GOP's `Christian nation'(party platform)

Boston Globe ^ | July 12, 2004 | Cathy Young

[take]

GOP's `Christian nation' AFTER A SHORT respite from the fight over the Pledge of Allegiance, the Republican Party has once again thrown itself into the fray over issues of church and state. This time it's the Republican Party of Texas, President Bush's home state, which has approved a plank in its platform affirming that

"the United States of America is a Christian nation."

The plank, which also pooh-poohs "the myth of the separation of church and state," has elicited protests from Jewish groups. So far, however, it has not been rejected by the national Republican Party. This is in contrast to a similar flap in 1992: A statement by then-Mississippi Governor Kirk Fordice at a Republican governors' convention that

"the United States is a Christian nation"

was met with rebukes from leading Republicans, and Fordice eventually had to apologize. True, the Texas Republican Party's plank also includes the "Judeo-Christian" formula that the national Republican leadership defended in 1992 ("our nation was founded on fundamental Judeo-Christian principles based on the Holy Bible").

[jf55510]

Lastly, the verbiage dismisses the fact that several of the founding fathers were Deist.

So what? When has anything ever been decided with a 100% of people agreeing? The fact remains that a vast majority of the founder were religious men and in fact many of them were preachers/reverands themselves.

[jf55510]

I've read two on three articles on the platform and this is the first I've learned that the platform actually does refer to "Judeo-Christian priciples." You wouldn't know that from some of the main stream media reports. Thanks for straightening me out.

No problem. My problem with the argument over the past couple of weeks is people arguing without knowing the whole plank and the two following planks.

[californialiberal]

Personally, I've never read anything about constitutional government in the Bible, which seems to have a distinctly monarchist slant. I've never read a bible story about President David or the wisdom Prime Minister Solomon, though in the case of the former, I think parliamentary oversight might have helped. Jesus certainly wasn't crucified for claiming to be a democratically elected representative of the Jewish people.

Of course you do find a lot of this democracy stuff in the secular humanist writings of Locke and Hobbes. But yes, you're probably right. Its in the Bible, probably buried somewhere between Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

And just what is Judeo-Christianity, anyway? Christianity without the compassion? Judaism without the intellect? Islam without the submission? Someone please explain.

[luvbach1]

This stupid argument is totally semantical. Everyone knows most of the founders were Christians. But clearly the constitution forbids a state religion, so what is this supposed to prove? It can only antagonize Jewish voters who polls show will support Bush in greater numbers than in 2000.Why inhibit this trend?

[Aquamarine]

Christianity without the compassion?

It's full of compassion for the innocent. The link that I made to the article on post 16 will answer all of your questions or did you just want to argue?

[newfarm4000n]

There are many decent ( non Islamic!) hard working , law abiding citizens in the republican party . Do you really want to go out of your way to exclude them ?

[rmlew]

Ms.Youngis completely wrong here. America was founded by Anglo-Protestant Americans and this has been the core of our polity and culture ever since.
It may hurt the feelings of Blacks, White ethnics, Jews, and newer non-white immigrants, but it is an objective fact.
To be blunt, Ms. Young has not beenfully assimilated and wishes to see America as some form of idea and not nation.

[rmlew]

If America was not founded as a nation for white European christians, what was it.
Look beyond the rehetorical flourishes ofthe Declaration of Independence to the actual beliefs and policies of the founding generation.

I presume, that you are a fellow Jew. The idea of a Christian nation, may chafe, but it should not. This is not Russia. There is no official sect. Jews have been equal citizens from the start, understanding that America was a Christian country.

[Consort]

Drop the plank. Next thread.

[rmlew]

May I suggest that you read I Samuel chapter 8

8:1 And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel.
8:2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba.
8:3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.
8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
8:13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
8:20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.
8:21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.
8:022 And the LORD said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.

Written before Athens was free, this is one of the earliest attacks on monarchy in the world.
For that matter, read the other prophets. Far more kings were evil than good.

[George W. Bush]

It's things like this which kept Bush away from the Texas GOP gatherings in 2000.

It may pass as a Texas plank but will be quickly dismissed as a national plank if it even gets proposed.

[F16Fighter]

"The next plank is on free excericse of religion and the plank after is on religious institutions and governments. What exactly is wrong with any of that?"

It's detractors pretend they fear lantern and pitchforked mobs who threaten beat them to death with King James versions of the Bible.

[jf55510]

It's detractors pretend they fear lantern and pitchforked mobs who threaten beat them to death with King James versions of the Bible.

Hahahaha

[Smartaleck]

"So what? When has anything ever been decided with a 100% of people agreeing?"

Because there was a diversity among the founders and if they intended the US to be a de facto Christian nation they would have said so, would they not?

"Congress shall make no law respecting the exercise of religion.........." Notice this is inclusive of all and generic in nature. It has served us well for over 200 hundred years. No need to elaborate on it.

[kezekiel]

I presume, that you are a fellow Jew. The idea of a Christian nation, may chafe, but it should not.

Evangelical Christian, actually. I am well aware of the Judeo-Christian (overwhelmingly Christian) roots of this country. The point I was trying to make is that these party planks accomplish little other than to rally the troops and alienate everyone else.

What disturbs me the most about the tenor of Christians in conservative politics these days is that we almost approach a worshipful place about our country, and seem to percieve threats to our traditions as threats to the saving grace of the church itself, forgetting that even the gates of Hell, let alone the ACLU and NOW, cannot prevail against it. Values are worthy of debating in the public square; this is our right and responsibility. We should not, though, believe that it is somehow vital to either our country or our Church that we have the Ten Commandments hanging in a courthouse, or a nativity scene on the lawn of city hall, or official party planks about this being a Christian nation. More often than not, we simply serve to draw fire on the Church that is politically motivated and has nothing to do with true persecution.

I would like to see the (little "c") churches take less of an open stand in party politics. I question how much it does to help our country, and I know that it does nothing to help the cause of salvation. Becoming a Christian should have absolutely nothing to do with associating with conservative Republican politics, but it's become almost impossible to separate the two in the public perception. This only serves to alienate many who may otherwise be honest seekers.

[Designer]

Well, I'm glad to see it included.

Why are the narrow-"minded" so dismayed to see this? Is it because you are so completely cowed by the liberal main-stream media that you have bought into the idea that religion, and the Christian Religion in particular, is bad?

As to how Jewish people might feel about such a statement, I suggest that genuine conservative Jews simply accept the fact, and move on. They are perfectly welcome and happy to live here, and greatly appreciate our laws based primarily on the Judeo-Christian morality ethic.

[philosofy123]

"the United States of America is a Christian nation."

If the US was a Christian nation it would have stopped the slaughter of millions of Christians in Sudan. After all Sudan is a a worthless third world country with practically no military force to worry about.

[jf55510]

Because there was a diversity among the founders and if they intended the US to be a de facto Christian nation they would have said so, would they not?

They did not want the government to establish a national religion that is the extent of religion and government in the constitution. No where in the platform does it say that the RPT wants to have government establish a national church that is Christian in nature. All they are saying that when founded the country were founded on Christian principles (which is true) and that shutting religion from government is wrong (which it is) and they want it to be known that "The party affirms freedon of religion, and rejects effots of courts and secular activists who seek to remove and deny such a rich heritage from our public lives." People are reading way too much into this.

[jf55510]

"Congress shall make no law respecting the exercise of religion.........." Notice this is inclusive of all and generic in nature. It has served us well for over 200 hundred years. No need to elaborate on it.

No need to elaborate on it? That is not what they are doing. No where in this plank or platform does it say anything about having one religion over another or one religion is superior or one religion is right and all others is wrong. All they were saying is that we were founded as a Christian nation and as such the courts should stop legislating from the bench in denying this history. It is quite clear and simple.

[F16Fighter]

"There was a diversity among the founders..."

PU-LEEZE..."Diversity among the founders"??

Yeah -- one was an Espiscopalian, another a Quaker, another a Baptist, etc....IOW, 95% Christian and 100% Euro-Western.

Would you would classify the colors 'flat white,' 'eggshell white,' and 'bright white' as "diversity"?

"...And if they intended the US to be a de facto Christian nation they would have said so, would they not?"

Man -- some of you people are thick....

Look, do yourselves a favor -- when you hear news about "renewing the Crusade" (note the capital "C") in the name of 'Christian Nation' (note the capital "N"), then you present NO logical argument.

Until then I can assure you it's safe come out from under your beds.