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Gas tax on miles, not gallons, tested in Oregon!
UPI | 3-25-2006

Posted on 03/26/2006 5:10:28 AM PST by runvus

Gas tax on miles, not gallons, tested PORTLAND, Ore., March 25 (UPI) -- Oregon is testing the idea of collecting highway funds through a tax on miles driven, rather than gasoline consumed.

Eighty percent of Oregon's highway money comes from its 24-cents-per-gallon gas tax. If the state promotes reducing gasoline consumption and consumers tend to buy the fuel-efficient vehicles, including hybrids, highway revenues would take a hit, The New York Times reported.

The test program uses a global positioning system to track miles driven, using a black box to calculate how many miles are clocked in-state, out of state and during rush hour.

The experiment is designed to increase state revenue for road maintenance without raising gasoline taxes, but critics say collecting GPS records poses new privacy issues.

"The existence of such a database, which would, for the first time in history, allow for the creation of detailed daily itineraries of every driver, raises obvious privacy concerns," said David L. Sobel, general counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a civil liberties group in Washington.


TOPICS: Government; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: bigbrother; gastax; mileagetax; yaxes
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To: HighWheeler

I dunno. Nobody cheats on their taxes faster than a liberal who has graduated college and found they have to begin paying student loans back on top of taxes they never knew were so outrageous. It's like an animal activist who totals their new Hybrid Toyota by hitting a deer. From that moment on, they want to slaughter every deer within 100 miles. Slowly.....


51 posted on 03/26/2006 6:16:38 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: LZ_Bayonet
No, there is no sales tax on goods. Oregon does not have a real estate transfer tax either. Oregon only has a 9% income tax. Also, we have gas station attendents pump our gas!!

Not all Oregonians are liberal, just Portland, Salem, and Eugene. Pretty much the rest of the entire state including the eastern side of the state is conservative!! This is just another one of the many fights we will have with the libs in the cities.

52 posted on 03/26/2006 6:23:25 AM PST by thirst4truth (I reject your reality and subsitute my own)
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To: R. Scott
How long before people are installing Faraday cages around the box?

No need. The satellite signal is so weak that even a heavy cloud cover or a dense forest can block the signal. How often do either of those conditions occur in Oregon?

Just smear some mud or apply metallic tape over the antenna cover.

53 posted on 03/26/2006 6:36:59 AM PST by jimtorr
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To: thirst4truth

Correct! The rest of the state, 99% of it, has open season, no limit on libs and illegals. We practice the three S's....


54 posted on 03/26/2006 6:56:20 AM PST by OregonRancher (illigitimus non carborundum)
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Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: Troublemaker
How long before someone figured how to take this off the car & leave it in the garage...while they drove around town?

Just cover the "black box" with some lead shielding and no signals get through to/from the satellites.

56 posted on 03/26/2006 7:10:32 AM PST by ImaGraftedBranch ("Toleration" has never been affiliated with the virtuous. Think about it.)
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To: LZ_Bayonet
Good morning.
"So Oregon will probably begin tracking, and taxing, based on how many loads of wash you run or how many times you use the blender or coffee pot."

Followed by the sewer fluids tax to track the citizen's use of water, the sewer solids tax to track the citizen's consumption of edible resources, and the oppressive oxygen consumption tax that eventually leads to the downfall of the statists.

Michael Frazier
57 posted on 03/26/2006 7:23:49 AM PST by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
Just cover the "black box" with some lead shielding and no signals get through to/from the satellites.

If this goes through and people sabotage their boxes officials will wonder why money isn't rolling in.

The fix, random check points to see if your box is working properly. The "general welfare" card will be played to cover the inconvenience of it all until the collectivist and their policies are voted out.

Of course a max exodus of the middle class and keeping the poor poorer (Who predominately use public transportation) will ensure votes for the collectivist. Probably the power whores dream but still way too early for the collectivist to claim victory.
58 posted on 03/26/2006 7:24:58 AM PST by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: HighWheeler

Wear and damned tear on the roads here in Oregon is nearly 100% due to studded tires which literaly carve trenches into the raodway. We have approximately 2 days of freezing weather a year but these tires are on cars 3 to 5 months out of the year.


59 posted on 03/26/2006 7:30:59 AM PST by xander
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To: runvus
And the Libs in Oregon are worried about President Bush listening in on Terrorist's cell phone calls!!!!???? :-/

Looks like it was a Republican nannystater who came up with this genius idea. From the article about this at

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001972174_mileagetax05m.html

"In 1999, Ford brought some of its alternative-fuel-concept cars to Salem, Oregon's capital, for a demonstration. Bruce Starr, then a Republican state representative from the Portland suburbs, took a spin in a $6 million fuel-cell vehicle. "I got to thinking, 'What happens when you encourage high-mileage vehicles?' " Starr remembers. "That was in some respects the genesis of this."
60 posted on 03/26/2006 7:41:52 AM PST by Thoro (Then an accidental overdose of gamma radiation alters his body chemistry....)
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To: blackdog
Only works if the gps and its associated computer do not interface with the on-board diagnostic unit, speedometer and a gyro. If the any of the signals is off by a precalculated amount the computer simply disables the vehicle.
61 posted on 03/26/2006 8:06:19 AM PST by TheFrog
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To: jimtorr

But that's too simple!


62 posted on 03/26/2006 8:07:53 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: R. Scott

"How much would that cost?"

I don't know buy I want the contract to supply the four mounting screws.


63 posted on 03/26/2006 8:33:19 AM PST by B4Ranch (Immigration Control and Border Security -The jobs George W. Bush doesn't want to do.)
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To: blackdog

Alright quit messing with us. Why did you land gear up? Yes, I want the full story. :)


64 posted on 03/26/2006 8:34:49 AM PST by B4Ranch (Immigration Control and Border Security -The jobs George W. Bush doesn't want to do.)
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To: runvus

Sort of reminds me of the dilemma that the government is in concerning smoking reductions resulting in reduced tax revenue.


65 posted on 03/26/2006 8:50:09 AM PST by TruthWillWin
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To: Shalom Israel

What makes you think this was unintended? They are just following Britains lead in establishing a totalitarian society where a once free people reigned.


66 posted on 03/26/2006 8:53:18 AM PST by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: runvus
"The existence of such a database, which would, for the first time in history, allow for the creation of detailed daily itineraries of every driver, raises obvious privacy concerns," said David L. Sobel, general counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a civil liberties group in Washington.

Even though it's early, can we nominate him for the understatement of the year?
67 posted on 03/26/2006 8:56:14 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: Troublemaker

I think the trick will be to buy two of the same make and model car. Hack the firmware and flashthe memory in one blackbox to eliminate any unique ID keys to hardware in the car, then remove blackbox from car 1 and splice it next to the blackbox in car 2. The GPS unit will continue to collect correct key info, and the GPS tracking will have both cars permanently parked in your garage.

Make sure not to leave any physical marks on the blackbox case, and do some very high quality soldering, and your free of Big Brother and his mileage tax.


68 posted on 03/26/2006 9:24:38 AM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: runvus

Amazing, isn't it?


69 posted on 03/26/2006 9:26:04 AM PST by antceecee (...some people would complain if you hung 'em with a new rope...)
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To: Hoodat

The real goal of leftists is to get you out of your car and onto public transportation. Then they can mess with you via all the strikes by the unionized public transit workers shutting down the only way you have to go to work.
The automobile represents individual freedom. Mass transit = socialism.


70 posted on 03/26/2006 9:29:36 AM PST by antceecee (...some people would complain if you hung 'em with a new rope...)
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To: Mark was here

The voters here in California are running a close second.


71 posted on 03/26/2006 9:30:26 AM PST by antceecee (...some people would complain if you hung 'em with a new rope...)
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To: B4Ranch

Sheared bolt on the right main causing it to fail up or down. It was just stuck mid-travel. Piper makes all their gears where the engine hydraulics keep the gear up. Should the engine fail or the airspeed drops to within 5KTS of stall speed, the gear drops on it's own. The only time this hereto perfect system becomes unperfect is when a mouse builds a large home inside your gear well. When the gear is attempted to be raised, the mouse house becomes a load inside a trash compactor. The result is bent metal.


72 posted on 03/26/2006 11:18:34 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: thirst4truth
Not all Oregonians are liberal, just Portland, Salem, and Eugene.

Actually Marion County (Salem) is pretty conservative. The most Liberal areas in Oregon are now Portland, Corvallis, Eugene, and the coast.
73 posted on 03/26/2006 11:25:51 AM PST by Tailback (USAF distinguished rifleman badge #300, German Schutzenschnur in Gold)
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To: runvus

When the English proposed something like this awhile back, I expected it to happen sooner or later here in the US. Frankly I thought it would be later though


74 posted on 03/26/2006 11:28:47 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: runvus

So if an emergency comes up and a loved one is rushed to the hospital, you have to pay taxes to go see them. Really outrageous, to say the least.


75 posted on 03/26/2006 11:30:55 AM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: runvus

The liberal fascists will do ANYTHING to control people and take their money.
Of course, those fools up there deserve the scum they elect.


76 posted on 03/26/2006 11:31:19 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: BooksForTheRight.com
Take note. This will happen everywhere that liberals get into politicians are in power

Considering the amount that Bush has recommended to waste on hybrid research I do not see that is limited to one party

77 posted on 03/26/2006 11:31:34 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: antceecee
The real goal of leftists is to get you out of your car and onto public transportation. Then they can mess with you via all the strikes by the unionized public transit workers shutting down the only way you have to go to work. The automobile represents individual freedom. Mass transit = socialism.

It's not just leftists, have this push in Texas through Rick Perry (although he is a former Democrat). The state is pushing toll roads all over the place, as well as light rail, as well as a huge transportation corridor (interesting enough, headed up and being built by a European consortion, if you are into conspiracy theories).

Not only new toll roads, but roads that have already been paid for, are going to be converted - how's that for double taxation. Don't even think about taking service roads - they are going to have areas where the service roads don't connect, as well keeping lights out of sync so that it's much slower.
78 posted on 03/26/2006 11:33:37 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: blackdog

Absolutely no criticism intended here just searching for information because I fly quite a bit in private aircraft.

So is this a case of insufficent preflight inspection by the pilot or was the mouse house completely hidden from exterior view?


79 posted on 03/26/2006 11:35:32 AM PST by B4Ranch (Immigration Control and Border Security -The jobs George W. Bush doesn't want to do.)
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To: Larry Lucido

>>What did Ayn Rand say? You can't control free men. You have to make criminals of them.

See the first quote on my FReeper home page.


80 posted on 03/26/2006 11:42:31 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: runvus

Yeah well, they would just track my ass right out of their stinkin state and forever. Glad I don't have to make that decision, man oh man Oregon is becoming Nazified right before our eyes.


81 posted on 03/26/2006 11:49:35 AM PST by SaintDismas
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To: runvus; hollywood; Squantos; Myrddin; vrwc0915; planekT; Mulder; Dead Corpse; Lurker; Eaker

Comrade, if you're not doing anything illegal, why should you mind a government GPS tracker in your car?


82 posted on 03/26/2006 11:52:43 AM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: blackdog
Can you imagine a terrorist strike on a GPS database used for such tax collection purposes?

Nonsense. Some al-Qaeda agent with pics of a politician in bed with a dead girl or live boy probably got this introduced in the first place to protect their revenue stream.

83 posted on 03/26/2006 11:54:53 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: hedgetrimmer
They are just following Britains lead in establishing a totalitarian society where a once free people reigned.

V for Vendetta looks more prophetic each year....

84 posted on 03/26/2006 11:57:01 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: runvus

Leftists are going to impose their values on the nation through behavior taxation. That is just great and so much better than Falwell taxing each act of viewing porn. /s/


85 posted on 03/26/2006 12:05:41 PM PST by Galveston Grl (Getting angry and abandoning power to the Democrats is not a choice.)
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To: Hoodat
"I take it that the Hummer and the Honda Prius will be paying the same tax for miles driven even though one pollutes 8 times more than the other?"

Not just them, but motorcycles too, I imagine.

Sigh (shakes head).

86 posted on 03/26/2006 12:09:44 PM PST by the anti-liberal (Hey, Al Qaeda: Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent)
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To: thirst4truth
"Not all Oregonians are liberal, just Portland, Salem, and Eugene."

I do believe Ashland belongs on that list!

87 posted on 03/26/2006 12:10:41 PM PST by the anti-liberal (Hey, Al Qaeda: Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent)
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To: Travis McGee
Oh fellow comrade I agree and bow down to the glorious party

No need to install a GPS tracker at .gov expense the sheeple pay for them themselves they call it a cell phone or OBD-II you wonder why the OS that runs the emissions controls and engine management is encrypted better than the FBI's computers Really look it up: http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/common/opinions/199804/96-1392a.txt

88 posted on 03/26/2006 12:11:44 PM PST by vrwc0915
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To: Popman
"Sir, we pulled you over because we scanned your vehicle at the checkpoint and did not receive an GPS signal. Here's your $265 ticket, you have 30 days to bring your vehicle into compliance or we will issue a bench warrant"

I said years ago on this forum that this is what it was going to come to.

You won't even get pulled over. You will get your ticket in the mail for everything for failing to signal a lane change, for exceeding the speed limit, to not wearing your seat belt.

Remember who said it first.

89 posted on 03/26/2006 12:13:55 PM PST by nightdriver
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To: B4Ranch

Does the State use no-bid contracts?


90 posted on 03/26/2006 12:16:41 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: runvus
"The experiment is designed to increase state revenue for road maintenance without raising gasoline taxes, but critics say collecting GPS records poses new privacy issues."

Not to mention punishing you for where you may live and which route you choose to take to work and back. Proof? That they want to distinguish between rush hour and non-rush-hour traveling intimates they are going to charge more for sitting in traffic.

Talk about a deprivation of liberty without due process.

How have we gotten here?
91 posted on 03/26/2006 12:19:23 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: Popman
you have 30 days to bring your vehicle into compliance or we will issue a bench warrant

Sometime during the next ten years, I fully expect to see the inside of a jail cell for some sort of contrived infraction against the greater good.

92 posted on 03/26/2006 12:20:47 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: BearWash
You can't control free men. You have to make criminals of them.

See post # 13

93 posted on 03/26/2006 12:26:29 PM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: R. Scott

of course.


94 posted on 03/26/2006 12:26:36 PM PST by B4Ranch (Immigration Control and Border Security -The jobs George W. Bush doesn't want to do.)
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To: Travis McGee
We've seen this coming. Another straw on the camels back.

That damned dromedary is just about flat by now don't ya' think?

95 posted on 03/26/2006 12:42:14 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.)
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To: runvus

Why make it more complicated? Cars have to get smog tests and such once a year, so just have that test include the number of miles on the speedometer. Subtract from last years total and add the tax on the miles driven to the smog test fee, plus a buck or two fee for the tester. Nice and easy.


96 posted on 03/26/2006 12:44:41 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: Hoodat

You wrote -- "They severely restrict land use by prohibiting the building of intown high-density housing..."

My understanding, from living there, is that it's the opposite of what you're talking about. They actually want to use those land-use laws and regulations to pull people into town and not push them far out. And they have a term -- "densification" -- which is the opposite of what you're talking about. They're talking about having services and people "densified" and in closer proximity, making it so people can get all their services and needs "close-in" rather than drive long distances. And also, Portland is known for being a "walking town", as a lot of people walk and run and ride bikes and so on. It's not so bad, having done it all myself.

So, actually, my understanding (and experience) is the opposite of what you're saying.

And if you were living there right now, you would see all sorts of in-town, high-density living going on -- all sorts of new construction happening.

Regards,
Star Traveler


97 posted on 03/26/2006 1:31:58 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: thirst4truth

You said -- "No, there is no sales tax on goods. Oregon does not have a real estate transfer tax either. Oregon only has a 9% income tax. Also, we have gas station attendents pump our gas!!"

Yep, the no sales tax is a good thing -- for sure. I'm down in Texas for a while and I sure hate paying that sales tax. I'll be glad to have no sales tax again.

Regards,
Star Traveler


98 posted on 03/26/2006 1:42:01 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: runvus

So now the lefties want to trash privacy rights and fuel efficient cars in order to gain tax revenue, too funny!


99 posted on 03/26/2006 1:42:44 PM PST by claudiustg (Delenda est Iran!)
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To: Tailback

You said -- "Actually Marion County (Salem) is pretty conservative. The most Liberal areas in Oregon are now Portland, Corvallis, Eugene, and the coast."

Well, what you names just about encompasses 80% of the population of the entire state. The rest of the state is devoid of people.

Regards,
Star Traveler


100 posted on 03/26/2006 1:46:25 PM PST by Star Traveler
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