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Expulsion rate highest for preschoolers, study shows
Fort Worth Star Telegram ^ | May 17, 2005

Posted on 05/17/2005 4:25:56 AM PDT by tuffydoodle

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To: xsmommy

my kids considered it a fun place to go for a few mornings per week. it is hardly fair to characterize sending a child to preschool from 9-noon, three mornings a week, instutionalization.

But yours is not the situation with a lot of the kids in preschool. A lot of these little tykes are getting shuffled/ shuttled from daycare to pre-school and back to daycare and are in an institutionalized setting for more than 8 hours per day/ 5 days per week.

21 posted on 05/17/2005 4:54:26 AM PDT by elli1
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To: xsmommy
I'm sorry you took my comment personally. Several of my children have attended preschool, for limited hours, and enjoyed themselves without causing any problems. My second son learned so much at our church MDO class (two days a week) that I had him skip Kindergarten!

However, the article says about its first anecdotal subject:

Kevin, who is now 5 years old, became frustrated quite easily, threw temper tantrums and became unruly at his day-care center.

Although more detail is not given, "day-care center" implies 10-12 hours a day, five days a week.

It's true that many children are not being disciplined by their parents, and one reason is that they're rarely WITH their parents!

22 posted on 05/17/2005 4:54:57 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Every day is Mother's Day when you have James the Wonder Baby!)
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To: xsmommy
This is an all-day day care center. I know several people who send their children to it.

Perhaps, Mom need to spend more time with little Kevin teaching him how to behave.

23 posted on 05/17/2005 4:55:12 AM PDT by writmeister
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To: cyborg

i don't know, maybe my son wasn't particularly highspirited, or maybe he knew he would be punished if i heard he could not behave himself. he is in 7th grade now and will get an occasional demerit for talking in class or acting the fool, and i have told him that if you get yourself pegged as a screwoff that is how you will be perceived. He did it with his spanish teacher and has no hope of anything higher than a B in there, bc she thinks he is a screw off. She is not competent, doesn't speak english very well and doesn't have control of the class. i told him you will have incompetent teachers and bosses in life and you just have to learn to deal, because you can control your own behavior and their incompetence doesn't give you a free pass to act up.


24 posted on 05/17/2005 4:55:20 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: tuffydoodle
Wow! What a shocker. Kids who are being raised in "Kiddie Kennels," spending the vast majority of their waking hours in the care of virtual strangers to the child's family, are turning out to be behavioral problems.

Personally, I'm stunned...(tongue embedded in cheek)

Frankly, you've got to shake your head at any parent who can actually conclude that someone who they don't even have a personal relationship with can possibly provide their child with care that is a satisfactory substitute for that which could and should be provided by that child's family.
25 posted on 05/17/2005 4:56:16 AM PDT by RavenATB ("Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw)
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To: Tax-chick

Your are correct. This is an all-day day care center and not a two or three morning a week pre-school.


26 posted on 05/17/2005 4:56:21 AM PDT by writmeister
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To: tuffydoodle

These kids just need a good swat on the bottom occasionally.


27 posted on 05/17/2005 4:57:53 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: tuffydoodle

"The study recommends that programs develop clear policies on how to deal with students with behavioral problems, like placing them in an alternative program or providing individual behavioral aides. It also recommends requiring that teachers be trained in addressing behavior problems."

Clear policy - Send 'em home and make Mom and Dad do their jobs.


28 posted on 05/17/2005 4:59:02 AM PDT by ryan71 (Speak softly and carry a BIG STICK)
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To: xsmommy
You're right...it's not fair. Likening these "centers" to a dog kennel would be better characterization.

But, we love our dogs too much to ever put them in a kennel for the amount of time we'd put our kids in these "daycare centers."
29 posted on 05/17/2005 5:00:04 AM PDT by RavenATB ("Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw)
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To: elli1

That is the point I was about to make. Anyone that doubts this is occuring only need to look at the hours 'Day care providers' offer. Some are open until midnight.


30 posted on 05/17/2005 5:00:58 AM PDT by porte des morts
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To: writmeister

I appreciate the accurate information.

There are children who have problems in limited-hours preschool programs as well, of course, but that's a different issue. From my observation, some of those are overindulged by their parents, while others simply are not old enough, irrespective of their calendar age.


31 posted on 05/17/2005 5:01:09 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Every day is Mother's Day when you have James the Wonder Baby!)
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To: RavenATB

apparently we are talking about two entirely different things.


32 posted on 05/17/2005 5:01:17 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Desdemona

I was totally clueless when I had my first baby, too ... and I'd supported myself as a babysitter until I went to college! It's a wonder she survived!


33 posted on 05/17/2005 5:02:34 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Every day is Mother's Day when you have James the Wonder Baby!)
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To: writmeister; xsmommy
Both my husband and I believe that a child needs to know by the age of three that there are limits and that Mom and Dad are boss. Without that foundation discipline in the later years becomes much more difficult.

We managed to do it with our kids. But many parents today often view children's tantrums and other such behavior as "expressing themselves". If Junior has learned how to manipulate/ignore Mom and Dad as a preschooler, then how can parents expect him to behave otherwise when he reaches school age?

34 posted on 05/17/2005 5:03:30 AM PDT by ContraryMary (God bless Benedict XVI)
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To: tuffydoodle
The study recommends that programs develop clear policies on how to deal with students with behavioral problems, like placing them in an alternative program or providing individual behavioral aides. It also recommends requiring that teachers be trained in addressing behavior problems.

How about adding a program to teach idiot parents how to raise a kid. These problems with kids are for NO other reason then bad parenting.

Becky

35 posted on 05/17/2005 5:03:45 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Don't be afraid to try: Remember, the ark was built by amateur's, and the Titanic by professionals.)
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To: xsmommy

Our local public pre-school program (in Texas)is 8:00AM to 3:00 PM five days a week, just as every other grade in school. That's because they can't afford to run a separate bus schedule for pre-school and because the mothers don't want the kids home because they work. They would be happy to see a longer class day, say till 5:30, but the school can't afford that either. Yes, this is child abuse and our country pays for its neglect of children and their lack of homelife in many, many ways.


36 posted on 05/17/2005 5:04:22 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: AD from SpringBay

Dollars to donuts the vast majority of these kids come from single parent homes.


37 posted on 05/17/2005 5:04:34 AM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: GraceCoolidge

Many of us remember a time when children did behave in school (and elsewhere) and teachers were able to TEACH. Teachers and students looked forward to a day of creative instruction with only limited interruption from a miscreant. Now teachers arrive at school defensive and antagonized. Creative lesson plans are useless if presented to an uncaring class. If I was teaching today, I would be tempted to buy body armor to wear each day.
So I don't fall for the "they are just being kids" theory. There was a time when (most) kids behaved. Unfortunately, we will most likely never see that again.


38 posted on 05/17/2005 5:04:37 AM PDT by REPANDPROUDOFIT
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To: AD from SpringBay

So many of the comments on this thread are on the right track.

First of all, the Campfire center featured in the article is the best childcare facility in Fort Worth. In fact, they offer training to other centers, teachers, and home care providers. However, it is a daycare facility, and not what most would consider as a traditional pre-school. This family found a good place for their child, but it is still a daycare center.

Secondly, the lack of discipline in the home is readily apparent in any classroom, but especially so in a full day program for preschoolers. What the article doesn't mention is that these aggressive children often harm other kids through fighting, biting, kicking, rough play, etc. If a child is expelled, one should suspect that other parents may have complained about those types of behaviors directed at their children.

Unfortunately, if this aggression isn't addressed at an early age, wait and see what they do in first grade.

Taking many years off to raise my own children in the home was the best sacrifice we ever made.


39 posted on 05/17/2005 5:06:12 AM PDT by tamster
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To: ContraryMary
in today's world if you don't send your kid to pre-school, then he/she will be at a disadvantage when he/she starts kindergarten

Although this article isn't really about "philosophy of schooling," I have to say that, in my opinion, when the system requires its subjects to be regimented by age 5, or else!, then there's something wrong with the system.

When you look at the education of our founders, vs. the "schooling" of children today ... well, there's no question which produced the better educational outcome, and the better outcome for the Republic! (/political rant off)

40 posted on 05/17/2005 5:06:52 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Every day is Mother's Day when you have James the Wonder Baby!)
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