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Pope wants new international order to keep peace
Reuters | January 1, 2004 | Claire Soares

Posted on 01/01/2004 5:55:35 AM PST by HAL9000

VATICAN CITY, Jan 1 (Reuters) - The world needs a "new international order" to solve its conflicts and ensure peace, Pope John Paul said in his New Year's Day address on Thursday.

The ghosts of 2003 -- when the United States invaded Iraq without United Nations approval -- dominated the pope's first speech of 2004.

"More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations," the 83-year-old pontiff said at a mass in St Peter's Basilica.

"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress," he added.

Speaking at Christendom's largest church, the pope urged people not to lose hope of finding peace in the Holy Land, which the Vatican feels is vital to winning the war on terror.

"The land in which Jesus was born sadly continues to live in a dramatic condition. And in other parts of the world sparks of violence and conflict have not been extinguished either. But we need to persevere and not bow to the temptation of losing hope."

Turning to Africa, the pope paid tribute to his Burundi ambassador, Michael Courtney, killed on Monday in an ambush the army has blamed on rebels who have refused to join a peace process to end a 10-year conflict.

"(He) was tragically killed...while he was going about his mission of promoting dialogue and reconciliation. We pray for him and hope his example and sacrifice will bear the fruits of peace in Burundi and the world," the pope said.

The leader of the world's one billion Catholics, who suffers from Parkinson's disease that makes it difficult for him to talk, seemed alert and read all of his homily in a clear voice.

But it is unclear what 2004 holds for him. For the first time since his election in 1978, the pope enters the new year with no firm plans for travel, although there have been some invitations.

He was particularly weak on his last foreign trip, a visit to Slovakia in September, when aides had to read most of his addresses for him.



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: johnpaulii; newnwo; pope; un; unitednations
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To: pctech
Your exactly right.
"And I (John) beheld another beast coming up out of the earth,and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast(world government) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast" Rev.13:12&13
251 posted on 01/01/2004 10:27:52 AM PST by Victorious
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To: Robert Drobot
And while I'm at it, all of you who are 'your own pope,' why are you awaiting a pronouncement from Pope John Paul II? Go Christian soldiers, board an airplane for the middle-east, TO WAR! No need to wait for a catholic to tell you what you ought to do.
252 posted on 01/01/2004 10:29:12 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: HAL9000
It's fascinating that this entire thread is based on Reuters' interpretation of the Pope's message, and not an analysis of the actual message.

That said, it seems that Reuters wasn't far off the mark, unfortunately. I admire this Pope, but find it extremely disappointing that he contributes not much more than wishful thinking to a world torn by terrorism and slaughter in the name of religion.

I would suggest to His Holiness that the UN has failed miserably to live up to its lofty goals, and has instead become a corrupt institution intent on leveling the world to its lowest common denominator, morally, socially and economically. To issue the statement that follows, without referencing the failures of the UN -- other than a vague reference to its "limitations and delays" -- is nothing short of foolishishness.

ZENIT - The World Seen From Rome


Code: ZE03121603

Date: 2003-12-16

Pope's Message for World Day of Peace

"An Ever Timely Commitment: Teaching Peace"

VATICAN CITY, DEC. 16, 2003 (Zenit.org).- Here is a translation of John Paul II's message for the World Day of Peace to be observed Jan. 1.

* * *

Message of His Holiness Pope John Paul II
For the Celebration of the World Day of Peace
1 January 2004

An Ever Timely Commitment: Teaching Peace

My words are addressed to you, the Leaders of the nations, who have the duty of promoting peace!

To you, Jurists, committed to tracing paths to peaceful agreement, preparing conventions and treaties which strengthen international legality!

To you, Teachers of the young, who on all continents work tirelessly to form consciences in the ways of understanding and dialogue!

And to you too, men and women tempted to turn to the unacceptable means of terrorism and thus compromise at its root the very cause for which you are fighting!

All of you, hear the humble appeal of the Successor of Peter who cries out: today too, at the beginning of the New Year 2004, peace remains possible. And if peace is possible, it is also a duty!

A practical initiative

1. My first Message for the World Day of Peace, in the beginning of January 1979, was centered on the theme: "To Reach Peace, Teach Peace."

That New Year's Message followed in the path traced by Pope Paul VI of venerable memory, who had wished to celebrate on January 1 each year a World Day of Prayer for Peace. I recall the words of the late Pontiff for the New Year 1968: "It would be Our desire, then, that this celebration take place each year as a sign of hope and promise, at the beginning of the calendar which measures and guides the journey of human life through time, in order that Peace, with its just and salutary equilibrium, will dominate the unfolding of history yet to come."(1)

Faithful to the wishes expressed by my venerable Predecessor on the Chair of Peter, each year I have continued this noble tradition by dedicating the first day of the civil year to reflection and to prayer for peace in the world.

In the twenty-five years of Pontificate which the Lord has thus far granted me, I have not failed to speak out before the Church and the world, inviting believers and all persons of good will to take up the cause of peace and to help bring about this fundamental good, thereby assuring the world a better future, one marked by peaceful coexistence and mutual respect.

Once more this year I feel bound to invite all men and women, on every continent, to celebrate a new World Day of Peace. Humanity needs now more than ever to rediscover the path of concord, overwhelmed as it is by selfishness and hatred, by the thirst for power and the lust for vengeance.

The science of peace

2. The eleven Messages addressed to the world by Pope Paul VI progressively mapped out the path to be followed in attaining the ideal of peace. Slowly but surely the great Pontiff set forth the various chapters of a true "science of peace". It can be helpful to recall the themes of the Messages bequeathed to us by Pope Paul VI for this occasion.(2) Each of these Messages continues to be timely today. Indeed, before the tragedy of the wars which at the beginning of the Third Millennium are still causing bloodshed throughout the world, especially in the Middle East, they take on at times the tone of prophetic admonishments.

A primer of peace

3. For my part, throughout these twenty-five years of my Pontificate, I have sought to advance along the path marked out by my venerable Predecessor. At the dawn of each new year I have invited people of good will to reflect, in the light of reason and of faith, on different aspects of an orderly coexistence.

The result has been a synthesis of teaching about peace which is a kind of primer on this fundamental theme: a primer easy to understand by those who are well-disposed, but at the same time quite demanding for anyone concerned for the future of humanity.(3)

The various colors of the prism of peace have now been amply illustrated. What remains now is to work to ensure that the ideal of a peaceful coexistence, with its specific requirements, will become part of the consciousness of individuals and peoples. We Christians see the commitment to educate ourselves and others to peace as something at the very heart of our religion. For Christians, in fact, to proclaim peace is to announce Christ who is "our peace" (Eph 2:14); it is to announce his Gospel, which is a "Gospel of peace" (Eph 6:15); it is to call all people to the beatitude of being "peacemakers" (cf. Mt 5:9).

Teaching peace

4. In my Message for the World Day of Peace on 1 January 1979 I made this appeal: To Reach Peace, Teach Peace. Today that appeal is more urgent than ever, because men and women, in the face of the tragedies which continue to afflict humanity, are tempted to yield to fatalism, as if peace were an unattainable ideal.

The Church, on the other hand, has always taught and continues today to teach a very simple axiom: peace is possible. Indeed, the Church does not tire of repeating that peace is a duty. It must be built on the four pillars indicated by Blessed John XXIII in his Encyclical "Pacem in Terris": truth, justice, love and freedom. A duty is thus imposed upon all those who love peace: that of teaching these ideals to new generations, in order to prepare a better future for all mankind.

Teaching legality

5. In this task of teaching peace, there is a particularly urgent need to lead individuals and peoples to respect the international order and to respect the commitments assumed by the Authorities which legitimately represent them. Peace and international law are closely linked to each another: law favors peace.

From the very dawn of civilization, developing human communities sought to establish agreements and pacts which would avoid the arbitrary use of force and enable them to seek a peaceful solution of any controversies which might arise. Alongside the legal systems of the individual peoples there progressively grew up another set of norms which came to be known as "ius gentium" (the law of the nations). With the passage of time, this body of law gradually expanded and was refined in the light of the historical experiences of the different peoples.

This process was greatly accelerated with the birth of modern States. From the sixteenth century on, jurists, philosophers and theologians were engaged in developing the various headings of international law and in grounding it in the fundamental postulates of the natural law. This process led with increasing force to the formulation of universal principles which are prior to and superior to the internal law of States, and which take into account the unity and the common vocation of the human family.

Central among all these is surely the principle that "pacta sunt servanda": accords freely signed must be honored. This is the pivotal and exceptionless presupposition of every relationship between responsible contracting parties. The violation of this principle necessarily leads to a situation of illegality and consequently to friction and disputes which would not fail to have lasting negative repercussions. It is appropriate to recall this fundamental rule, especially at times when there is a temptation to appeal to the law of force rather than to the force of law.

One of these moments was surely the drama which humanity experienced during the Second World War: an abyss of violence, destruction and death unlike anything previously known.

Respect for law

6. That war, with the horrors and the appalling violations of human dignity which it occasioned, led to a profound renewal of the international legal order. The defense and promotion of peace were set at the center of a broadly modernized system of norms and institutions. The task of watching over global peace and security and with encouraging the efforts of States to preserve and guarantee these fundamental goods of humanity was entrusted by Governments to an organization established for this purpose -- the United Nations Organization -- with a Security Council invested with broad discretionary power. Pivotal to the system was the prohibition of the use of force. This prohibition, according to the well-known Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter, makes provision for only two exceptions. The first confirms the natural right to legitimate defense, to be exercised in specific ways and in the context of the United Nations: and consequently also within the traditional limits of necessity and proportionality.

The other exception is represented by the system of collective security, which gives the Security Council competence and responsibility for the preservation of peace, with power of decision and ample discretion.

The system developed with the United Nations Charter was meant "to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind."(4) In the decades which followed, however, the division of the international community into opposing blocs, the cold war in one part of the world, the outbreak of violent conflicts in other areas and the phenomenon of terrorism produced a growing break with the ideas and expectations of the immediate post-war period.

A new international order

7. It must be acknowledged, however, that the United Nations Organization, even with limitations and delays due in great part to the failures of its members, has made a notable contribution to the promotion of respect for human dignity, the freedom of peoples and the requirements of development, thus preparing the cultural and institutional soil for the building of peace.

The activity of national Governments will be greatly encouraged by the realization that the ideals of the United Nations have become widely diffused, particularly through the practical gestures of solidarity and peace made by the many individuals also involved in Non-Governmental Organizations and in Movements for human rights.

This represents a significant incentive for a reform which would enable the United Nations Organization to function effectively for the pursuit of its own stated ends, which remain valid: "humanity today is in a new and more difficult phase of its genuine development. It needs a greater degree of international ordering."(5) States must consider this objective as a clear moral and political obligation which calls for prudence and determination. Here I would repeat the words of encouragement which I spoke in 1995: "The United Nations Organization needs to rise more and more above the cold status of an administrative institution and to become a moral center where all the nations of the world feel at home and develop a shared awareness of being, as it were, a family of nations."(6)

The deadly scourge of terrorism

8. Today international law is hard pressed to provide solutions to situations of conflict arising from the changed landscape of the contemporary world. These situations of conflict frequently involve agents which are not themselves States but rather entities derived from the collapse of States, or connected to independence movements, or linked to trained criminal organizations. A legal system made up of norms established down the centuries as a means of disciplining relations between sovereign States finds it difficult to deal with conflicts which also involve entities incapable of being considered States in the traditional sense. This is particularly the case with terrorist groups.

The scourge of terrorism has become more virulent in recent years and has produced brutal massacres which have in turn put even greater obstacles in the way of dialogue and negotiation, increasing tensions and aggravating problems, especially in the Middle East.

Even so, if it is to be won, the fight against terrorism cannot be limited solely to repressive and punitive operations. It is essential that the use of force, even when necessary, be accompanied by a courageous and lucid analysis of the reasons behind terrorist attacks. The fight against terrorism must be conducted also on the political and educational levels: on the one hand, by eliminating the underlying causes of situations of injustice which frequently drive people to more desperate and violent acts; and on the other hand, by insisting on an education inspired by respect for human life in every situation: the unity of the human race is a more powerful reality than any contingent divisions separating individuals and people.

In the necessary fight against terrorism, international law is now called to develop legal instruments provided with effective means for the prevention, monitoring and suppression of crime. In any event, democratic governments know well that the use of force against terrorists cannot justify a renunciation of the principles of the rule of law. Political decisions would be unacceptable were they to seek success without consideration for fundamental human rights, since the end never justifies the means.

The contribution of the Church

9. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God" (Mt 5:9). How could this saying, which is a summons to work in the immense field of peace, find such a powerful echo in the human heart if it did not correspond to an irrepressible yearning and hope dwelling within us? And why else would peacemakers be called children of God, if not because God is by nature the God of peace? Precisely for this reason, in the message of salvation which the Church proclaims throughout the world, there are doctrinal elements of fundamental importance for the development of the principles needed for peaceful coexistence between nations.

History teaches that the building of peace cannot prescind from respect for an ethical and juridical order, in accordance with the ancient adage: "Serva ordinem et ordo servabit te" (preserve order and order will preserve you). International law must ensure that the law of the more powerful does not prevail. Its essential purpose is to replace "the material force of arms with the moral force of law,"(7) providing appropriate sanctions for transgressors and adequate reparation for victims. This must also be applicable to those government leaders who violate with impunity human dignity and rights while hiding behind the unacceptable pretext that it is a matter of questions internal to their State.

In an Address which I gave to the Diplomatic Corps accredited to the Holy See on 13 January 1997, I observed that international law is a primary means for pursuing peace: "For a long time international law has been a law of war and peace. I believe that it is called more and more to become exclusively a law of peace, conceived in justice and solidarity. And in this context morality must inspire law; morality can even assume a preparatory role in the making of law, to the extent that it shows the path of what is right and good."(8)

Down the centuries, the teaching of the Church, drawing upon the philosophical and theological reflection of many Christian thinkers, has made a significant contribution in directing international law to the common good of the whole human family. Especially in more recent times the Popes have not hesitated to stress the importance of international law as a pledge of peace, in the conviction that "the harvest of justice is sown in peace by those who make peace" (Jas 3:18). This is the path which the Church, employing the means proper to her, is committed to following, in the perennial light of the Gospel and with the indispensable help of prayer.

The civilization of love

10. At the conclusion of these considerations, I feel it necessary to repeat that, for the establishment of true peace in the world, justice must find its fulfillment in charity. Certainly law is the first road leading to peace, and people need to be taught to respect that law. Yet one does not arrive at the end of this road unless justice is complemented by love. Justice and love sometimes appear to be opposing forces. In fact they are but two faces of a single reality, two dimensions of human life needing to be mutually integrated. Historical experience shows this to be true. It shows how justice is frequently unable to free itself from rancor, hatred and even cruelty. By itself, justice is not enough. Indeed, it can even betray itself, unless it is open to that deeper power which is love.

For this reason I have often reminded Christians and all persons of good will that forgiveness is needed for solving the problems of individuals and peoples. There is no peace without forgiveness! I say it again here, as my thoughts turn in particular to the continuing crisis in Palestine and the Middle East: a solution to the grave problems which for too long have caused suffering for the peoples of those regions will not be found until a decision is made to transcend the logic of simple justice and to be open also to the logic of forgiveness.

Christians know that love is the reason for God's entering into relationship with man. And it is love which he awaits as man's response. Consequently, love is also the loftiest and most noble form of relationship possible between human beings. Love must thus enliven every sector of human life and extend to the international order. Only a humanity in which there reigns the "civilization of love" will be able to enjoy authentic and lasting peace.

At the beginning of a New Year I wish to repeat to women and men of every language, religion and culture the ancient maxim: "Omnia vincit amor" (Love conquers all). Yes, dear Brothers and Sisters throughout the world, in the end love will be victorious! Let everyone be committed to hastening this victory. For it is the deepest hope of every human heart.

From the Vatican, 8 December 2003.

JOHN PAUL II

* * *

Notes

(1) Insegnamenti, V (1967), 620.

(2) 1968: 1 January: World Day of Peace
1969: The Promotion of Human Rights, the Road to Peace
1970: Education for Peace Through Reconciliation
1971: Every Man is My Brother
1972: If You Want Peace, Work for Justice
1973: Peace is Possible
1974: Peace Depends on You Too
1975: Reconciliation, The Way to Peace
1976: The Real Weapons of Peace
1977: If You Want Peace, Defend Life
1978: No to Violence, Yes to Peace

(3) These are the themes of the successive twenty-five World Days of Peace:
1979: To Reach Peace, Teach Peace
1980: Truth, the Power of Peace
1981: To Serve Peace, Respect Freedom
1982: Peace: A Gift of God Entrusted to Us!
1983: Dialogue for Peace, A Challenge for Our Time
1984: From a New Heart, Peace is Born
1985: Peace and Youth Go Forward Together
1986: Peace is a Value with No Frontiers North-South, East-West: Only One Peace
1987: Development and Solidarity: Two Keys to Peace
1988: Religious Freedom, Condition for Peace
1989: To Build Peace, Respect Minorities
1990: Peace with God the Creator, Peace with All of Creation
1991: If You Want Peace, Respect the Conscience of Every Person
1992: Believers United in Building Peace
1993: If You Want Peace, Reach Out to the Poor
1994: The Family Creates the Peace of the Human Family
1995: Women: Teachers of Peace
1996: Let Us Give Children a Future of Peace
1997: Offer Forgiveness and Receive Peace
1998: From the Justice of Each Comes Peace for All
1999: Respect for Human Rights: The Secret of True Peace
2000: "Peace on Earth to Those Whom God Loves!"
2001: Dialogue Between Cultures for a Civilization of Love and Peace
2002: No Peace Without Justice, No Justice Without Peace
2003: "Pacem in Terris": A Permanent Commitment

(4) Preamble.

(5) John Paul II, Encyclical Letter "Sollicitudo Rei Socialis," 43: AAS 80 (1988), 575.

(6) Address to the Fiftieth General Assembly of the United Nations, New York (5 October 1995), 14: Insegnamenti, XVIII/2 (1995), 741.

(7) Benedict XV, Appeal to the Leaders of the Warring Nations, 1 August 1917: AAS 9 (1917), 422.

(8) No. 4: Insegnamenti, XX/1 (1997), 97.

[Translation issued by Vatican press office]

253 posted on 01/01/2004 10:29:23 AM PST by browardchad
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To: HAL9000
The world needs a "new international order" to solve its conflicts and ensure peace, Pope John Paul said in his New Year's Day address on Thursday. The ghosts of 2003 -- when the United States invaded Iraq without United Nations approval -- dominated the pope's first speech of 2004.

"More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations," the 83-year-old pontiff said at a mass in St Peter's Basilica.

"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress," he added.

What is he babbling about ?

One would think he was a Democrat candidate for President in 2004 rather than a disciple of Yeshua.

254 posted on 01/01/2004 10:30:49 AM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: HAL9000
"The land in which Jesus was born sadly continues to live in a dramatic condition. And in other parts of the world sparks of violence and conflict have not been extinguished either." - Pope JP2

Understatement. And what do the overwhelming majority of these "other parts" have in common? Islam.

255 posted on 01/01/2004 10:32:01 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Cap'n Crunch
Go Christian soldiers, board an airplane for the middle-east, TO WAR! No need to wait for a catholic to tell you what you ought to do.

Are you crazy?
They wouldn't let me take along my carry-on luggage: .50 cal sniper rifle or my hand grenades. What's the fun in that?

Maybe Swissair would allow it, their planes are already properly marked.
I'll get back to you.

256 posted on 01/01/2004 10:32:55 AM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Tao Yin
Amen to all you said. The truth is wonderful!
257 posted on 01/01/2004 10:33:55 AM PST by Victorious
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To: HAL9000
"More than ever we need a new international order "
---
Now more than ever we need to admit we're sinners and acknowledge that the LORD is God, that He is in control of this earth, and not men.
"The earth is the LORD's and all it contains, the world and those who dwell in it."Ps24:1
"Let all the earth fear the LORD." Ps 33:8

the pope urged people not to lose hope
---
Our only hope is in the LORD and His Christ, and not in men. "Jesus Christ, who is our hope" 1Tim1:1
258 posted on 01/01/2004 10:37:06 AM PST by Gal.5:1
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To: HAL9000
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

YUK!

Perhaps the Pope is going to be on the side of the AC after all. Sigh.

This also lends credence to Kathleen Keating's assertions and research.

http://www.finalwarningthebook.com/kp723.shtml

and

http://www.finalwarningthebook.com/transcripts.shtml

I think Kathleen puts entirely too much emphasis in a lot of mere curiosities. But, I think her research has also turned up some interesting pieces of the larger puzzle.

I suppose it was inevitable that the Pope would come out in favor of the world goernment--given that there's going to be a ONE WORLD religion.

I noticed with a chilling feeling last night a music video add for some sort of NIMMIRRI sp? music which was again--a big slick sale for a world government. Evidently the march toward a full court public press for the world government has begun.

Very sobering.
259 posted on 01/01/2004 10:39:36 AM PST by Quix (Particularly quite true conspiracies are rarely proven until it's too late to do anything about them)
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To: Cap'n Crunch; BlackElk
You say you support Black Elk's posts and his orthodoxy. Do you agree with his sig line?:

The auto-da-fe is God's chosen way to purge sin from the land.!)

Do you know what an auto-da-fe is?

Do you agree with his sentiments in Post 134 supporting the Inquisition(even today)?

Do you think the Catholic church has a history of supporting free speech and freedom of religion(until this century, when it was forced to)?

260 posted on 01/01/2004 10:43:21 AM PST by WackyKat
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To: browardchad
Hurray for the Holy Father! Right on the money again as usual.

Gee, I guess he's going to get in hot-water from all sides, he asks for terrorists to desist, he says the UN has had failures...now he asks for peace and forgiveness.

I hope we listen.

261 posted on 01/01/2004 10:43:59 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: WackyKat
Are you aware that roughage does wonders for one's view of the world generally?

Only the pervert contingent would be so obsessed with relentlessly bashing the Catholic Church. And in such an embarrassingly ignorant way.

262 posted on 01/01/2004 10:47:02 AM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Publius6961
Come on, blackmarket and what not. Heck I bet you could pick up near anything you wanted over there. Maybe even some-of-them-there elusive Weapons of Mass Destruction that we're everywhere once upon a time.
263 posted on 01/01/2004 10:47:25 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: G.Mason
What is it about getting old that makes cowards of us all.

New York Yankees bench coach
Don Zimmer is one tough senior with courage..

It's not every day that you watch a baseball game and see a fight break out between a 32-year-old pitcher and a 72-year-old bench coach.


Win or Lose we all need friendship.

____________________

Pope John Paul II knows if he give the word
to attack slims all hell would break out.
JP2 is playing it coooooool!

I see good cop (the pope)

bad cop (G. W. Bush)

All Hell Has Broke Out!

264 posted on 01/01/2004 10:48:40 AM PST by Major_Risktaker
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To: Publius6961
Regular bowel movements lead to a better understanding of the Papacy?


265 posted on 01/01/2004 10:50:26 AM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: WackyKat
I'm afeered I'm a bumpkin' and I have absolutely no idear what an auto-buffet is.

I think that the Inquisition has been much maligned and needs to be studied and information read from the Catholic point of view rather than the overwhelmingly protestant distortion of the Inquisition.

And lastly, I asked you for the examples kind sir.

266 posted on 01/01/2004 10:51:56 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Bluntpoint
Regular bowel movements lead to a better understanding of the Papacy?

Well, at least a clearer understanding of the issues. Everything does not seem so brown.

267 posted on 01/01/2004 10:57:04 AM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Cap'n Crunch
Hurray for the Holy Father! Right on the money again as usual.

Gee, I guess he's going to get in hot-water from all sides, he asks for terrorists to desist, he says the UN has had failures...now he asks for peace and forgiveness.

I hope we listen.

I'll join you in a prayer for that Cap'n.

I was at loss finding the slightest trace of purported senility in this work.  How about you?
FReegards.

268 posted on 01/01/2004 10:57:48 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: Publius6961
Brown sometimes delivers all the answers.


269 posted on 01/01/2004 11:02:31 AM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: HAL9000
If anybody should know about the religion of peace's terroristic ways it should be the pope since he got shot by a muslim.
270 posted on 01/01/2004 11:04:13 AM PST by Trytophan Man (Merry Christmas!)
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To: GirlShortstop
Here's one of my faves:

Hail thou Star of Ocean, portal of the sky
Ever Virgin Mother, of the Lord Most High.
Oh, by Gabriel's Ave, uttered long ago,
Eva's name reversing, established peace below.
Break the captives fetter's, light on blindness pour,
all our ills expelling, every bliss emplore.
Show thyself a Mother, offer Him our sighs, who for us Incarnate, did not thee dispise.
Virgin of all virgins, to thy shelter take us, gentlest of the gentle, chaste and gentle make us.
Still as on we journey, help our weak endeavor,
till with thee and Jesus, we rejoice forever.
To the highest heaven, to the Almighty Three, Father, Son and Spirit, one same Glory Be.

I thought the Holy Father's letter was brilliant. What a great Pope we have. Peace be with you! Happy New Year!

271 posted on 01/01/2004 11:10:07 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: HAL9000
More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations
This man is too far past his prime and now advocates for that which would imprison people. How very sad.
272 posted on 01/01/2004 11:13:34 AM PST by Libertina (May God bless us FReepers with abundance and peace in 2004!)
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To: Cap'n Crunch; BlackElk
Lot's of fussing going on here but nobody's disagreeing with the message -- just the messenger.
The world needs a "new international order" to solve its conflicts and ensure peace,...

"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress," ...

... the pope urged people not to lose hope of finding peace in the Holy Land, which the Vatican feels is vital to winning the war on terror.

The U.N. is a complete and utter failure, a "new order" implies something other than an existing order. So we see here that JPII is in essence advocating for an international coalition (NOT the UN) to combat terrorism and bring pease to the middle east.

An order that can find solutions to today's problems; i.e., a coalition of forces to combat international terrorism. Maybe something just like this one:

The Proliferation Security Initiative reflects the need for a more dynamic, active approach to the global proliferation problem. It envisions partnerships of states working in concert, employing their national capabilities to develop a broad range of legal, diplomatic, economic, military and other tools to interdict threatening shipments of WMD and missile-related equipment and technologies.
A new order that produces results just like this one: U.S. find led to Gadhafi decision.

Hard not to agree with this message.

273 posted on 01/01/2004 11:15:22 AM PST by cebadams (much better than ezra)
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To: cebadams
Sounds good to me.
274 posted on 01/01/2004 11:20:04 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: cebadams; Cap'n Crunch
Hard not to agree with this message.

I agree that is the case, but for some, not all.
Some are finding meanness and flame sparks to be more enjoyable; perhaps easier than reading, understanding, and agreement on truth.
Happy New Year and FReegards.

275 posted on 01/01/2004 11:27:05 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I'm afeered I'm a bumpkin' and I have absolutely no idear what an auto-buffet is. I think that the Inquisition has been much maligned and needs to be studied and information read from the Catholic point of view rather than the overwhelmingly protestant distortion of the Inquisition.

"auto da fe(act of faith) is the term the Catholic church used to refer to burning someone at the stake for a religious offense such as heresy.

Black Elk supports that- you support Black Elk and say you agree with his views.

Therefore, you think dissenters from Catholicism should be burned at the stake

If you don't even know a basic concept like "auto da fe", you obviously don't know anything about the Inquisition at all.

As to your request for specific examples of how the Catholic church suppressed free speech, free thought, and freedom of religion -how about Giordano Bruno, Galileo, William Tyndale,the witch burnings,the torture and execution of many thousands of lesser known dissenters, the masssacre of the French Protestants,the Counter Reformation Wars,the Inquisition and the whole history of medieval and early modern Europe, of which you apparently know very little.

276 posted on 01/01/2004 11:35:38 AM PST by WackyKat
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To: Cap'n Crunch
".... your own country has given Carte Blanche to the murder of children for 30 years."

Don't confuse the American Citizen with a cooped government pretending to represent him.

The rape of Waco, and the current rape of national identity do not reflect America's ethical standards, or our defense of our borders, our language or our national character.

277 posted on 01/01/2004 11:39:54 AM PST by Robert Drobot (God, family, country. All else is meaningless.)
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Comment #278 Removed by Moderator

To: WackyKat; Cap'n Crunch
Ummm -- witch burnings?? Weren't those the Puritans?
279 posted on 01/01/2004 11:41:14 AM PST by cebadams (much better than ezra)
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To: HAL9000
VATICAN CITY, Jan 1 (Reuters) - The world needs a "new international order" to solve its conflicts and ensure peace, Pope John Paul said in his New Year's Day address on Thursday.

And let me guess...they should wear "Blue Helmets", and their leader will come from the "Middle East"...and their mandate will supercede the US Constitution!

Welcome to the End Times...coming soon!

Hey, Pope...will this new "International Order" have any ability to prosecute Kid-Touching Priests?! Can they bust Bishops, Cardinals and Arch-Bishops for Complicity and Perjury?

I shant hold my breath waiting for that answer!

Enough from this Robo-Pope...just bring on the Anti-Christ and let's get it DONE already! I'm sick of his Rah-Rah cheerleaders here on FR...saying anytime something comes out of the RCC that is antithetical to what the Bible and reality say, that it's just "an isolated incident"...and that any pro-Homo priest propoganda is "just an aberration"....is THIS enough to show that view is misguided? Can we now take off the blinders, and maybe those members of the RCC that are appalled can begin to take back their Church from the "Lavendar Mafia"?!

280 posted on 01/01/2004 11:44:31 AM PST by Itzlzha (The avalanche has already started...it is too late for the pebbles to vote!)
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To: BlackElk
The Inquisition by Edward Burman is just one of countless works showcasing the brand of Catholicism you thoroughly delight yourself.

Jesuits ceased being Catholic? HAHA !

Seems like you're busy making lists for "the day." Scary thought, Himmler! Question: When will you enforce your mass extermination program?

The USA does not accept papal bulls and edicts, nor does it accept Inquisitional defacto powers by virtue of our constitution and laws. And I thank God everyday for my forefathers and Providence! I will pray To God Almighty that He will thwart every future attempt at such plans; God's Will be done as always.

Other than that I hope you have lovely day!
281 posted on 01/01/2004 11:44:54 AM PST by sully777 ("Not a thought lifted itself from Chance's brain. Peace filled his chest." -- Being There)
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To: cebadams
Ummm -- witch burnings?? Weren't those the Puritans

No. the American Puritans did not burn anyone-the Salem executions were by hanging and crushing with stones in one case.

All of which pales in comparison to the centuries of executions and extra-judicial killings of tens of thousands of people for "heresy" by the Catholic church in Europe.

But don't get the mistaken idea I'm defending Protestant outrages against human freedom , I'm not

282 posted on 01/01/2004 11:46:10 AM PST by WackyKat
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To: sully777
Seems like you're busy making lists for "the day." Scary thought, Himmler! Question: When will you enforce your mass extermination program? The USA does not accept papal bulls and edicts, nor does it accept Inquisitional defacto powers by virtue of our constitution and laws.

It's unbelievable that people who think like this still exist in 21st century America, isn't it?

I would dismiss them as the fringe kooks that they are, except for the existence of shadowy and influential groups like Opus Dei, which actually do have access to power

283 posted on 01/01/2004 11:50:53 AM PST by WackyKat
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To: HAL9000
Being the Pope, this man should realize that what he is wishing for will never happen until Jesus Christ returns.
284 posted on 01/01/2004 11:57:38 AM PST by F.J. Mitchell
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To: F.J. Mitchell
...this man should realize that what he is wishing for will never happen until Jesus

If we adopt that mantra, and do not act, do not speak out, and walk away with a defeated and fatalistic attitude, nothing will get better here; we'll end up expanding the divide between us and God.  That can't be what Our Lord wanted.

FReegards and Happy New Year.

285 posted on 01/01/2004 12:10:38 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: sinkspur; BlackElk
The Pope wants something to counter the United States and Britain. Surely you see that

Actually, no.

It is clear that the Pope is not comfortable with the present situation; OTOH, it is NOT clear that he "seeks an alternative" to US/Brit domination.

What he DOES seek is a way for the US to extricate itself from taking the lead and thus becoming a target.

He's trying to HELP us, Sinky.

286 posted on 01/01/2004 12:22:24 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: GirlShortstop
I am not saying we should not speak out and take a stand, against the evil around the world, I am all for that. THat souped up version of a UN like organization the Pope is speaking of would be more evil than the evil he hopes to put an end to and work against genuine efforts to make things better. Just as the UN has been nothing but an aider and abettor for the likes of the Saddam's of the world, while ever a pain in the rear and a road block to our country and our real allies in this war on terror.
287 posted on 01/01/2004 12:23:34 PM PST by F.J. Mitchell
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To: avenir
I think the Pope knows scripture pretty well--

But while recognizing that there will "always be" poverty, wars, etc., he cannot simply resign himself and the Church to accepting, apathetically, the status quo.

That would be gross dereliction of duty.
288 posted on 01/01/2004 12:26:03 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: F.J. Mitchell
THat souped up version of a UN like organization the Pope is speaking of would be more evil than the evil he hopes to put an end to and work against genuine efforts to make things better. Just as the UN has been nothing but an aider and abettor for the likes of the Saddam's of the world, while ever a pain in the rear and a road block to our country and our real allies in this war on terror.

I see your point.  I must counter however that in its entirety (post 253), Pope John Paul II's message is not that "Reuterized"  :-)
FReegards.

289 posted on 01/01/2004 12:29:45 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: nmh
Aren't you playing in the FreeTrade threads?

At least you are consistent. You have no regard for humans on the FreeTrade issue, and no regard for the Pope on this one.

Just co-incidence that the RC Church is the single most significant promoter of human rights worldwide, eh?

No wonder you don't like JPII. He represents everything you can't stand.
290 posted on 01/01/2004 12:30:22 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: WackyKat
But don't get the mistaken idea I'm defending Protestant outrages against human freedom , I'm not

Protestant basher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

291 posted on 01/01/2004 12:31:26 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: F.J. Mitchell
Being the Pope, this man should realize that what he is wishing for will never happen until Jesus Christ returns.
---


By his own words, he obviously does not realize this, or want to anyway, but what he is wishing for, he desires to come by the power of men.
292 posted on 01/01/2004 12:32:06 PM PST by Gal.5:1
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To: WackyKat
I would dismiss them as the fringe kooks that they are, except for the existence of shadowy and influential groups like Opus Dei, which actually do have access to power

Are they the ones behind "the theocracy" you constantly have your unies in a knot about?

293 posted on 01/01/2004 12:33:10 PM PST by Hacksaw (theocratic Confederate flag waving loyalty oath supporter)
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To: ninenot
Is JPII anything like the Mustang II? That was pretty "doggey!"


294 posted on 01/01/2004 12:35:11 PM PST by Bluntpoint
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To: HAL9000
Did the Pope ever read Revelations?
295 posted on 01/01/2004 12:39:40 PM PST by mabelkitty
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To: WackyKat
Not only is another Inquisition a good idea: but you've just made it clear that there will be at least ONE suspect brought to trial.
296 posted on 01/01/2004 12:41:31 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: WackyKat
I would dismiss them as the fringe kooks that they are, except for the existence of shadowy and influential groups like Opus Dei, which actually do have access to power

Sounds like you'd fit in well in China's government, where you could help weed out these "shadowy and influential" groups. After all, atheists have such a good track record when they are given power, huh WackyKr.

297 posted on 01/01/2004 12:42:58 PM PST by Hacksaw (theocratic Confederate flag waving loyalty oath supporter)
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To: WackyKat; Cap'n Crunch
Ahhhh-but YOUR knowledge of the Galileo affair is perfect, no?

So, Enlightened One (and I am not referring to burning-at-the-stake, another form of enlightenment) tell us all about how Rome suppressed Gal'o. Please.
298 posted on 01/01/2004 12:46:32 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: WackyKat; Cap'n Crunch; BlackElk
Nope. But you ARE defending Protestant aggression against Right Order.

And in the end, any violation of Right Order leads to death.
299 posted on 01/01/2004 12:48:51 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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To: WackyKat; Cap'n Crunch
Yup. Opus Dei and the Legionnaires of Christ will emerge from their BlackHelicopters wearing BlueHelmets, and looking for YOU!!!

Do you have a prescription for your delusion problem?
300 posted on 01/01/2004 12:50:20 PM PST by ninenot (So many cats, so few recipes)
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