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Smoking Ban Meeting Planned For Tuesday (Freep This Poll)
Channel3000.com ^ | September 20, 2005 | Staff Writer

Posted on 09/20/2005 2:38:10 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin

Smoking Ban Meeting Planned For Tuesday

POSTED: 7:04 pm CDT September 19, 2005 UPDATED: 1:35 pm CDT September 20, 2005

MADISON, Wis. -- The Madison Common Council is preparing to clear the air on the city's smoking ban Tuesday night.

Many of those who have rallied to repeal the smoking ban are expected to attend Tuesday night's common council meeting.

Three smoking-related things are on the agenda including an outright appeal of the ban, an amendment to allow businesses to apply for a hardship exemption and a proposal for a citywide referendum.

"It doesn't look like there's enough votes to repeal the ban," said Mayor Dave Cieslewicz. "And at this point, it doesn't look like there are enough votes for the other options as well. At this point, it looks like the smoking ban will remain in place."

Spokesmen for the group that supports repealing the smoking ban said they have eight of the 11 votes needed for repeal.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: addiction; cancer; gnatzie; kelolovers; lunger; nicotine; nikifit; pufflist
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To: maineman

On a regular basis!!!!!

Actually, I don't live on the Island itself, but use that as a geographic location for the hurricane threads. I live about 15 miles from Chincoteague on the mainland.

Haven't caught you on these types threads before - are you on Shelion's list? do you want on hers or ine?


51 posted on 09/20/2005 9:32:02 PM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: Gabz

About damn time.


52 posted on 09/20/2005 9:39:07 PM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
Please click the source link above and Freep this poll to repeal the Madison, WI destructive, mean-spirited and just plain stupid Smoking Ban.

I was able to vote only twice. Not fair!

But after I waited couple minutes I was able to vote again.

53 posted on 09/20/2005 9:45:59 PM PDT by A. Pole (Gov.Gumpas:"But that would be putting the clock back, have you no idea of progress, of development?")
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To: Gabz

49-51%!!! WOO-HOO!! WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYBODY?? Maybe it can be done before the poll closes, or before the Taliban gets their act together.


54 posted on 09/20/2005 9:47:09 PM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; FITZ; arete; ...
Please click the source link above and Freep this poll to repeal the Madison, WI destructive, mean-spirited and just plain stupid Smoking Ban.

Help please!

55 posted on 09/20/2005 9:53:18 PM PDT by A. Pole (Gov.Gumpas:"But that would be putting the clock back, have you no idea of progress, of development?")
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To: exnavychick

Don't know if you were pinged or not, but consider it done. :)


56 posted on 09/20/2005 9:59:51 PM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: The Foolkiller; Gabz

It's now 50-50!!!!! PLEASE, guys-everybody show up.


57 posted on 09/20/2005 10:02:38 PM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
wow - exactly even until I voted. 257 for repeal and 257 against. As of 1:02 AM Wednesday morning here in Beantown.
58 posted on 09/20/2005 10:03:19 PM PDT by warsaw44
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To: warsaw44

WE'RE IN THE LEAD!! But by only two votes.


59 posted on 09/20/2005 10:05:12 PM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: A. Pole

Voting more than once is a tactic of the supporters of these bans - we don't want to seem to be acting like they do, do we? (wink, wink)


60 posted on 09/20/2005 10:11:40 PM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: Gabz

You're quite correct...every time I check the poll out (wink, wink), I notice that the number supporting it has also risen a few-at this time of the morning. Undoubtedly the same rabid smoker-hater who refuses to give up.


61 posted on 09/20/2005 10:59:25 PM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: Gabz

Sure. Put me on the list. Thanks.


62 posted on 09/20/2005 11:27:54 PM PDT by beckysueb (God bless America and President Bush.)
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To: beckysueb

Done, my FRiend.

the list is not made up entirely of smokers - there are many non and former smokers on the various lists - it's the property rights and excise tax issues about the entire anti-smoker thing.......which is creepinly creeping into other areas of everyone's lives.


63 posted on 09/20/2005 11:36:27 PM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: The Foolkiller; beckysueb; A. Pole

52-48 - OUR SIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


64 posted on 09/20/2005 11:38:13 PM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
I don;t like smokers and people who smoke and throw their cigarettes on the road while driving.

Smoking causes bad allergic reactions, asthma and shortness of breath to many people. I am one of them who suffer when someone is smoking in public around me. Inhaling second hand smoke even by accident causes my body to react badly with shortness of breath.

Hence, I totally support banning smoking in all public places.

If people want to smoke, let them smoke in their own private areas instead of public places. As long as the smokers do not make the non-smokers victims of their second hand smoke, I believe it is well and good.
65 posted on 09/20/2005 11:52:37 PM PDT by velocityguy
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To: Gabz

The guy in the post before me is probably the one keeping up with us on the poll. It's a dead heat again. 288-288.


66 posted on 09/21/2005 12:29:52 AM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: The Foolkiller; Gabz

We finally broke 300 votes, but the Nazi's still there & closing in. ;)


67 posted on 09/21/2005 12:56:00 AM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: velocityguy
You do not belong on Free Republic because you have no concept of the idea of private property.

My bar is PRIVATE PROPERTY - MY private property, not yours, and you are only allowed inside with MY permission.

And while I am informing you of FACTS you seem to be ignorant of, I will add a few more to counter your inane koolaid bullcrap propaganda.

My smoking MAY cause an allergic reaction in some people - but very few.

My smoking does NOT cause asthma in anyone...........it may trigger an asthma attack but not the asthma.

My smoking MAY cause shortness of breath in already ill people or myself.

Inhaling secondhand smoke causing you problems is YOUR problem, not mine.

My bar is my private area, not yours - you are only permitted there because I have said you may enter.

Your health problems are YOUR problems - YOU deal with them. It's called personal responsibility bucko - YOU have the responsibility to take care of YOUR personal; problems, not me and not anyone else.

Can you see where I'm going here? Or are you so selfish that you think your wants and desires should trump the rights of people who have spent their own money to earn a living?

I doubt you will bother answering - which just will prove all my points anyway.
68 posted on 09/21/2005 1:07:38 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: The Foolkiller

The gnatzies will continue...........many of them are actually paid to do it.

And even worse, there are far too many of the socialists here on FR that refuse to see the handwriting on the wall and fall for the crapola.


69 posted on 09/21/2005 1:13:11 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: Gabz

Why has smoking decreased from 60%-70% of the country to 30-35% (IMO), yet the asthma rate has gone UP?


70 posted on 09/21/2005 1:14:01 AM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: The Foolkiller

I'm not a scientist and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night - BUT - much of it seems to be the sterile environment so many people have been adopting.

No exposure to germs, no build up of immunity.

I needed to update our daughter's medical records at school before the new year started and so scheduled an appointment with the doc we chose here - her records at school showed the doc in Delaware - it had also been 2 years since she had been in to see one for a comprehensive physical.......Doc's attitude, and literal question, was "Why are you bringing this child in here?"

He knew why, and it was actually a rhetorical question, the point being she is PERFECTLY HEALTHY even though both her parents smoke, there are dogs in the house, and I let her play in the mud and with bugs :)

All the BS gloom and doom about smokers and SHS is just that - gloom and doom BS - but it is politically correct.........


71 posted on 09/21/2005 1:30:11 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: Gabz

her parents smoke, there are dogs in the house, and I let her play in the mud and with bugs




Makes perfect sense to me. My Mom never smoked, but my Father & my Aunt (who was around constantly when I was little), my Uncle & Grandfather-who lived next door-all did. Plus had a dog, and I played in the mud & with bugs. LOL


72 posted on 09/21/2005 1:34:47 AM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: The Foolkiller
Makes perfect sense to me.

Of course it would - you're not a moonbat koolaid drinker that believes everything the MSM feeds you.

SHEESH - after all these years I still can't believe there are FReepers that actually fall for the propaganda.

Why are either of us still up? The schoolbus will be here in 2.5 hours - unless I'm in the kitchen doing dishes, I best have my head on a pillow when hubby gets up in about 90 minutes. good night , my FRiend :)

73 posted on 09/21/2005 1:43:17 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: Gabz
Dear Dr.Gabz,
Ooooooo, thank you for the words of wisdom. You seem very very intelligent. Good for you!

And Ah, please, no need to yell at people. Learn to have some courtesy. Brazen/rude mentality benefits you nothing, except exposing your lack of understanding and commonsense!

If you want to put your point of view across, all you have to do is explain....no need to expose your decade old boorish mindset by yelling at people!!!!!

BTW, I care less about your irrational "You do not belong on Free Republic" non-sense and you. Please make a hard-coded note in your high latency low performance, high miss rate and low throughput brain- while we disagree on issues, we can be mature enough to conduct in a respectable manner. If you do not know how to be respectful, and keep on ranting and raving it might increase your Blood Pressure for no good reason. Be safe and take care!!!!
74 posted on 09/21/2005 2:05:18 AM PDT by velocityguy
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
I would like the smoking ban to ...
Choice Votes Percentage of 613 Votes
remain in place. 297 48%
be repealed. 316 52%
Thanks for participating. Check back for results.

75 posted on 09/21/2005 2:16:15 AM PDT by metesky (This land was your land, this land is MY land; I bought the rights from a town selectman!)
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To: velocityguy
I don;t like smokers...

And with that universal statement you show your ignorance.

76 posted on 09/21/2005 2:29:30 AM PDT by metesky (This land was your land, this land is MY land; I bought the rights from a town selectman!)
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To: velocityguy

Oh, boy, wait until she wakes up. :D


77 posted on 09/21/2005 2:50:10 AM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: metesky

About time some more of ya got here! ;) Keep up the good fight, Metesky, I can't keep my eyes open any more. All that's kept me going the last few hours was the fact that I'm filled with as much sheer unbridled hatred for them as they are for us. Twas not always thus, but it's come to pass. Good night all. ZZZzzzZZZ


78 posted on 09/21/2005 2:57:39 AM PDT by The Foolkiller ( Why......That sounds.....FOOLish!)
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To: The Foolkiller
Early to bed, early to rise, etc...

He, he, he.

79 posted on 09/21/2005 3:06:47 AM PDT by metesky (This land was your land, this land is MY land; I bought the rights from a town selectman!)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Stateline area (Rockford) anto-anti-smoker voting for repeal. Good luck and God Bless!


80 posted on 09/21/2005 3:29:11 AM PDT by sittnick (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: sittnick

anto-anti=anti-anti

(it's 5:30 am)


81 posted on 09/21/2005 3:30:16 AM PDT by sittnick (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: The Foolkiller
Remain: 300 48%

Repeal 328 52%

82 posted on 09/21/2005 3:38:02 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: Gabz; Just another Joe; Madame Dufarge; MeeknMing; steve50; Cantiloper; metesky; kattracks; ...
Hey folks - we got a poll to FReep!!!!!!!

I voted. Thanks for the ping.

It is now in favor of repealing the smoking ban this morning.

83 posted on 09/21/2005 3:58:36 AM PDT by SheLion (Trying to make a life in the BLUE state of Maine!)
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To: fizziwig

"I find it interesting how smoking has somehow become a conservative thing......"

Smoking is not the issue. Property rights is the issue.


84 posted on 09/21/2005 4:46:39 AM PDT by CSM ( It's all Bush's fault! He should have known Mayor Gumbo was a retard! - Travis McGee (9/2))
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To: Gabz

Voted. 53% for "be repealed".


85 posted on 09/21/2005 4:48:17 AM PDT by CSM ( It's all Bush's fault! He should have known Mayor Gumbo was a retard! - Travis McGee (9/2))
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To: velocityguy

Do you support the Kelo decision?


86 posted on 09/21/2005 5:09:57 AM PDT by CSM ( It's all Bush's fault! He should have known Mayor Gumbo was a retard! - Travis McGee (9/2))
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To: CSM; Gabz; SheLion; All

Well, we lost the repeal by ONE vote. The Progressive Dane pukes win again.

I can't wait to hear Vicki McKenna lose it on the radio today. Next step? Civil Disobedience by bar owners and patrons and moving as many businesses OUT of Madison as possible.

Madison keeps smoking ban

By Lee Sensenbrenner
September 21, 2005

The Madison City Council decided early today to keep the ban on smoking in taverns intact and not go to a referendum on the issue.

The attempt to repeal the ban failed by a narrow margin - 9 for repeal to 10 against it. The Council rejected the plan to take the issue to the voters in a spring referendum, with only 5 votes for a referendum and 14 against.

A proposal to allow bars temporary hardship exemptions if they can prove that the ban has significantly hurt their business also was not approved, or acted upon, during the overnight meeting.

Speaker after speaker took the podium, four minutes at a time, alternately telling those dozing around them in the Council chambers that it was about paying bills, or it was about health, or it was about being an American and making your own choices.

For Madison decision makers, the issue appears finally to be over. For those fighting the ban, the next step they pledged was to push for less restrictive statewide smoking rules, although Gov. Jim Doyle has said he is resistant to the idea.

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories//index.php?ntid=54901&ntpid=2


87 posted on 09/21/2005 6:53:26 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: velocityguy

ROFL.............you people slay me........Insisting on the use of government edict to tell others how to use their private property and you tell me I need to learn courtesy..............what a joke................


88 posted on 09/21/2005 7:03:58 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: The Foolkiller

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Get some sleep, FRiend :)


89 posted on 09/21/2005 7:05:24 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Is there streaming audio for the station Vicki McKenna is on? I wuld love to hear her.

I really feel for the Madison business owners, and the folks in general - they will learn the hard way this is just one more step in the WRONG direction.

Thanks for keeping us posted.


90 posted on 09/21/2005 7:14:20 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: CSM

I dont know what it is. I moved to this country only few months ago. Still learning a lot of things.


91 posted on 09/21/2005 7:19:04 AM PDT by velocityguy
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To: Gabz

http://www.wiba.com/main.html

She's on at 2pm Central. She's terrific...and she'll be loaded for bear today. ;)

Another article on the ban at the same link above:

Smoking Ban Stands... For Now

Madison's smoking ban won't be repealed. On a 10-9 vote, aldermen this morning voted down a proposal to nix the ordinance that went into effect July first. The City council also rejected a call to put the measure to referendum. A third proposal...calling for a temporary exemption of the ban for bars hardest hit...was set aside for debate at a later date.

It's been an all night affair on the city council floor...as public health was pitted against economics in arguments both for and against Madison's smoking ban. Those in support cited national numbers on things like second hand smoke deaths.. while bar.. bowling alley and tavern owners turned to numbers on how much income they've lost since the ban went into effect....July 1.

Aldermen this morning are still debating proposals to put the ban to referendum, or offer bars hard hit financially...a temporary reprieve from the ordinance.

Madison's city council was up all night...thanks to the more than 100 people who spoke up both for and against the city's smoking ban..."Capitalism in free market does not mean no regulation at all. As a matter of fact...there are times when capitalism in free market don't work, and they are called market failures. And, these aren't liberal, or conservative, or anti business, or pro business.. this is just fact... this is economic fact."

A number of tavern owners also testified..."Now, I don't know anyone that has been ever been forced into my tavern to come and breathe second hand smoke. If you don't like smoke... don'to go to a tavern. I don't like strip clubs... I don't go... It's my choice." The council took comments until about 2:30 this morning...and then started debating the proposals to tweak the ban.

There were 101 registered speakers for and against the ban and another 250 who registered on paper. Mayor Dave Cieslewicz expected that kind of turnout. "I did... I suppose maybe we finished 2 or 3 hours later than I even thought we would, but it was to be expected. There's been a lot of passion... a lot of interest in this issue, and so I wasn't at all surprised at the number of people who showed up, or the passion of the debate." The mayor says the 5 a.m. adjournment is the longest council session he's experienced since being in office.


92 posted on 09/21/2005 7:22:47 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Thanks for the link - I will try and catch her this afternoon.

There is only one public health issue regarding smoking bans - and that is the MENTAL health of the public - I mean really, unless one is mentally ill, why would one go somewhere to be exposed to something they do not like?


93 posted on 09/21/2005 7:37:29 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: metesky
Please read the complete sentence. here it is fyi - I don;t like smokers and people who smoke and throw their cigarettes on the road while driving.

In other words the smokers I do not like are the once that "throw their cigarettes on the road". Have a good day!
94 posted on 09/21/2005 7:44:22 AM PDT by velocityguy
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To: velocityguy
In other words the smokers I do not like are the once (sic) that "throw their cigarettes on the road". Have a good day!

Yeah, I did that once. Not enough bang for the buck. Now I put the butts in my empty beer cans and throw everything out the car window at once.

95 posted on 09/21/2005 7:58:05 AM PDT by metesky (This land was your land, this land is MY land; I bought the rights from a town selectman!)
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To: velocityguy
In other words the smokers I do not like are the once that "throw their cigarettes on the road".

Nice ttempt to dig yourself out of the hole you put yourself in..........but it doesn't work.

96 posted on 09/21/2005 7:58:33 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: metesky; velocityguy

My personal experience, smoking at job also causes a lot of time waste. For example, my lab assitant smoked and she used to take 10 min break for every 20 min work she (hardly) did and smoke a ton of cigarettes. It is not allowable in an office setting like mine (we develop high speed architectures for computing) where every chip made is very very expensive. A simple ESD problem can lead to $$$$$$ loss. So we fired her. (Ofcourse, she made rude comments as expected "you foreigners know nothing....you guys come here and dictate what we should do....while all we are trying to do is maintain productivity for the company). Now the one that works, she works 8 hrs with honesty....no need to search for my assistant anymore....she is always at her desk in the lab....and gets things done faster than ever I have seen here.


97 posted on 09/21/2005 7:59:47 AM PDT by velocityguy
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To: Gabz
No need to waste my time on you.I think I very much know how competent you are!
98 posted on 09/21/2005 8:07:33 AM PDT by velocityguy
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To: velocityguy

ROFL!!!!!!!

Thanks for the great laugh this morning........


99 posted on 09/21/2005 8:27:47 AM PDT by Gabz ((Chincoteague, VA) Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane season)
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To: velocityguy; Gabz; All

"So we fired her. (Ofcourse, she made rude comments as expected "you foreigners know nothing....you guys come here and dictate what we should do....while all we are trying to do is maintain productivity for the company). Now the one that works, she works 8 hrs with honesty....no need to search for my assistant anymore....she is always at her desk in the lab....and gets things done faster than ever I have seen here."

So, it never occured to you that this lab asst. you fired was just a slacker in general, who happened to smoke?

Puh-leeze. My husband smokes. He gets more done in an average work day than most people get done in a week. I don't smoke, and I'm the same way. We both run our own small businesses. Maybe that "Ownership Society" ethic has something to do with it? Your lab asst. had no personal stake in the success or failure of your lab. Why would she care? A slacker is a slacker, smoker or not.

Why is it lost on you that this battle is for PERSONAL PROPERTY RIGHTS? Why does the government have the right to swoop in, make regulations on how you do business and basically put you OUT of business?

How well would that go over in your lab? Think of something that would cripple your ability to do you job, then imagine the government foisting that upon you and closing your lab.

It's the exact same thing. The smoke Nazis pretend this is all about the health of the workers, but it's not. You're being fooled if you believe that.


100 posted on 09/21/2005 8:47:56 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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