Posted on 09/23/2006 10:33:58 AM PDT by Torie
The fact that the Low Germanic dialects that developed into English became the common language of what would become England is in itself evidence of the scale of the migration. Contrast the Anglo-Saxon invasion of England with those of other Germanic tribes during the era of the collapse of the Roman Empire, and you will notice the other tribes, such as the Franks, the Visigoths, the Lombards, the Vandals, etc., adopted the native languages of the former Roman provinces they conquered. The descendants of the barbarians became the aristocracy in the areas that would become France, Spain, and northern Italy. To this day, blondness is more prevalent in aristocratic Spanish and Italian families than in the population as a whole.
Both Anglo-Saxon and Welsh chronicles from the 5th and 6th Centuries, as well as those from continental Europe, attest to the mass killing of native Britons, or their flight to exile in Wales, Cornwall, Brittany, Cumberland, Scotland, and Ireland. Especially in eastern England, what happened was not unlike what whites did to the American Indians. No doubt Celts survived in western England, but they were probably of the peasant class and adopted into the Anglo-Saxon culture, much like many Indians in the Southern states who were not exiled in the Trail of Tears or killed in warfare eventually were absorbed culturally and relationally into Anglo-Southern culture, especially in Appalachia. Not only isolated groups like the Melungeons, but many so-called hillbillies have some Cherokee or Creek ancestry.
The dominance of Anglo-Saxon language and culture in the future England, the records from the era, and the analogy with 18th and 19th Century America indicate that the invasions of England from northwest Germany and adjacent areas of the Netherlands and Denmark in the 5th and 6th Centuries AD dramatically transformed the racial and cultural makeup of the future England.
Thank you very much!
Language is different from genes. Indeed, English is about 30% French or close to it, with a lot of synonyms or near synonyms because we have both the teutonic and French words, such as pig and pork, fat and portly/rotund, hill and mountain, and so on. In the law, French is rather dominant, with sometimes two French words, such as guaranty (Norman), and guarantee (Parisian).
Arthur: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, king of the Britons. Whose
castle is that?
Woman: King of the 'oo?
Arthur: King of the Britons.
Woman: 'Oo are the Britons?
Arthur: Well we all are! We are all Britons! And I am your king.
Woman: I didn't know we 'ad a king! I thought we were autonomous collective.
Man: (mad) You're fooling yourself! We're living in a dictatorship! A
self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
Woman: There you go, bringing class into it again...
Man: That's what it's all about! If only people would--
Arthur: Please, *please*, good people, I am in haste! WHO lives in that
castle?
Woman: No one lives there.
Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Woman: We don't have a lord!
Arthur: (spurised) What??
Man: I *told* you! We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune! We're taking
turns to act as a sort of executive-officer-for-the-week--
Arthur: (uninterested) Yes...
Man: But all the decisions *of* that officer 'ave to be ratified at a
special bi-weekly meeting--
Arthur: (perturbed) Yes I see!
Man: By a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs--
Arthur: (mad) Be quiet!
Man: But by a two-thirds majority, in the case of more major--
Arthur: (very angry) BE QUIET! I *order* you to be quiet!
Woman: "Order", eh, 'oo does 'e think 'e is?
Arthur: I am your king!
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you!
Arthur: You don't vote for kings!
Woman: Well 'ow'd you become king then?
(holy music up)
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake-- her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite,
held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by
divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why
I am your king!
Man: (laughingly) Listen: Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some... farcical
aquatic ceremony!
Arthur: (yelling) BE QUIET!
Man: You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some
watery tart threw a sword at you!!
Arthur: (coming forward and grabbing the man) Shut *UP*!
Man: I mean, if I went 'round, saying I was an emperor, just because some
moistened bink had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Arthur: (throwing the man around) Shut up, will you, SHUT UP!
Man: Aha! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: SHUT UP!
Man: (yelling to all the other workers) Come and see the violence inherent
in the system! HELP, HELP, I'M BEING REPRESSED!
Arthur: (letting go and walking away) Bloody PEASANT!
Man: Oh, what a giveaway! Did'j'hear that, did'j'hear that, eh? That's
what I'm all about! Did you see 'im repressing me? You saw it,
didn't you?!
Sorry, but every time I hear a discussion on who is and is not a Briton, I think of Monty Python.....
Genealogy bump
The genetic information regarding the differences between the population of England and those of the Celtic countries is contradictory. The study you cited says that the English are genetically similar to the Celts, but another, which I cited, indicates a clear similarity between the ancestry of Englishmen and that of part of the Netherlands (probably Frisia) from which the ancestors of the English came, and a marked difference in the genetic makeup of Englishmen and Welshmen.
I suspect a comparison between matrilineal and patrilineal contributions to the genetic makeup would help reconcile the differences. In the United States, Indian contributions to family lines are usually on the female side, as a male Anglo-American settler living near lands still held by them might marry an Indian woman. Many Indian men who did not die in battle unfortunately succumbed to alcoholism.
Let's not quibble about 'oo is 'oo, and 'oo did what to 'oom.
LOL!
Well this is a Y chromosome study, so that means the Celts raped the Frisian women. Something is wrong with the picture. Frisian is by the way, the closest language to English. If you listen to it, you think you should understand it, because the cadences and structure is the same. The only problem is that you can't, except for the odd word. :)
They are the ones who constructed all the megaliths - the Celts didn't do sh1t! ;)
All of the above, and more besides, same as me. Probably even Africans from the Roman regiments that we know garrisoned Hadrian's Wall nearly 2000 years ago.
==>All of the above
That is the truth!
Of all the Germanic languages, Frisian is the one that is most similar to English. English speakers can often understand simple Frisian sentences, and they ours.
After descending on Eire from heaven in a cloud of mist, I'd imagine the megaliths were rather anticlimactic for the Tuatha Dé Danann, lol. This whole banishing to the underworld thing makes me think more along the lines of Newgrange, or maybe the Toothills or Barrows of England, though.
Perhaps, I was just pointing out the fact most megaliths here are pre-Celtic.. like the ogham stones for example.
Fomorians
by Micha F. Lindemans
In Irish-Celtic mythology, the Fomorians are a race of demonic giants, ancient occupants of Ireland (or sometimes mentioned as a mythical, prehistoric people who raided and pillaged Ireland from the sea).
The first to invade Ireland were the Partholons, but after many battles the Fomorians afflicted them all with plague. After them came the Nemeds, who in their very first battle were defeated and enslaved. The third wave of invaders, the Firbolgs, were more successful and they subdued the Fomorians and managed to live peacefully with them.
After a period of peace, the Tuatha Dé Danann, the Irish race of gods, arrived. They conquered the Firbolgs, but dealt more subtly with the Fomorians, although they destroyed their hegemony over Ireland for good in the second battle of Mag Tuireadh. The Fomorians were given the province of Connacht, and were even allowed to marry some of the Tuatha Dé. The king of the Fomorians is the one-eyed Balor. Other prominent members are: Bres, Eriu, and Tethra.
The Fomorians are sometimes mythologically associated with the powers of nature which challenge man: fog, storm, winter, disease, crop-blight. The name comes from fomó, "giant", "pirate".
(Some anthropologists think the Fomorians were a Black tribe)
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