has never been shunned, ridiculed and blasphemed more than in the age we live in today.
131 posted on 02/03/2007 2:18:31 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP; RightWhale

All but the 'dense group of pre-matter' makes sense. Oh, and there is nothing 'at the center' of a black hole, all matter 'in' a black hole is trapped just inside the Schwartchild Radius. How can this be?... Matter is space, time, and energy. As matter 'falls into a black hole' the space and time are 'dissociated' from their stable form in matter, back into the compoennt dimensional characteristics, and the energy 'pops' back into the 'void' where virtual particles arise and dissipate. [Like my different paradigm?]


132 posted on 02/03/2007 2:20:02 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Celtjew Libertarian

BTW, why would a Jew, if you are one, ever want to identify with a LIBERALtarian? You don't have to answer that ... you may want to think about it instead. YOU should have NOTHING in common with heathen LIBERALtarians.


133 posted on 02/03/2007 2:20:17 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: aculeus

the dark energy density is measured in hillaries, for that's what powers her/it. the equation of state [criminal] can be deduced from there, as well.


134 posted on 02/03/2007 2:29:23 PM PST by GSlob
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To: jwalsh07
"Nothing from nothing leaves nothing......"
Actually, nothing is something. how many empty suits and nonentities have become politicians, for example?
135 posted on 02/03/2007 2:32:02 PM PST by GSlob
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To: aculeus
Also key to Frampton and Baum's model is an assumption about dark energy's equation of state -- the mathematical description of its pressure and density. Frampton and Baum assume dark energy's equation of state is always less than -1. This distinguishes their work from a similar cyclic model proposed in 2002 by physicists Paul Steinhardt and Neil Turok, who assumed the equation of state is never less than -1.

To become rich, first you start out with a billion dollars....

Assumptions, aren't they nice!

136 posted on 02/03/2007 2:42:08 PM PST by AndrewC (Duckpond, LLD, JSD (all honorary))
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To: nmh
Failing to give God the credit and acknowledging it is His laws you seek to understand explains where you are truly coming from.

Isn't it a pity that what Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, hoped for NEVER materialized. The Judeo Christian God has never been shunned, ridiculed and blasphemed more than in the age we live in today.

What do you mean it never materialized. There are a lot of people who believe in both evolution and God and see no contradiction.

In fact Rabbi Hirsch makes a key point. From a single organism and a single law comes all life, including us. To my way of thinking that is an incredibly elegant and beautiful system

The way you see God's design, I see as clumsy and intelligent. The work of a duffer. In the light of what science has shown us, I find Creationism to be disrespectful of God's greatness.

137 posted on 02/03/2007 2:48:22 PM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: ops33
You make an excellent point. I have always believed that there is not, nor can there ever be, a contradiction between science and God. The same God who wrote the Ten Commandments is the same God who designed the DNA molecule. Anything that appears to be a contradiction between science and God is because of limitations in our knowledge and understanding.

This statement concurs with similar statements by Maimonides and St Thomas. You are in very good company.

138 posted on 02/03/2007 2:55:18 PM PST by jwalsh07 (Duncan Hunter for President)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Where did you dig this up from, because this is so overly simplistic that it makes no sense. Space itself is defined by the universe. The "edge" of the universe is an edge defined by time and not an edge like you are thinking of that physically exists in 3-D space. Outside of the universe there is no defined space to expand into, so there is no up, down, left, right, x, y, z, etc. The expansion is all internal within the universe. It can't expand beyond itself. You shouldn't think of multiple universes as popping up independently in space because space is defined by and comes from within the universe and does not exist separate from the universe.


139 posted on 02/03/2007 3:00:06 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: nmh
BTW, why would a Jew, if you are one, ever want to identify with a LIBERALtarian? You don't have to answer that ... you may want to think about it instead. YOU should have NOTHING in common with heathen LIBERALtarians.

In the broad way, freedom of conscience. How can prayers to and praise of God be considered true, if they are compelled? How can the following of God's laws and commands mean anything if they are compelled. And it is arrogant to assume that our understanding of God and the Bible is so perfect to use that as the final arbiter of what the law should be.

Indeed, the story of Ruth is key to my outlook. According to Deuteronomy 23:3, "No Ammonites or Moabites, or any of their descendants for ten generations, may be included in the assembly of the LORD." Yet Ruth was born a Moabite and King David was her great-grandson. Solomon, her great-great-grandson built the first Temple. (Even if we say Ruth wasn't really a Moabite, because she converted -- which some have tried to respond with -- her parents were Moabites. Which still doesn't take Solomon or David outside the 10 generation bar.)

Either the Book of Ruth is untrue, Deuteronomy has been altered somewhere along the line, God makes specific exceptions that he does not announce, or our understanding is imperfect. We cannot base our laws on the Bible, for we cannot be certain what God intends.

Yes, there need to be laws to prevent force and fraud -- which are broadly speaking other forums of compulsion. But adults must be free to act as they will, as long as they don't compel others. Otherwise, our imperfect understanding may compel someone to act against what God desires.

140 posted on 02/03/2007 3:03:12 PM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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