Hill Cool to Bush Immigration Plan

Washington Post ^ | 1/11/04 | Helen Dewar

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

President Bush's proposal to give temporary legal status to millions of undocumented immigrants is running into stiff resistance from both left and right on Capitol Hill and stands little chance of enactment this year, according to supporters and opponents. While this assessment is based on early responses, with the lobbying effort barely begun, some lawmakers say the measure's only chance of passage this year would require an all-out push by the president, and even that might not be enough.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Maybe the Democrats will have a real chance to win.

Perhaps. Bush had done one thing for me...he's getting me to vote Republican again. But it will be a vote for Tom Tancredo not Jorge.

It scares me silly to think of him in office for four more years...four years in which the restraint of re-election will not apply. I wouldn't put it past him to grant amnesty with one of his infamous signatures. Let's face it...that's what he really wants to do.

[Sabertooth]

Butt out already.

Christ, you're an annoying weasel.

Hey, don't get cranky with me.

I didn't put the draft in your icehouse.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Typical wisdom is that he hopes to get the hispanic vote...I don't see that happening,

No..the report from the streets is that legal Hispanics are furious..they're worried they'll lose their jobs to illegals.

[WRhine]

I really, really, dislike WhineR.

Hmmm. What are you going to do about it Fufkin? I dislike Socialists too and that is what you are.

[ArneFufkin]

Didn't you jokers star in the Bumfights video?

Uh ... speaking for myself ... no. WRhine is a bum, so that's possible. I never saw the tape.

I understand it was a big seller in your trailer park, however.

[Mr. Mojo]

racist

Racist? For opposing the Prez's plan? Lotta racists on the GOP side of the aisle in Congress then. And what was the final tally in this forum, 65%?

In all honesty, would you support the exact same plan if it were proposed by a 'Rat Prez?

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Yes, they will wait until they are safetly re-elected, then they will screw us.

That's why it's up to us to do our homework and vote preemptively. Vote out anyone who is likely to pass this madness. As I recall, most of our politicians got very bad marks on the illegal issue.

I'm going to attempt to nail mine to the wall. I intend to let them know I'll vote them out if they even consider this madness.

[Texasforever]

I see he is holding everyone's coats again.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

You seem to labor under the false impression that Republicans are Conservatives. LOL They haven't been for years now.

[Cultural Jihad]

WhineR is a whiner, after all.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

We could be looking at another 94. Bush has stepped into it big time, I've never seen the conservative base of the GOP this pissed off.

I agree. Just on this site alone, I'm amazed at how many have sworn to vote Bush out of office. In surfing around, most people are furious. He may well be a one-termer.

[Texasforever]

You seem to labor under the false impression that Republicans are Conservatives

You seem to misunderstand the term "conservative".

[ETERNAL WARMING]

A leader leads, he doesn't shove it off on others. He leads and faces the consequences for better or worse. Bush is a cop out artist.

[Cultural Jihad]

I would like to see more of those who become easily apoplectic over immigration reform repudiate your racist words.

[WRhine]

Uh ... speaking for myself ... no. WRhine is a bum, so that's possible. I never saw the tape.

Blathering on the Internet is just So Easy, Isn't it? Have another one Arne! Hell, post the Night Away! You Were There! LOL. You Just Didn't Play the Game.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

LOL I had planned on writing in Keyes or Third Party failing that. But Bush has now convinced me to vote Tancredo. I'm with him all the way. I'm contacting his office on Monday and volunteering time and money to his campaign.

I came up with the slogan...Shut the door in 2004 Vote Tancredo and it's his if he wants to use it.

[jocon307]

Well Kent, you are trapped in Liberal Seattle, I am trapped in Third World Hudson County, NJ. This season I couldn't find a copy of "The Cat in the Hat" that was not in both English and Spanish. I'm horrified at what Bush has proposed, not so much at the proposal itself but at all the many, many issues it left unaddressed.

I, for one, do not think the entirety of our immigration problem consists of how to legalize dishwashers, or make sure there are enough chambermaid for hotels. But you'd never know it from reading Bush's proposal. If that was the whole problem, it would be well addressed by his proposal, it isn't and that's why it's getting opposition from all sides.

So, yeah, let's go to the happy place and be glad there will be no substantial legislation on this this year. Let us hope that this half-baked campaign souffle will not keep W from getting re-elected. And let us devoutly hope that this serious issue will be addressed in a serious way sometime in 2005.

But if you are not living in one of the states that are "high-impacted" by immigration, legal and illegal, just be aware that in many places in the US today you would look around you and doubt you were in this country at all. If you need a place to check out, I reccommend West New York, NJ. While you are there try and find ONE SIGN in English. I DO NOT want to live in a Latin Civilization. The Hispanics can learn English as well as any other group, but if they don't have to, why will they?

Further, look at the campaigns to import whole villages of Africans to towns in New England, when the town resists this burden, they are denounced (gleefully!) as racists.

I have seen many people who feel the way I do denounced as racists on these threads. I am not a racist, and up until 9/11 I was practically an open border advocate. On that day I realized that our foolish failure to enforce our laws had permitted people bent on wholesale murder and mayhem into our country. People who want to kill all the Hispanics in West New York as well as you and me. Bush's proposal does not even address this, except to give some hollow promise that "the borders will be protected". He doesn't even discuss student immigration, which was the source of the 9/11 terrorists.

They all better go back to the drawing board. And I hope Bush and Co. are feeling the heat over our dissatisfaction with his poorly conceived plan.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

No Kent, you've been ranting steadily against anyone who is pissed at the illegal issue. Take a deep breath...then go back and read your posts.

[TommyUdo]

"So when does the ethnic cleansing of the gringos start? Oh, that's right, it already has But when we're all gone from Atzlan, who's gonna pay welfare to your compadres?"

As I had the good taste to receive most of my Father's Delightfully Dominant Genes, I'm not particularly worried about being cleansed (Unless it's my Wallet when the Bush Hater Party types around here get Dean Elected). However, my children have betrayed the cause of La Raza and are sporting (audible gasp) Blonde Hair and Blue eyes, like their Mother! I mean really, these Kids could star in an advert for the Schickelgruber Youth. I suppose if things get too bad, I guess we'll have to invest in some Black hair dye and Brown contacts for the kinder.

I thought you'd heard? Once all the Gringos (we're keeping the Gringas, but only the really cute one's--Oh Lawdy not miscegenation!) are 86'd (or 187'd) we won't need Welfare, because we'll all be WORKING.

And your wimmen will be pounding Tortillas in the Front yard, while the Hombres muy malos (or MuyMuy as we used to say in the Barrio of Dayton, Ohio where I grew up) sit in our Bucket Seats from the inop Monte Carlo blocking the sidewalk, twirling our mustashios and drinking Jose and tokin' on a dube...ahhhh, Libertarian Paradise....

[dagnabbit]

If Bush's Amnesty and Global Labor scheme is going to somehow contribute to national security, why is it only now being proposed, so late in the President's term?

Shouldn't this have been introduced right after 9-11?

If the plan will truly make us safer, why have we had to wait so long for its protections?

[Cultural Jihad]

Oh, I see. Loyalty to the group or to the common ideology becomes more important than fealty to the rule of law, albeit simple forum rules.

[WackyKat]

WhineR is a whiner, after all.

Is that statement ever a case of psychological projection

You are the worst whiner and abuse button cry-baby on this forum.

What is it about you that makes you averse to free speeech?

Could it be lack of confidence in your ideas or your skill in argument?

Could it be that you are continually routed in argument?

Could it be you have an ideology that is averse to free speech and spent many centuries repressing it?

[Texasforever]

Bush's proposal does not even address this, except to give some hollow promise that "the borders will be protected". He doesn't even discuss student immigration, which was the source of the 9/11 terrorists.

He didn't need to, The Patriot Act did that but I'll bet you hate the Patriot Act too.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

HINT...it ain't W. Look what he's done in three years and tell me just how he differs from a Liberal.

[Texasforever]

Could it be you have an ideology that is averse to free speech and spent many centuries repressing it?

Your speech has been very free around here so stop whining. You seem to feel that "free speech" means you can verbalize any thing and the moment you are called on it you are being censored.

[Texasforever]

HINT...it ain't W. Look what he's done in three years and tell me just how he differs from a Liberal.

Well for one thing he pisses off all the right people. When he has the loony right and the loonier left foaming at the mouth in epileptic seizures it tells me that he is spot on. I gauge a politician by the enemies he makes and all of Bush’s enemies are the ones I would choose for myself.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Oh, I see. Loyalty to the group or to the common ideology becomes more important than fealty to the rule of law, albeit simple forum rules

Strange that you uphold rules on FR yet have no problem with those who break our laws by being here illegally.

[jocon307]

No, I think I support the Patriot Act. I've actually been trying to ignore it (horrors!). What does it say about student immigration?

[Texasforever]

What does it say about student immigration?

How can you support something you haven't read? I am not here to tutor you ...it is out there. I see a lot of this around here, opinions expressed out of willful ignorance and it is troubling.

[Texasforever]

If you have google just type in "student visa patriot act" you will get many references.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

An arrogant socialist to boot. 20 quatloos on WhineR

[At _War_With_Liberals]

Bayonne bump!

[TommyUdo]

"Well for one thing he pisses off all the right people. When he has the loony right and the loonier left foaming at the mouth in epileptic seizures it tells me that he is spot on."

Reminds me of the tale SofS Colin Powell told about one of his early conversations with President Bush. (I paraphrase)

"Mr. President, I don't know what do do, people on the left say I am too conservative and the people on the right say I am too liberal.

President Bush replied, 'That's exactly where I want you.'"

President Bush's first three years have been a wonderful ride for anyone truly interested in the "Conservative" cause. If he goes down to defeat this year (which if History repeats, which it often does in US Politics, tells us he will) this time will be remembered as being one of the most exciting Political times in our History.

And if you think you've got it bad now, just wait. The AgJobs bill, which Bush's plan co-opts, will make them Citizens.

[Texasforever]

(which if History repeats, which it often does in US Politics, tells us he will)

I guess if that history is limited to his father then you could be right but real history bodes well for GW and the GOP. These folks around here calling themselves he "base" are in deep denial. Their definition of "base" was factored out in 1996 when they sat on their hands and let Dole lose to Clinton. After they did it in 92 with Perot and the 2 million that sat at home in 2000 they were written off completely. There is a new "base" in town and it is not the one the FR unappeasables are talking about.

[ArneFufkin]

In all honesty, would you support the exact same plan if it were proposed by a 'Rat Prez?

Of course! It's a reasoned, rational, realistic measure. No RAT would have the guts or integrity to propose it.

[jocon307]

Thank you, I did that, and in a sob-sister feature piece I found this:

"One provision of the Patriot Act is a mandate that all male citizens between the ages of 16 and 45 from certain countries including Indonesia undergo a special registration."

Now, this is good. But of course, females should be included also, and this should be amended right away to ensure that, otherwise it's bound to be Fatima Somebody who is the first suicide bomber on a US campus.

But where, oh where, is the provision that they leave? And why, oh why, are we so encouraging that they come here?

And are the colleges complying with this? I know they mightily resist it. The academics wish for the destruction of America more than any other group. Of course, in their over-educated stupidity they envision it will be replaced by a latte-flavored world of perfection. But I don't trust them.

[Sabertooth]

Oh, I see. Loyalty to the group or to the common ideology becomes more important than fealty to the rule of law, albeit simple forum rules.

What do you see? Where?

I saw a couple of hotheads who don't like each other much, blustering and tossing insults, and took a shot at defusing the situation.

Now I see you sniffing about fealty to forum guidelines, on the heals of your own violations of the same.

Is that what you meant by "loyalty to the group or to the common ideology?"

[TommyUdo]

Actually, I was thinking of John and John Quincy, also.

But you are correct, I think (hope?) the "Conservative" nature of the "moment of truth" in the polling booth will carry the day. The marginalization of the "base" has been factored in. I'm seeing alot of Dean Bumper Stickers, but this is CA.

I am really worried about Florida, though. I just don't think it's the "lock" people think it is, due in part, to the "Radicalization" of the Granny set, which the Demos have done well.

Geeze, I can't type anymore. Need rest. I must go and bow before the Shrine of the Bushbot, check my messages from M.E.Ch.A., send a transcipt of this to the Illuminati and hit the rack.

Later, Gentlemen, it's been a pleasure.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Agreed. There are a wholly disconcerting number of so-called "conservatives" on this very board, in fact, for whom the words "suggestion" or "proposal" (apparently) equal the word "law." This says a good deal more regarding said "conservatives," methinks, than it does about GWB. :)

I think not. IMO, President Bush even suggesting this "plan" is ludicrous and should be an eye opener to anyone that's awake. Criminals and law breakers should never be rewarded, and the mere suggestion of rewarding them should be met with contempt.

[ex-Texan]

*BUMP*!

[MattAMiller]

Because he figures he can drain people away from black market labor and into a legal and regulated revolving door. People come in, do their jobs, then leave. No free citizenship, no permanent residency, and everybody gets everything they can reasonably want. Nobody will have excuses for breaking immigration law anymore and get tough measures can be introduced.

[MattAMiller]

Probably not. The proposal is actually polling pretty well. I think it would poll better if more people understood it.

[MattAMiller]

In all honesty, would you support the exact same plan if it were proposed by a 'Rat Prez?

I would. I've supported some sort of guest worker program for some time. And letting current illegals into that system after they pay a fine doesn't strike me as anything particularly radical.

[ArneFufkin]

If the goblin had a lick of intelligence, he would have forseen how his screen name could/would be ironically manipulated in advance.

[ArneFufkin]

Is it me, or does anyone else see that Popeye's lower body is woman breasts? Including the nips?

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

But if you are not living in one of the states that are "high-impacted" by immigration, legal and illegal

Dude... you need to research and learn about coastal cities. Seattle has a huge, huge illegals situation (only with Asians, rather than Mexicans).

The only difference I see between myself and the ranters, in this regard, is: I'm not letting whacko anti-Bush paranoia -- the likes of which would not be at all out of place on the DU boards, any day, any time of day -- color my thinking or my responses.

We have (purported) "lifelong conservatives" -- sounding for all the world like so many Al Frankens, on bad acid -- shrieking thatan anti-abortion, anti-tax, anti-terrorism President "isn't conservative." If that doesn't strike you as legitimately deranged... I honestly don't know what conceivably could.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

No Kent, you've been ranting steadily against anyone who is pissed at the illegal issue. Take a deep breath...then go back and read your posts.

BZZZZZZT! Nope, sorry. Apparently, "Reading Comprehension Skills" isn't working out for you, as a game category. Care to try "Remedial English," instead...?

The only "ranting" (incorrect word choice on your part) I've done, to date, has been re: those bull goose looney enough to post repeatedly to the effect that GWB is a "traitor" and a "war criminal," among other imbecilities. The fact that you, apparently, don't regard those as "rantings" says all anyone need know about where you're coming from, in that regard.

Better idea: you take that "deep breath"... and then go back and read the postings to which I initially made reference. (They're only all over these boards, is all.) And then ask yourself if you really, truly want to be associated, ideologically, with the sorts of folks who make Ross Perot, at his absolute craziest, genuinely sound sane.

The day I feel the need to take advice from the online derange-os, re: whether to speak up or pipe down is the day they find you trolling the wharf for sailors, tarted up like Britney Spears. Whether or not that happens today, tomorrow or whenever is up to you, sparky.

[BlackbirdSST]

The word "clueless" does suggest itself here, doesn't it...? :)

In your "real world" yes, it describes you to "T". I guess you think you'll sway opinion and VOTE's by being a demeaning troll, but you'd be wrong, regardless of which world you occupy. Blackbird.

[BlackbirdSST]

In a perfect world, I wouldn't be forced to read post after blathering, empty-headed post from (*kaff*kaff*) "lifelong conservatives" referring to our principled anti-abortion, pro-tax cut, pro-defense Republican president as a "socialist," "a "liberal" or a "treasonous anti-conservative war criminal," right here on an ostensibly conservative message board, either. Your point being what, precisely...?

More stoopid comment's from the clueless. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to read blathering post from so called Conservatives, read that lefty infiltrators, harping and carping and championing Big Government Socialist. Welcome to the real world. Blackbird.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

In your "real world" yes, it describes you to "T". I guess you think you'll sway opinion and VOTE's by being a demeaning troll, but you'd be wrong, regardless of which world you occupy.

Wipe your chin, tot.