Bill would bar doctors from asking about guns POLL TO FREEP AT LINK

The Virginian-Pilot ^ | February 23, 2006 | By JANETTE RODRIGUES,

[SWO]

CHESAPEAKE - A pediatrician who asks a child's parent about firearms in their home could lose his or her license or be disciplined under legislation being considered by a Senate committee today.

The bill would prohibit health care professionals from asking a patient about gun possession, ownership or storage unless the patient is being treated for an injury related to guns or asks for safety counseling about them.

Sponsored by Del. Ward Armstrong, D-Martinsville, the bill sailed through the House by a vote of 88 to 11 last week. A message seeking comment was left for the delegate; he did not return the call.

The legislation is opposed by The Virginia Chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics because it blocks a common practice by medical professionals to inquire about gun ownership and safety when they go over a safety checklist with parents during a child's regular checkups from birth to puberty.

"We saw the bill but presumed no one in their right mind would put it through," said Dr. Leslie Ellwood, chapter president. "We thought it was such an unusual bill that anyone with common sense wouldn't pass it."

The national group is closely watching the bill now.

Some local medical professionals are incensed by the bill and the rapid way it is moving through the General Assembly.

The bill also is opposed by several medical groups, including The Medic al Society of Virginia and nurse associations.

The National Rifle Association supports the bill because it will protect gun owners "from intrusive, unnecessary questions from medical professionals," according to the NRA Institute for Legislative Action Web site.

"We don't have an opinion or issue an opinion on guns," Ellwood said. "We don't say it is a bad thing to have around children. Our plan is always to find out how the guns are managed in the household so they are safe."

The national pediatric group puts out a guide on safety counseling for pediatricians under its injury prevention program.

The state-endorsed guidelines are used by not just doctors and nurses but by others whose jobs involve children.

Medical professionals are encouraged to use the routine safety survey to counsel parents about everything from car safety seats and child-proofing a house and backyard pool to bicycle helmets and fire safety once the child reaches the appropriate age.

Pediatricians use the checklist to curtail preventable injuries, such as poisoning by household cleaning products, not to be intrusive, say Virginia physicians.

"The bill hits at the heart and core of prevention and protecting our children," said Dr. Nancy Welch, Chesapeake Health Department director. "I am just amazed that it has gone this far and seems to be flying under the radar."

A board-certified pediatrician, Welch e-mailed three committee members from the South Hampton Roads delegation after being notified about the Senate committee meeting today.

Sen. Harry Blevins, R-Chesapeake, has a policy of giving each bill a fair hearing before commenting on it, said his legislative assistant, Karen Papasodora-Cochrane.

Sen. Frederick Quayle, R-Chesapeake could not be reached for comment.

Sen. L. Louise Lucas, D-Portsmouth, said she thinks it's a bad bill.

"I don't know how it even got out of the House because a person who is practicing the healing arts, if they really have a child's safety in mind, would ask that question and others," she said.

If parents think the question is intrusive, Lucas said they can always tell the health care provider: "It's none of your business."

THE POLL TO DATE:

Should the state disallow pediatricians from asking parents about gun ownership?

Yes 49.25%

No 48.88%

Undecided 1.88% Total: 800 votes

Reach Janette Rodrigues at (757) 222-5208 or janette.rodrigues@pilotonline.com.

© 2006 HamptonRoads.com/PilotOnline.com

[Larry Lucido]

or asks for safety counseling about them

Any doc I ask for gun advice from better be named Holliday.

[Mulder]

Another example of the government telling people how they can talk to other people.....

When "talking to people" involves intimidation, conspiracy to deprive them of their Rights, and harassment under color of law; then the the government has a duty to get involved.

[ApplegateRanch]

I'm going to hope you're right, but I'm also going to be watching close.

[Mulder]

This is a bad bill and violates the principal of free speech.

This isn't a speech issue.

It is about one group of folks abusing their power to harass and intimidate (at the least), or (at the most) engage in a conspiracy to compile a list of gunowners to be used against them in the future.

The government has an obligation to protect individual Rights.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Unless you are at the doctor's office being treated for a gun shot wound, whether you own a gun or not is none of the doctor's business.

[muir_redwoods]

I have more guns than I have counted recently and I've been a member of the NRA since before I was grown. I have introduced my kids to firearms and they know how to use them.

That being said I do NOT favor legislation that limits the professional relationship between a doctor and his or her patient. There are lots a places the government doesn't belong. That's one of them, IMHO

[Larry Lucido]

If parents think the question is intrusive, Lucas said they can always tell the health care provider: "It's none of your business."

Which comment would then be forwarded to "child protection" investigators as proof of bad parenting abilities.

[Trailerpark Badass]

Guns? Sure, and we have a game where we spread them all over the floor, and the first kid to match up all the guns with the right ammunition gets to shoot somebody.

LOL!

When I took my son in for his first checkup, the Dr. asked if we had guns in the house. I told him I couldn't wait until he was 5 or so, so I wouldn't have to clean my guns any more. He laughed.

[Mulder]

Even so, do you believe the government should restrict someone's first amendment rights like this? If they can do that, then they can restrict your second amendment rights as well.

Yeah, before you know it, the gov't will be telling us we need permission to carry a gun, along with what kind of guns we can own and where we can carry them.

But seriously, I think you are missing the big picture.

The gun grabbers have come to the conclusion that they have failed at implemting their agenda through the legislative process. In all but a few states, it is impossible to enact any gun control. To the contrary, most states are currently liberalizing their gun laws to become more aligned with the intent of the Founders.

Having failed at the legislative process, the gun grabbers are now attempting to enact their agenda via multinational corporations and the insurance industry.

Want to work for XYZ corporation, or have medical insurance for your family? Then you must sign a form saying you don't have guns, and agree to a corporate HR bozo inspecting your home. That is where all this is going.

Virginia gunowners, fortunately, have a very proactive organization up there (VCDL) that is at the forefront in heading a lot of this stuff off.

[Mulder]

If you ever give a doctor knowledge of unlawful activity, they can report you

Not only this, but I *think* they must get some kind of bonus for doing so.

One time, I went to the doctor to get Xrays of my ankle that I had injured falling down some stairs. The nurse engaged in some very low level interrogation tactics to get me to "confess" to being in a fight (which I wasn't).

Be real careful that your kids understand that doctors (teachers, police officers, etc.) are not their best friends and blabbing unnecessarily or to get attention is not to their advantage. Your medical record will become a part of a national computer system sooner or later so keep it in a way that will look pretty to employers, insurers and cops.

Worth repeating a million times. You get the big picture.

[Panzerlied]

I gotta have a copy of this!

[FreedomPoster]

When I was asked this question, the doc *definitely* did *not* ask about swimming pools or other common safety issues.

[robertpaulsen]

Here's a nice .pdf one to print that also contains a hand-out for the physician:

http://www.2ampd.net/Articles/horn2/Firearms%20Malpractice%20Form.pdf

[Shooter 2.5]

Being forced to answer a question is a violation of my First Amendment Rights.

[2nd amendment mama]

Here you go....the copy that you reformatted for SAS (thank you). It's in pdf version so it can be easily downloaded and printed.

Physician Affidavit

[FreedomPoster]

Thanks. I really need to get one of my code-writing friends to write a little applet that will snag all the FR usernames that have made posts to a page.

[paul51]

"The bill hits at the heart and core of prevention and protecting our children,"

I totally agree. My arsenal enables me to do a much better job of protecting my children.

Question: Do you possess firearms?

Answer (depending on my mood): None of your business or yes and I have a couple on me.

[FreedomPoster]

A few pings to some of the folks posting on this thread.

See the document at the replied-to post, from the Second Amendment Sisters. It's a small *.pdf, that is meant to be printed front-and-back, and tri-folded.

[Ghost of Philip Marlowe]

With how difficult HMOs and other quasi-socialized medicine groups are making it to switch doctors, I don't have an issue with this. The fact that they only ask about FAs and not "do you have a pool in the back yard? do you cover it? is there a fence around it?" tends to prove that they are abusing the doctor-patient relationship and restrictions in free choice in order to keep a form of tabs and registry on their patients (don't forget Slick Willie's misleadingly titled "Medical Privacy Act" which actually enabled health agencies to share databased information with other agencies) and to make law-abiding citizens feel pressured into not exercising their 2nd Amendment rights.

Since the increase in Medicare/Medicaid regulations and other government regulations and the MPA, doctors are more and more becoming agents of the state. I object to this. But until we get the free market back into medicine, it is as wrong for doctors to ask this question as part of their personal political agenda as it would be for agents of the DMV.

[mbraynard]

So the government can forbid me from asking you if you have guns?

That is so assinine. You cannot let the government control what someone has to say outside of the typical five understood exclusions (libel/slander, etc.)

This weapon is just like mandating that restaurants have to forbid smoking.

There is no conspiracy of doctors - and 'none of your business' is a legitemate reply AS IS boycotting doctors who do ask that question. That is how CONSERVATIVES get things done.