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Walter Haut, spokesman who announced wreckage of flying saucer in Roswell, died at 83
www.freenewmexican.com ^

Posted on 12/18/2005 2:13:27 PM PST by lunarbicep

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To: ASA Vet

Great link and a lot of posts ny notable FReepers from my lurking days (Some still here and some not).


41 posted on 12/18/2005 6:07:37 PM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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Some related oldies, I didn't check the links for signs of life.
Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says
by Sheila Lennon
11/25/2002
While he told the world that a weather balloon went down in Roswell, an Army general had in his hand a memo telling Pentagon brass of a UFO crash with "victims," according to a new television documentary. A computer analysis of that memo, held by Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey during a July 1947 press briefing, is the "smoking gun" of the Roswell Incident, researchers say in the documentary being broadcast today on the Sci-Fi Channel. Using a digital photo scanner to enlarge and enhance words printed on the folded piece of paper Ramey held, and using another computer program to select the most likely words, researcher David Rudiak, who has a Ph.D. in physics from UC Berkeley, found two key phrases: "the victims of the wreck" and "in the 'disc' they will ship."
Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says
by Richard Benke
11/22/2002
A photograph taken July 8, 1947, in Fort Worth, Texas, by James Bond Johnson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram shows Ramey clutching a communique to Washington, D.C., while he displays a deflated weather balloon just hours after other Army officers in Roswell had reported a UFO crash... In 1997, the Air Force acknowledged the weather balloon had been a false cover story, but a new story also was called into question. In a report written by Lt. William McAndrew, the Air Force suggested reports of alien bodies in the wreckage must have originated because of a crash-test program in which mannequins were dropped from balloons. The mannequins did not come close to matching 1947 descriptions of alien bodies, and the crash-test program was not introduced until 1953, Rudiak said.
Four Ramey Message Comparisons
by George A. Filer
11/22/2002
Neil Morris writes from the University of Manchester in England. Several distinguished groups are attempting to interpret the writing on a message held in General Ramey's hand taken in the Commander's 8th Air Force office by photographer James Bond Johnson in July of 1947. David Rudiak's sent his "take" of the message and allowed me to include it in the comparisons of readings taken from a message that takes up a tiny portion of the photograph. It has taken fifty years and modern computers to attempt to read the message. There are several interpretations of the message and we should emphasize that the various "takes" are far from being set in stone and represent a "snap-shot" of a work in progress as of April. The interpretations, I am sure, WILL change and evolve as time goes on.

1) CAPITALS denote firm interpretation.
2) Lowerspace are guesses but may be incorrect
3) "*" denote unknown letter,
4) My line format is to the best I can conclude, correct to the grid layout of the typed text

(M) - Neil Morris at U. of Manchester.
(B) - Don Burleson's interpretation MUFON Journal March 2000.
(C) - Tom Carey/Don Schmitt interpretation 3/2000.
(DR) - David Rudiak March/April 2000
(F) - Chris Farmer/Filer
Line 1.
???xxxx-xxx--x-xxxxxxxx xxx--xx-xxx xxxx xxx--xx-x xx xxx

(M) reco VERY Was ROSWELl Head oIc giveN AS THE
(B) RECO ---- OPERATION WITH ROSWELL DISK 074 MJ--AT THE
(C) RECO ......OPERATION ........................................................AT THE
(DR) recovery operations WEre found NEAR site two, at one
Line 2.
????xxx xxx xxx xxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxx
(M) ..............ext 4*S EXp VIctIMS of THE WRecK and CONVAy ON TO THE
(B) - --- ..........THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO THE
(C) JULY 4TH THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO THE
(DR) todaY All THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO THE
Line 3.
???xxx xx xxxx xxxxxx xxx.
(M) *** at FORT WORTH. Txe.
(B) TEAM AT FORT WORTH. TXE.
(C) .....AT FORT WORTH. TEX.
(DR) teaM AT FORT WORTH, TEX.
Line 4.
??xxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx xx-xxx xxxx-xx-
(M) w**S** SOrTei *e**** thAT- ONUS raaF T&E A3**9* Landparty
(B) ----SS-- ON THE "DISK" MUST- HAVE SENT -0- A-AM-- A-------D
(C) ESSOR ON THE "DISK" MUST THUS SAVE FOR ATOMIC LABORATORY
(DR) ----ses in THE "DISC" THEY will ship FOR Ac-as2 Arrived
Line 5.
??xxxx-xx xx-xxxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxx
(M)SOught CRASHes *O**** are needed sITEone ** **s***** locate
(B) -- URGENT. POWERS ARE NEEDED SITETWO AT CARLSBAD,NMEX--
(C) URGENT. POWERS ARE NEEDED SITE TWO NW ROSWELL, N.MEX.
(DR) by b29 OR c47. bomber sq AsSist flights AT ROSWELL. AS---
Line 6.
??xx-x-xxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xx xxxxx xxx xxxx
(M) MIDDAY 509# TOLD newspaPeR segment of STORY Adv ****
(B) - SAFE TALK NEWSPAPER MEANING OF STORY AND -----
(C) SAFE TALK WANTED FOR MEANING OF STORY AND MISSION
(DR) (at noon)todaY SAID SenD MiStatEd rElease AS STORY And said
(F) "TOLD GA50 UNKNOWN SGMNTS OF STORY...etc."__
Line 7.
??-xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxx xx-xx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxx
(M) LLY THrY EVEN PUT for AF WEATATN BALLOONS raDar WERE
(B) ONLY SHOW ---- ---- BY WEATHER BALLOONS 400-KW WAVE
(C) NEXT CREW OUT TODAY. WEATHER BALLOONS WOULD MAKE
(DR) (news)theY nEXt send out is of WEATHER BALLOONS would make
Line 8.
??-xxxx-x xxxx xxx xxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxx.
(M) And Land L*** denver ofww3
(B) ---- -- 9 AND LAND L--- DENVER CREWS.
(C) . . . 509 HAS LAND SURVEYOR CREWS.
(DR) (a good)storY. ADD LAND Displayer crewS.
Line 9.
xxxxx-
(M) ******
(B) TEMPLE
(C) "R RAMEY"
(DR) rAMEy
(F) TEMPLE

Thanks to Neil Morris, Dept, of Physics, University of Manchester

42 posted on 12/18/2005 6:09:24 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In silence, and at night, the Conscience feels that life should soar to nobler ends than Power.")
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To: BenLurkin; Jim Robinson
notable FReepers from my lurking days (some still here and some not)

Yeah, that Jim Robinson fellow seems to have survived though.
Maybe he's got FBI files on the mods?

43 posted on 12/18/2005 6:23:39 PM PST by ASA Vet (Those who know don't talk, those who talk don't know.)
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To: billorites

Winner!LOL!


44 posted on 12/18/2005 7:15:55 PM PST by Solamente
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To: kjo
I reviewed the dozen or so statements that are in the USAF's 1997 Report "The Roswell Report: Case Closed," which is the companion addition to their original 1994 Roswell report, and none of the guys they interviewed to make statements were stationed at Roswell in July 1947. The closest they got was about a year and half after the alleged UFO crash. One guy said he was in the Navy and stationed in NM in 1949 or 1950. They even included statements from 5 to 10 years after 1957.

Well, of course none of these guys saw anything at Roswell. LoL!

45 posted on 12/18/2005 8:56:11 PM PST by demlosers
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To: demlosers
"...5 to 10 years after 1957."

Make that...1947.

46 posted on 12/18/2005 9:02:41 PM PST by demlosers
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To: Las Vegas Dave; KevinDavis

Thanks for the ping, gents.

FWIW, I met Mr. Haut a couple of years ago. He was really a pretty nice guy, at least from what I could tell from a few minute's conversation. I guess I'd be laid back too, spending my retirement years discussing UFO's at a UFO museum! ;)

Also, FWIW, I'm seeing lots of chips on shoulders on the issues of Ufology in general:

1. Some of you have such a knee-jerk derisive reaction I'm surprised you haven't developed ACL injuries. Chill out. You don't have to agree with me or anybody else on the issues involved, but most of us nutty ufologists aren't Marshall Applewhite, so it would be nice if the discourtesy would stop.

2. Others on the thread so openly embrace the conspiracy theories they get ridiculed, and act surprised. I'm continually baffled how otherwise logical FReepers become so irrational on the subject, but I am no longer surprised. I learned long ago taking umbrage via such surprise just turns up the volume on the laugh track.


47 posted on 12/19/2005 8:51:24 AM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: commonasdirt

AFAIK, Mr. Haut has only died once... ;)


48 posted on 12/19/2005 8:52:01 AM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Frank_Discussion

Regarding UFO's. While I am a big sci-fi fan I have always had a problem with where they land after traveling so far (Either in Time or Space) to get here. What is even more puzzling is the people they select to meet with or abduct. If abduction is for genetic material it is like they are not even looking for the top of the scale.


49 posted on 12/19/2005 3:02:42 PM PST by commonasdirt (Reading DU so you won't hafta)
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To: commonasdirt
"While I am a big sci-fi fan I have always had a problem with where they land after traveling so far (Either in Time or Space) to get here."

What does science fiction have to do with it? Furthermore, what does "where they land" have to do with it? Don't be vague, please.

"What is even more puzzling is the people they select to meet with or abduct."

Again, your vagueness is a problem. What are you talking about?

"If abduction is for genetic material it is like they are not even looking for the top of the scale."

What?
50 posted on 12/19/2005 9:19:00 PM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Frank_Discussion

Okay, lets cut to the chase. The Roswell incident is pure bulls**t. Secrets regarding things the government does like spying on civilians cannot be kept from being revealed by the NW Times.....But the Roswell incident has been covered up by multiple administrations. What a pantsload! If Walter Haut was involved with running that museum as a tourist attraction....great business sense. But just another roadside attraction. People also stop to see the worlds biggest ball of string. But Roswell has as much credibility as PT Barnum's mermaid exhibit. If he was involved in all this for decades as a true believer.... what a waste of a life. The funeral/viewing should have been interesting. Are tinfoil hats considered proper mourning gear?


51 posted on 12/20/2005 3:15:36 AM PST by commonasdirt (Reading DU so you won't hafta)
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To: commonasdirt
That is certainly cutting to the chase of something. FWIW, I have no real idea about what happened around Roswell. I do know that the Air Force can't seem to figure out what happened either. They've had one explanation after the other for the events on the plains of St. Augustin in 1947, each as inept as the other. Does this mean that little grey fellas are involved? Not in and of itself, but it comes down to some sort of cover-up, as melodramatic as that sounds.

I've been to the "roadside attraction" myself, and it is very interesting as such things are. Totally convincing? No, but interesting. The credibility can only be properly judged with investigation, and best so by visiting the museum. If you ever find yourself in that area, I think you'd enjoy it, if only for the kitsch value.

Walter Haut, in my limited knowledge, certainly seemed happy with his retirement. He had a long career after Roswell, and as pedestrian and conventional as anyone else.

(BTW, I did notice you answered questions I didn't ask, and evaded the ones that were asked.)
52 posted on 12/20/2005 7:30:50 AM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Frank_Discussion

"What does science fiction have to do with it? Furthermore, what does "where they land" have to do with it? Don't be vague, please."

Because most UFO experiance stories read like BAD sci-fi.

Where they land becuase if I had traveled light years to visit a planet I would not choose to then land in remote areas of little interest.

Genetic material gathering.....the manystories regarding alians interest in us as a source for that for one reason or another

Who they choose........I do not recall ever reading seeing or hearing a story about Nobel Laureates being abducted. Only people who appear to have mental health issues beyond kust the belief they were contacted.

Belief in UFO encounters is widespread. But people believe in many foolish things. The Philadelphia Experiment, Scientology, the heavens Gate Cult, Rev. Jim Jones, you name it and there is always a new sucker waiting.


53 posted on 12/20/2005 7:55:55 AM PST by commonasdirt (Reading DU so you won't hafta)
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To: commonasdirt
Firstly, kudos for actually coming back to respond. I appreciate that.

Secondly, your comments:

"Because most UFO experiance stories read like BAD sci-fi."

Most that you've read, I would wager is more accurate. I'd up that wager with the idea that I've most likely read more accounts than you have. Some are indeed Alice-in-Wonderland loonfests. Some are grounded reports from grounded people.

"Where they land becuase if I had traveled light years to visit a planet I would not choose to then land in remote areas of little interest."

A common criticism. We don't often know the motivations of our terrestrial "aliens", what is logical about thinking we can guess our way into knowing what a true alien is trying to hide?

"Genetic material gathering.....the manystories regarding alians interest in us as a source for that for one reason or another."

Or to see how we react to being violated in a most basic way, and manipulated. The genetic collections may have more purpose than gathering material. The Nazi's had Mengele, Saddam had Dr. Germ and Al Douri, the aliens (if real) have whomever they have. Sometimes medical experiments have both physical and psychological goals.

"Who they choose........I do not recall ever reading seeing or hearing a story about Nobel Laureates being abducted."

But you do have stockbrokers, homemakers, engineers, families coming home from church, and a myriad of other folks who are claimants of visits. Social strata, income level, education, or race don't seem to matter. The "Bubba/Bubbette in the trailer park" is stereotype.

"Only people who appear to have mental health issues beyond kust the belief they were contacted."

That's just plain nasty and illogical. What's next, "they're mainly jewish"? Come on, that's lame.

"Belief in UFO encounters is widespread. But people believe in many foolish things. The Philadelphia Experiment, Scientology, the heavens Gate Cult, Rev. Jim Jones, you name it and there is always a new sucker waiting."

As I said earlier, not all of us who wonder about such things are Heaven Gaiters or Raelians. We deal with the world as it is, and leave fantasy to the nutballs.
54 posted on 12/20/2005 8:18:23 AM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Frank_Discussion
But you do have stockbrokers, homemakers, engineers, families coming home from church, and
Ummm, more often, it seems, buck-toothed, nearly illiterate, back-woods types, or other under-employed types with psychological problems ... HARDLY the 'stockbrokers, homemakers, engineers, families' you purport.

Attention seekers, the product of our unconscious or the victims of well-executed hoaxs and observed by naive, untrained observers.

Here's an example:

Instructions How to Build Birthday Candle Engine Powered UFO Fire Balloons

Police Chopper Attacked by UFO in Kentucky -- Couple Confesses to Launching Dry Cleaner Bag UFO Fire Balloon

For Sale: Slightly Used UFO -- Needs New Candle -- Contact the Sheriff --

Homepage for Larry Robinson -- UFO Debunker --

or:
1) Mythological Underpinnings

"The inner face of outer space is where you meet the dreams you race."

- Rimbaud

"As our dreams show very clearly, UFOs come from the unconscious background, which always expresses itself in numinous ideas and images...Civilized man, like primitive man, is mindful of the gods, of the spirits, and of fate and the magical qualities of time and place."

- Carl Jung, Flying Saucers, a Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies

"Without doubt, there are significant surface differences between UFO encounters, angelic visitations, shamanic journeys, and near-death experiences. Yet in all of these realms we find archetypal images of initiation involving otherworldly journeys amid extraordinary - and apparently autonomous - beings. "

- Keith Thompson, Aliens and Angels


55 posted on 01/26/2006 8:10:08 PM PST by _Jim (The 'spunkets syndrome': ignore the sewerage and cheer on the people!)
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To: _Jim
That's amazing. Truly outstanding that you dug up a month-old thread to basically say:

"Ufology - It's all in their heads!"

Okay, if that's a comforting thought for you, great. However, how it "seems" to you is not reality. While there is a far number of charlatans and attention seekers in the subject area, most reporters aren't looking for public attention. That explains for the most part, based on the real demographics, why you see such an emphasis on Heaven's Gate types and Raelians, etc. The squeaky, loony wheels get the grease.

Bubba in the trailer part often wants the notoriety, the people with more serious lives just report their sightings to MUFON or one of the other private investigative groups. Then they get back to there lives, and you don't hear much about them.

Your focus on amateur-hour P.T. Barnums as the norm is the same tactic as the liberals saying Cindy Sheehan is mainstream. That's not a legacy you want to follow, is it?

Good Day.
56 posted on 01/27/2006 7:18:38 AM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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