Army dismisses gay soldier 'outed' by e-mail

AP ^ | 7/27/6 | DUNCAN MANSFIELD

[SmithL]

JOHNSON CITY, Tenn. (AP) - A decorated sergeant and Arabic language specialist was dismissed from the U.S. Army under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, though he says he never admitted being gay and his accuser was never identified.

Bleu Copas, 30, told The Associated Press he is gay, but said he was "outed" by a stream of anonymous e-mails to his superiors in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, N.C.

"I knew the policy going in," Copas said in an interview on the campus of East Tennessee State University, where he is pursuing a master's degree in counseling and working as a student adviser. "I knew it was going to be difficult."

An eight-month Army investigation culminated in Copas' honorable discharge on Jan. 30 _ less than four years after he enlisted, he said, out of a post-Sept. 11 sense of duty to his country.

Copas now carries the discharge papers, which mention his awards and citations, so he can document his military service for prospective employers. But the papers also give the reason for his dismissal.

He plans to appeal to the Army Board for Correction of Military Records.

The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, established in 1993, prohibits the military from inquiring about the sex lives of service members, but requires discharges of those who openly acknowledge being gay.

The policy is becoming "a very effective weapon of vengeance in the armed forces" said Steve Ralls, a spokesman for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, a Washington-based watchdog organization that counseled Copas and is working to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

Copas said he was never open about his sexuality in the military and suspects his accuser was someone he mistakenly befriended and apparently slighted.

More than 11,000 service members have been dismissed under the policy, including 726 last year _ an 11 percent jump from 2004 and the first increase since 2001.

That's less than a half-percent of the more than 2 million soldiers, sailors and Marines dismissed for all reasons since 1993, according to the General Accountability Office.

But the GAO also noted that nearly 800 dismissed gay or lesbian service members had critical abilities, including 300 with important language skills. Fifty-five were proficient in Arabic, including Copas, a graduate of the Defense Language Institute in California.

Discharging and replacing them has cost the Pentagon nearly $369 million, according to the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military at the University of California, Santa Barbara.

Lt. Col. James Zellmer, Copas' commanding officer in the 313th military intelligence battalion, told the AP that "the evidence clearly indicated that Sgt. Copas had engaged in homosexual acts."

While investigators were never able to determine who the accuser was, "in the end, the nature and the volume of the evidence and Sgt. Copas's own sworn statement led me to discharge him," Zellmer said.

Military investigators wrote that Copas "engaged in at least three homosexual relationships, and is dealing with at least two jealous lovers, either of whom could be the anonymous source providing this information."

Shortly after Copas was appointed to the 82nd Airborne's highly visible All-American Chorus last May, the first e-mail came to the chorus director.

"The director brought everyone into the hallway and told us about this e-mail they had just received and blatantly asked, 'Which one of you are gay?'" Copas said.

Copas later complained to the director and his platoon sergeant, saying the questions violated "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

"They said they would watch it in the future," Copas said. "And they said, even specifically then, 'Well, you are not gay are you?' And I said, 'no.'"

The accuser, who signed his e-mails "John Smith" or "ftbraggman," pressed Copas' superiors to take action against him or "I will inform your entire battalion of the information that I gave you."

On Dec. 2, investigators formally interviewed Copas and asked if he understood the military's policy on homosexuals, if he had any close acquaintances who were gay, and if he was involved in community theater. He answered affirmatively.

But Copas declined to answer when they asked, "Have you ever engaged in homosexual activity or conduct?" He refused to answer 19 of 47 questions before he asked for a lawyer and the interrogation stopped.

Copas said he accepted the honorable discharge to end the ordeal, to avoid lying about his sexuality and risking a perjury charge, and to keep friends from being targeted.

"It is unfair. It is unjust," he said. "Even with the policy we have, it should never have happened."

[LowOiL]

I'm proud to be Orthodox and we do not judge people.

Liar, you have done nothing but wrongfully judged those on this thread that dared judge rightly.

The notion that judgment is wrong is a ludicrous one. Should child-molesters escape condemnation? Should rapists be free from criticism? Should society refrain from judging those arrested for murder? Should we call evil good? Or would that be a judgment too?

A lie paralyzed the Church. To abhor evil, someone must first judge evil. God instructs men against "hypocrisy" commanding them to "abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9). Thus, unable to judge, and unaccustomed to abhorrence, Christians en masse become hypocrites when they obey the Hypocrites Golden Rule. For "judge not" (Mat. 7:1-5) is simply a hypocrites application of do unto others as you would have them do unto you (Mat. 7:12). "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged" (Mat. 7:2). Judge others as you would have them do unto you inverted is Judge not if you do not want to be judged. Therefore the hypocrite does not judge. As Jesus said, "Judge not… you hypocrite" (Mat. 7:1, 5 KJV; Ezek. 16:52).

Christ kept this theme throughout His ministry. "Hypocrites," Jesus said, "why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right?" (Luke 12:56-57). Still, His own followers have mostly ignored the Lord’s harsh rebuke: "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye" (Mat. 7:5). "Judge Not" is the Hypocritical Oath.

"Judge Not" is hypocrite haven.

[scripter]

Looking at CDC's numbers, there's a significant number of HIV cases that aren't caused by homosexual contact

What CDC report are you looking at? I track the CDC yearly reports and the 2004 report states most cases are caused from homosexual behavior: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/STATS/2004SurveillanceReport.pdf. Look at pages 10-38.

The 2005 report is due out anytime now.

[Lucky Dog]

Looking at CDC's numbers, there's a significant number of HIV cases that aren't caused by homosexual contact –

Well, since you brought it up, let us, in deed, look at the numbers:

Death and disease accompany promiscuous and unsanitary sexual activity. 70%25 to 78%x,13 of gays reported having had a sexually transmitted disease. The proportion with intestinal parasites (worms, flukes, amoeba) ranged from 25%18 to 39%19 to 59%.20 As of 1992, 83% of U.S. AIDS in whites had occurred in gays.21 [emphasis added] The Seattle sexual diary study3? reported that gays had, on a yearly average:

1. fellated 108 men and swallowed semen from 48;
2. exchanged saliva with 96;
3. experienced 68 penile penetrations of the anus; and
4. ingested fecal material from 19.
No wonder 10% came down with hepatitis B and 7% contracted hepatitis A during the 6-month study.

From 1981 through 1999, there were 751,965 cumulative reported cases of AIDS in the U.S. At least 56 percent of the AIDS diagnoses occurred in gay or bisexual men. In other words, two percent of the population had at least 56 percent of those reported AIDS diagnoses. The second largest group was IV drug users. What about heterosexual sex? In the U.S., persons who have been infected with HIV through heterosexual contact have usually had vaginal or anal intercourse with someone in one of the high-risk categories -- a bisexual male or someone who is an IV drug user. [13]

Beyond all of the continual testing expense, I assume (perhaps, incorrectly) that you are aware that these discharged veterans would all be eligible for unlimited treatment through the VA, costing the taxpayers billions. From a common sense standpoint, this fact alone makes it imperative to keep the queers out of the military as much as is possible.

…and since we already know, from the sheer fact that we're talking about this, that "don't ask don't tell" doesn't keep gays from joining the military, why not play it safe and eliminate the prohibition on sodomy and instead discharge those with the virus, of all genders and orientations?

The number cited in the preceding paragraphs, alone, make your argument specious. However, there is still the issue of “good order and discipline” which you are studiously avoiding. Are you afraid to address that issue?

[kenboy]

I think we're looking at the same numbers, but focusing on different things.

33% of male cases and 46% of all cases are from causes other than male-male sex. (Since 0% of the female cases are from male-male sex, the second number is probably ignorable -- but that's a solid third of cases among men not resulting from male-male sex.) Granted, many are from IV drug use, and I hope there's not much of that in the military -- but again, that's 10% of male cases being caused by something other than gay sex or drugs -- and a lot of the female cases -- and since we can't trust people to tell us if they're gay, and since removing all the gays who get caught would STILL leave us with HIV cases among the remaining soldiers, why not just spend the resources on testing, instead of investigating consensual sex?

[kenboy]

However, there is still the issue of “good order and discipline” which you are studiously avoiding. Are you afraid to address that issue?

I've addressed it numerous times, but this time, I'll put it to you directly:

To maintain "good order and discipline," do you believe that heterosexual soldiers who admit to having engaged in oral or anal sex with a member of the opposite sex, including, if they are married, their own wives, should be brought up on charges stemming from an Article 125 violation?

If not, why not? How is a straight soldier engaging in a form of sexual contact that is clearly against regulations according to Article 125 any less a breach of good order and discipline?

[Lucky Dog]

I've addressed it numerous times, but this time, I'll put it to you directly:

I beg to differ with your assessment.

To maintain "good order and discipline," do you believe that heterosexual soldiers who admit to having engaged in oral or anal sex with a member of the opposite sex, including, if they are married, their own wives, should be brought up on charges stemming from an Article 125 violation?

Yes, conditional on Article 32 protections being observed and that a solid case for the prosecution can be established. As an item of interest, I hold the same opinion for queers charged under this article.

If not, why not? How is a straight soldier engaging in a form of sexual contact that is clearly against regulations according to Article 125 any less a breach of good order and discipline?

It is no less a breach of good order and discipline and subject to the same sanctions if a solid case can be established.

Now, perhaps, you would care to explain how you deem your questions addressing the “good order and discipline” issue that I challenged you to expound upon.

[ma bell]

I am all for many religious ideologues but one I do have issues with are "born-agains" such as you. Many of you have no room to talk as you are mainly talk and revisit "your transgressions" that made you so mad at your weakness/s that you wanted to make yourself feel good again by claiming Christ in your life.

Only a small percentage are legitimate and don't try to interpret it/twist it into these new-religions that pop up everywhere.

Is that what you are, in a newly created religion that pop up claiming to be the true religion?

I don't argue what is in the bible as I don't "know it" like many do. I do argue the hypocrasy that many of you fail at.

Would you go to war for your religion, whatever it might be? Will you do that?

[ma bell]

oh to reply a second time, I've already went up against islam and this is my second go around. All to battle and fight for Orthodoxy and stop dead in its tracks, Islam.

What have you done for God in that sense besides "sitting fat" as you describe in your profile. Are you an armchair soldier wannabe? All talk, no walk huhh? I'll dig so far reaching into you and others that just "judged" me for that BS you spewed forth about how great Christ is. God is someone you answer to, yes. I do pray that I return from my missions each day as I run the gauntlet daily.

The original poster ridicules the grunts for bemoaning his attitudes as many are greater servants to God then he will ever be. What have you all done to defend God as we are in the midst of a modern day Crusade against Islam. Get a grip, oil.

[FloridianBushFan]

Sounds like you are either have the mind of a 4 year old or are sick in the head. ONly people I know who say peepee are little boys or guys who like little boys

[TheGunny]

Sounds like you are either have the mind of a 4 year old or are sick in the head. ONly people I know who say peepee are little boys or guys who like little boys

Um...yeah (cuckoo birds sounding) Well its on to adult conversation and real world security ops (where discipline matters). Buh bye now (wave).

[scripter]

The issue is the majority of HIV cases are found in homosexual men. HIV discriminates against homosexual men and HIV isn't the only health related issue. Syphilis, gonorrhea, rare chlamydia, new STDs, early death and more are all part of the homosexual identity:

Rising Syphilis Rate Linked to Gay Men
Gays faced with new STD strains
Drug-proof gonorrhea rises in homosexuals
Rare Chlamydia Strain Infecting Gay Men
Yet Another Study Confirms Gay Life Expectancy 20 Years Shorter

The same-sex attraction issue is huge. Men and women don't shower together for obvious reasons and the same is true for those with same-sex attraction. That is, homosexuals should not shower with heterosexuals.

[scripter]

...discharged veterans would all be eligible for unlimited treatment through the VA, costing the taxpayers billions.

That's a very good point, and one I hadn't yet considered.

[Lucky Dog]

There are numerous other ramifications. However, we'll let those wait for discussion after kenboy answers the more obvious issue.

[LowOiL]

I am all for many religious ideologues but one I do have issues with are "born-agains" such as you. Many of you have no room to talk as you are mainly talk and revisit "your transgressions" that made you so mad at your weakness/s that you wanted to make yourself feel good again by claiming Christ in your life.

Glad to see you dropped you lying "we don't judge" attitude you were hiding behind while taking pop shots you couldn't back up. Now we can get down to business.

Only a small percentage are legitimate and don't try to interpret it/twist it into these new-religions that pop up everywhere.

That is why I took it back to the word.. something you could only hint at (and when you did, you got it shown where you were wrong when you paraphrased the "judge not" shill). The only true statement I have heard from you is that "we all sin".

Is that what you are, in a newly created religion that pop up claiming to be the true religion?

If you have a problem with Jesus's words, take it up with him. You are the one that has NOT once quoted anything. Wonder why, perhaps it is like you readily admit, you are not armed with the sword of the word ( or in your words "I don't know it"). Funny you sure had no problem talking like you did know it and only made yourself look... well... you guess.

Would you go to war for your religion, whatever it might be? Will you do that?

You are durn right I would... I am fighting right now to correct someone that likes to make it up as he goes. Would I pick up arms and fight, you durn right I would, and I wouldn't require a paycheck to do it either if it came down to it. Not saying those that work to defend our nation are wrong for taking a paycheck in a voluntary system, quite the opposite you should put your family's needs above most everything, but just saying our freedoms to worship Christ are worth fighting for above even money.

I do have issues with are "born-agains" such as you.

I have issues with people that misquote the Bible truths, so that makes up even. ... If you have issues with me, maybe it is because Jesus taught that ‘if they hated Me, they will hate you’" (see John 15:18-19; 17:14; Mat. 10:22; Luke 21:17). Simply an occapational hazzard I guess. No problem

Many of you have no room to talk as you are mainly talk and revisit "your transgressions" that made you so mad at your weakness/s that you wanted to make yourself feel good again by claiming Christ in your life.

Again, if you have a problem with Jesus, take it up with Him. I will not deny Him.. I am glad He is God Almighty and can wipe my filthy rag slate clean. But I will not attempt to change His word to justify sin for you or anyone else to not feel uncomfortable.

I've already went up against islam and this is my second go around. All to battle and fight for Orthodoxy and stop dead in its tracks, Islam.

I am proud you have/continue to serve this nation. I have supported our men and women in combat as long as I can remember. But don't expect me to give you a free ride when you misquote the Bible on it's meaning of moral issues.

What have you done for God in that sense besides "sitting fat" as you describe in your profile.

LOL, "sitting fat" ... again glad you have lost your "judge not" mentality. BTW.. you put up quotes, as if that was word for word from my profile, care to explain why you did that when it is your quote and not mine? I obviously have done something to make you burn enough to check my profile, but didn't think you would misquote it/me.

Are you an armchair soldier wannabe? All talk, no walk huhh.

Ahh, the last resort... the I am superior to you and don't you know it because of military service argument.... it does buy you some lead-way and is valid IMHO in some aspects.. but in this case, where the central issue is a debate over homosexuals in the army and specifically how that fits in context Biblically, the later you started via using your "not Christian" before I even entered the discussion. But are you going to use that for all arguments in the future where you can't win with facts, sorta a crutch.

Just now (not 10 minutes ago) an Air Force reservist came by, my wife does sewing projects for our soldiers for free (minus material cost).. She sewed a Velcro patch on where he could update his patch without buying a new uniform. It wasn't much, but it was free ($5.00 materials). We pray for our soldiers every day and ask God to protect them (His will be done), I am a canteen member and we play request for our soldiers every weekend.

This is my great uncle.

He also was a Christian... did he die so you could tell his family that the first amendment didn't apply to them? His other younger brother, (not my grandfather who had 3 children, including my mother was not drafted) was also drafted and lived through the war (photographer).. After the war in which Millard died, his younger brother returned. He took care of Millard's widow and eventually asked grandmother if it was OK to marry her. Grandmother got out the Bible and said "yes, it is OK". They knew where to find the truth, the same place you refuse to go when debating us, all while using the term "not Christian".

My uncle Lowry (Vietnam 4 years) and I keep pretty close contact with each other. Don't bother asking him what he thinks of gays in the military, he will tell ya.

Personally, I do wish I had my act more together at a younger age. I wasted a lot of my early 20's and perhaps the military would of been good for me. But then again, God had a plan for me and it has worked out quite well. I'll dig so far reaching into you and others that just "judged" me for that BS you spewed forth about how great Christ is.

How many times will you deny Him today. Three times before the cock crows? I once was there too, done that, been there.

God is someone you answer to, yes. I do pray that I return from my missions each day as I run the gauntlet daily.

I do also, every single day sir. My five y/o is fond of saying in his prayers (we do occasionally allow the children to lead prayers) , "protect the good guys, and help change the bad guys to good guys".

The original poster ridicules the grunts for bemoaning his attitudes as many are greater servants to God then he will ever be.

I will let the original poster answer it if he so pleases. I must admit I don't quite understand you statement, thus will wait for clarification before commenting.

What have you all done to defend God as we are in the midst of a modern day Crusade against Islam.

I have already answered your "your not worthy" part earlier. I am very proud of you and our men/women on the front lines also mentioned earlier. I believe in the right to disagree and to discuss issues of worth in a open forum. God needs no defense, per say, but just keeping the word clear from misquotation is my part of fighting the good battle.

I just disagree that homosexuals should be in our armed services. I have backed upped my reasoning via scripture when presented with "your not Christian" arguments (among others weaker arguments). Be glad to continue this discussion at your leisure via this forum or via FReepmail. I might even learn something hopefully.

Goodday sir.

LowOiL

[ma bell]

Amazing you spent hours typing a post all for me, oil. I never dropped "judging" when it never occured. Your hot air does not mean squat when you write that you would defend Christianity...that is hilarious as i've heard many times over when people say things like that. They have a streak of yellow cowardice in them. Only the 'net makes the brave like you are.

Don't try using family members prior servicetime as a cop-out to not have ever served.

Besides, AF is not a "real, actual" military branch. Ever see them in action here in Iraq? They are laughing stocks where I am. AF Reservists? Oh my gosh, even worse!

I personally do not care if you can type out of the bible, that is just great hotshot. Can you preserve christianity by taking someones life (islamic terrorist for example) that wants to kill you for practicing christianity and propogating it to others? I don't think so, mac.

I've gone through the bible and read good portions of it but I don't memorize it nor write down scriptures. I am sure of and confidant of myself that my past transgressions/sins that I confess to God will all be forgiven.

By the way, I ride from one end of the former Yugoslavia (Croatia-Bosna-Serbia/Macedonia border) which covers over about 900 miles in 8 days or so to raise money for the Monastery in Kosovo for the Serbian Church. I've doing that since 2003 (except this year due to Iraq). So, I put my talk into action.

So,what do you do besides "type" your actions? Oh, did I mention that I'll be riding across the states too in a further attempt to raise money and publicity? Also, that muslims have attempted to do bad things to me while on the ride in southern Serbia and while inside of Kosovo? I'm not even including physical harm threats over the phone, emails etc... whewwwww! I can go on and on and on...

I'd put this up on my website but the service here is not "allowing' my file uploads and will have to do it when I'm on leave in over a month.

[LowOiL]

http://www.snd-us.com/history/savich_kosovo-origins.htm

[kenboy]

Sorry, I think the whole "good order and discipline" thing is a ruse.

If ignoring orders about sexual behavior was actually detrimental to good order and discipline, the tens of thousands of straight soldiers who are engaging in uninvestigated and unprosecuted oral and anal sex would clearly be creating a massive problem in the ranks. I'm glad you're willing to see those straight soldiers investigated and discharged, no matter what the cost to our ability to fight wars, but I respectfully submit we'd be much better off offically allowing all our soldiers, regardless of orientation, the privacy to have whatever sort of sex they want, provided it's in private and with consenting adults.

[Lucky Dog]

Sorry, I think the whole "good order and discipline" thing is a ruse.

Opinions without any bases in experience, fact or logic are worthless. You have failed to present any bases for you opinions which I hold to be error based upon my knowledge, direct experience and that of many others. If you wish to prove my assertion wrong, you must submit convincing evidence and irrefutable logic. To date, you have not done so.

In contrast to your unsupported opinions, I have cited relevant portions of the UCMJ on this thread along with statistics that back my opinions. It is not too much to ask you to do the same.

If ignoring orders about sexual behavior was actually detrimental to good order and discipline, the tens of thousands of straight soldiers who are engaging in uninvestigated and unprosecuted oral and anal sex would clearly be creating a massive problem in the ranks.

Cite your proof that tens of thousands of straight soldiers … are engaging in uninvestigated and unprosecuted oral and anal sex. If you have none, then your point is specious and should be ignored.

I'm glad you're willing to see those straight soldiers investigated and discharged, no matter what the cost to our ability to fight wars…

Thank you for the compliment on my consistency with the law. Nonetheless, I must ask how many years of military experience to you base this assessment on? Exactly what is the cost to our ability to fight wars and how do you calculate it?

… I respectfully submit we'd be much better off offically allowing all our soldiers, regardless of orientation, the privacy to have whatever sort of sex they want, provided it's in private and with consenting adults.

Your respectful submission has been noted and, after due consideration, disregarded as groundless. In fact, it is countered by the thoughtful deliberations of more than 400 members of Congress, thousands of commanders in decades of experience and innumerable citizens of the US. Consequently, I equally respectfully submit that you abandon your ill-informed and poorly considered opinion in favor of one based upon fact, logic and the experience of those better positioned to make such judgements than you.

[kenboy]

Sorry, you're right. I pulled "tens of thousands" out of thin air. Now that I've googled for some numbers, I think I have to say "easily half a million" instead.

There are aproximately 1.4 million active duty military. (from Wikipedia. You can confirm with the census if you prefer.)

CDC reports that 90% of men 25-54 have had oral sex with a female; 40% have had anal sex with a female. Now, there's obviously no quick and easy way to make the numbers fit, but I see here that the average man in the Army is 28 years old, so he'd fit in that range. Now, of course, it's likely that the UCMJ makes some percentage of those men think twice before they allow a woman to perform oral sex on them, or before they engage in anal sex with a woman -- but I don't really don't know how much to discount the numbers. Do you think cutting them in half sounds fair? If we did that, and said 45% of them have had oral, we'd be looking at over 600,000 soldiers under investigation for engaging in oral sex.

Whatever the actual number, I think it's fair to say it's certainly a lot more than the number engaging in homosexual contact. Since they're both equally against regulations, and since our military continues to be the finest in the world, I fail to see where we have a order and discipline problem stemming from all this "unnatural carnal copulation."

Neither one of us is budging from our positions on this; let's just call it a day.

[LowOiL]

I never dropped "judging" when it never occured.

Your the one that said "I'm proud to be Orthodox and we do not judge people.".

Stop contridicting yourself.

Your hot air does not mean squat when you write that you would defend Christianity.

Jesus's words for the Bible is only hot air to those who hit rock bottom.

Don't try using family members prior servicetime as a cop-out to not have ever served.

When you stop waving it around like John Kerry, John Murtha or that Marine that parades around with Cindy Sheehan and holding their opinions at the same time. Military service doesn't give you one red cent on the battlefield of ideas. We are on the subject of homo's in the ranks of our military, you are for it to the point of calling those against you "unChristian", I am against it and have backed up why. You have been reduced to hiding like a liberal demo behind your military service. If being military is having to act like you, no thank you.

I personally do not care if you can type out of the bible, that is just great hotshot.

I personally don't care for you calling us "un-Christian" and being unable to prove it.

Besides, AF is not a "real, actual" military branch. Ever see them in action here in Iraq? They are laughing stocks where I am. AF Reservists? Oh my gosh, even worse!

Spit on them (your own fellow soldiers) if you want, just count me out. We do free military uniform repairs regardless if you like them or not. Odd you will do that, but those of us that point out rightfully that homosexuals are worse gains your wraith. Very telling.

I am sure of and confidant of myself that my past transgressions/sins that I confess to God will all be forgiven.

Just as sure as you are of homosexuals being OK and it is unChristian for pointing out their lifestyles are such.

So, I put my talk into action. whewwwww! I can go on and on and on...

While you go on and on and on, perhaps you can try to make a viable arguement along the way for those gays being in the Armed Forces.