Posted on 06/21/2006 4:49:02 PM PDT by paudio
"90% of all drugs brought to market these days are developed in the U.S."
Did you made it up?
A.Pole, by now you should know better than to think I'd fabricate a statistic to make my point. I'll leave that to others here who don't understand the subject they're commenting on yet insist on embarrassing themselves by pretending they do. In the future, maybe you should stick to subjects you have more knowledge of.
This is from the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers Association trade journal I receive. You'll just have to take my word for it. The information is a little dated but it easily refutes what you were attempting to imply in post #26.
Over the past two decades, the percentage of sales these companies have allocated to R&D has increased from 11.9% in 1980 to an estimated 20.3% in 2000. Meanwhile, the average ratio of R&D to sales for all US industries is less than 4%. Based on corporate tax data compiled by Standard & Poor's Compustat, pharmaceutical manufacturers invest a higher percentage of sales in R&D than virtually any other industry, including high-tech industries such as electronics, aerospace, office equipment (including computers), and automobiles.
To develop a new drug is time-consuming, expensive and risky. It takes 12-15 years on average [patent protection normally lasts just 17 years], costs about $500 million, and only one of every 5,000-10,000 new compounds discovered in the laboratory ever makes it to market as a new drug."
I'm sure you can embarrass yourself some more by supplying us with the amount of tax dollars the government invests in pharma research so we can compare it to private industry. Much of the junk science forced on society today is funded by federal grants. If you wish to remain healthy you'd better not look to government to take care of you.
Why would anyone who supports free trade hate it when it comes to the pharmaceutical industry? Or, are you as misinformed on the subject as A.Pole?
You can bet if they come up with a cure for male pattern baldness it will be private industry bringing it to market. It's a shame the Forbes article on the number of drug resistant bacteria is no longer available on-line. You should read it. Pretty sobering to understand what we're up against. All the promising new drugs are coming from private industry. As always, they'll save the day and those who don't know any better - but benefit from them - will continue to rail against the pharmaceutical industry and demand that government control the prices and kill all innovation. Sad.
Bastards!
The United States, which does not currently have price controls, produces nearly 90 percent of the world's supply of new pharmaceuticals.
Printing your claim in red and underlining it is not enough. The source, the source !
Are you blind? I linked it in my previous post.
Do you think you can find it if you read the article?
This is just an article written by a leader of a deceptive lobby group (American Council on Science and Health) in an opinion magazine.
REAL data please.
I wouldn't make such a claim, because it's false.
My wife's hometown, Basel, is the "Pittsburgh" of the global drug business. A stretch of the Rhine several kilometers long is lined with laboratories that crank out a large percentage of the prescriptions we use every day. If you have a prescription in Switzerland, you can get it filled anywhere you ant. It's a free market, with pharma companies that make plenty of money without needing the monopoly powers American pharma keeps wheedling for.
Some countries, such as Canada, impose price controls on drugs. Others, like Mexico and Switzerland, run a free-for-all open market.
It's time we stopped letting pharma companies feed us crap about the putative need for monopoly powers to "promote research". I hope China gets into the business and does to Big Pharma what it did to the RIAA.
There's an old expression about not saying anything and maintaining doubt vs. exposing your ignorance. Now you've successfully removed all doubt. The American Council on Science and Health was started by Liz Whelan back in the 70's and has become the premier American advocacy group for sound science. Their directors and advisers are a who's who of the top scientists, doctors and policy experts in each of their respective fields this country has to offer.
Liz Whelan is one of this country's most respected experts on public health and has more talent and resources at her disposal than any other organization in the U.S. To dismiss them as a deceptive lobby group just further exposes your lack of knowledge on the subject we're discussing here. For someone so flagrantly ill informed, why do you pretend to understand things you know nothing about. Feel free to prove Ms. Whelan wrong. I'd be glad to contact her with your proof of her being mistaken and will gladly share her response with you. Not only are you ill informed; you're lazy.
Are you going to offer the same tired anecdotes? Like A.Pole says, how about some hard facts and sources for your feelings.
Basel, is the "Pittsburgh" of the global drug business. A stretch of the Rhine several kilometers long is lined with laboratories that crank out a large percentage of the prescriptions we use every day
Fortunately for Europe and the US, the Germans left Swiss industry relatively unscathed during WWII. As a result, their drug industry flourished after the war. The majority of manufacturing may still be there but the larger part of their R&D has moved here. Both Roche and Novartis have recently moved their R&D headquarters to the US.
without needing the monopoly powers American pharma keeps wheedling for.
You, like A.Pole, can make these sorts of ridiculous claims but cannot back them up. Until the early 90's about 60% of all new drugs were discovered in the US. Since then, many large companies, in addition to Roche and Novartis, have expanded their R&D here so the percentages just keep going up. The Americans continue to dominate in biotechnology which is where so many of the new drugs are coming from. Whelan is spot on in the linked article even if your feelings tell you otherwise.
Advocacy group yes.
Their directors and advisers are a who's who of the top scientists, doctors and policy experts in each of their respective fields this country has to offer.
Of cource they must be very objective and free from any material interest to work for such noble advocacy group :)
REAL data please. You made the claim, cannot you get some statistics on how much new drugs appear a year and in which countries? I guess not.
Most countries in the world have imposed price controls on Pharmaceutical makers. The drug makers, like any other producer, try to earn all they can in any given market that does not mandate price controls. Switzerland, with just 7 million people, is not going to impact drug company profits to any significant degree.
It's time we stopped letting pharma companies feed us crap about the putative need for monopoly powers to "promote research".
Right! Let's regulate their profit and their freedom to spend where they see fit. Then we'll demand they produce the magic bullets to cure disease and improve our quality of life because it's their duty to the state. Good grief, how misguided some here are about what creates innovation. You are also misguided about the relationship between industry and government. The FDA treats industry just as bad as everyone else. The pharmaceutical industry and the FDA have one of the most adversarial relationships in our economy.
I hope China gets into the business and does to Big Pharma what it did to the RIAA.
Fortunately for more rational people, China has not proven it can innovate much of anything, much less something as sophisticated as pharmaceuticals. They may one day be a player in the generic business but they are a very long way from establishing a pipeline of innovation. You and I will not see a Chinese based R&D industry in our lifetime. The infrastructure required to do so is not something the Chinese, or anyone else, will be able to create in the foreseeable future.
Cannot you get me some source proving I am (or Ms. Whelan) wrong? If you knew anything about the life sciences you wouldn't be making such a fool of yourself on this thread. I can't stop you from doing so, so feel free to carry on.
I'm wondering if your intellectual laziness is worse than your being slothful? Or, are they one in the same?
No, it is you who repeated this ridiculous claim.
This is your homework assignement:
Find data on how many new drugs are invented a year and find breakup by countries. Put the data in a table.
You can use Google to help you. Take your time.
Switzerland is an entrepot economy, like Hong Kong. The number of people who trade in Switzerland is far greater than the modest local population.
Right! Let's regulate their profit and their freedom to spend where they see fit. Then we'll demand they produce the magic bullets to cure disease and improve our quality of life because it's their duty to the state.
Which is why I'm arguing for going in the opposite direction, toward less regulation. The problem in the US right now is that drug companies buy government help in enforcing a monopoly. Economists call his behavior "Rent-seeking"
Instead, let's allow a free market for all. Let pharma price its sales to any country as it sees fit, while at the same time giving consumers absolute freedom to shop around for the best deals. We can buy everything else cheap at Wal-Mart. Why not drugs?
Just 158 years too late.
You're the one who called me a liar, comrade. I gave you a reliable and conservative source to back up what I said. Now either prove it wrong or STFU. Maybe you should ping your posse again so they can see what a fool you've made of yourself.
In the meantime, Res Ipsa Loquitur. Since you're too lazy to look it up, it means let the facts speak for themselves.
You remind me some liberals whom I know who believe in every word NYT find fit to print.
Mase provided a source for his information to show he didn't just pull the data from thin air. You did a crawfish. You just keep adding more requirements and moving the goalpost further back.
IMHO, in a purely objective sense from the sideline of this argument (and I don't know either of you), you (A Pole) are just being asinine. I wouldn't bother responding to you again if I was Mase.
It really doesn't matter. The money that funds R&D for all the major drug companies is earned in the US.
Which is why I'm arguing for going in the opposite direction, toward less regulation
I'm with you here. Unfortunately, the FDA is motivated by politics, public opinion and not making mistakes. Those three things do not bode well for a relaxation of regulations.
The problem in the US right now is that drug companies buy government help in enforcing a monopoly
The Pharma's are not getting much bang for their buck since the industry is filled with entrpreneurs. Now it's my turn for anecdotes. My brother-in-law is a VC in the medical and pharmaceutical industry. He specializes in biotechnology. He has more legitimate opportunities than he can fund. Money is flowing to these ventures that are being started by ex-big pharma employees as well as small companies that buy specific drugs from big pharma and rework them to be more efficacious. Competition is alive and well in pharmaceuticals so the conspiracy to protect their monopoly isn't working out too well. Just look at drug company PE's and you'll find out the sad story. The belief that they make obscene profits cannot be substantiated by their financials. If they were a monopoly, they'd be making a lot more money.
Instead, let's allow a free market for all. Let pharma price its sales to any country as it sees fit, while at the same time giving consumers absolute freedom to shop around for the best deals.
I'm with you here again. Unfortunately, the politics of cheap drugs is forcing the world's nanny states to enforce their shortsighted price control laws. The American public is providing the majority of the supply of new drugs. We either allow it to continue and keep the pipeline full or we succumb to the pressures of socialism, like some here advocate for, and kill the golden goose. Then we all suffer.I see the practitioners of price controls as leeches. What to do?
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