Pope wants new international order to keep peace

Reuters | January 1, 2004 | Claire Soares

[HAL9000]

VATICAN CITY, Jan 1 (Reuters) - The world needs a "new international order" to solve its conflicts and ensure peace, Pope John Paul said in his New Year's Day address on Thursday.

The ghosts of 2003 -- when the United States invaded Iraq without United Nations approval -- dominated the pope's first speech of 2004.

"More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations," the 83-year-old pontiff said at a mass in St Peter's Basilica.

"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress," he added.

Speaking at Christendom's largest church, the pope urged people not to lose hope of finding peace in the Holy Land, which the Vatican feels is vital to winning the war on terror.

"The land in which Jesus was born sadly continues to live in a dramatic condition. And in other parts of the world sparks of violence and conflict have not been extinguished either. But we need to persevere and not bow to the temptation of losing hope."

Turning to Africa, the pope paid tribute to his Burundi ambassador, Michael Courtney, killed on Monday in an ambush the army has blamed on rebels who have refused to join a peace process to end a 10-year conflict.

"(He) was tragically killed...while he was going about his mission of promoting dialogue and reconciliation. We pray for him and hope his example and sacrifice will bear the fruits of peace in Burundi and the world," the pope said.

The leader of the world's one billion Catholics, who suffers from Parkinson's disease that makes it difficult for him to talk, seemed alert and read all of his homily in a clear voice.

But it is unclear what 2004 holds for him. For the first time since his election in 1978, the pope enters the new year with no firm plans for travel, although there have been some invitations.

He was particularly weak on his last foreign trip, a visit to Slovakia in September, when aides had to read most of his addresses for him.

[BlackElk]

I am a Roman Catholic.

Jim Bakker is the business of those who belong, as he does, to the Assemblies of God. He is none of my business just as Catholicism is none of yours.

That you bash non-Catholic Christians does not establish your bona fides as to Catholicism, especially in light of your persistent Catholic-bashing.

[BlackElk]

On this point, I am envious.

[sully777]

"...NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION! Our weapons are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope...and a night cap with the neighbors..."

Courtesy "for educational purposes" [LOL] : Monty Python's "Spanish Inquisition" (BBC Radio Version), The Worst/Best of Monty Python's Flying Circus Album, 1974.

Did I miss a memo; I thought the SJs were the Pope's International Force?!

[Tao Yin]

I think this is a good example of why our American founders set up a presidency that limited how long someone could be in power.

You make a good point. So the American founders set up a better system than the Catholic founders. Hmmm...

[alrea]

Pope wants new international order to keep peace

Dear Mr. Pope-

They tried that. It was called the UN. It is full of murderers and bandits that use it so those in power in their countries can stay in power and kill and steal and TAX. Don't be an instrument of these criminals. Governments must be contained. You are not a government. Don't act like one. Read some Austrian School Economics or maybe Animal Farm.

You are just enabling the killers and bandits, like journalists they haven turned into their chumps.

You may love and forgive His Excellency Mugabe of Zimbabwe but right now he is probably dining on a $10,000 breakfast while hundreds of thousands of children IN HIS COUNTRY starve to death. Other lovely Africans are hunting and eating each other in the name of negotiation, peace and THEIR GOD.

Happy New Year.

JESUS SAID THE STRONG MUST HELP THE WEAK.

Faithfully Yours.

PS: Don't forget that the TAX CUTS in the US have caused a surge in growth which is creating JOBS, and is allowing the US to feed more rescue more save more and protect more than any country in the history of the world, again. Don't help people like New York Senator Hillary Clinton and her armies of journasocialists put the brakes back on the tax cut driven economy while trying to cobble together some kind of world village. Tax cuts(government braking systems) have worked every time they have ever been tried. Some in congress are still questioning whether we can afford tax cuts.

[BlackElk]

You can tell the quality of a man by the enemies he keeps. Likewise, religions. We Roman Catholics (not the AmChurch types) are justly proud of the sort of enemies we inspire. Time for a new grease pencil, sir or madam, your graffitti seem tattered.

[Bluntpoint]

Your apparent ease at labeling bashers does not make them bashers.

Calling me a tree does not make me grow roots.

[BlackElk]

See #106. It applies to you too. The Catholic Founder was Jesus Christ. We didn't wait 1500 years to be founded.

[Alouette]

Having Bethlehem draped in posters of Arafat during Christmas was the last straw.

Where's you been? It's been like that for the past 10 years.

[Muleteam1]

No problem G. Like many Americans anymore, I have a chip on my shoulder too. Mine relates to being an older American. It ain't fun and it hurts a lot.

Happy New Year!

Muleteam1

[Maigrey]

I disagree also. That is a sure-fire way for a despot to take over, and inflict evil upon the lands.

[mtbopfuyn]

An international order? Heck, he can't even keep his own house in order.

[BlackElk]

Well, no, what you are called does not make it so. What makes it so is the reality of your conduct.

[alrea]

An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress

This is called law, liberty, property rights and capitalism. It's spreading. The European Socialist Countries, Dictators everywhere and the Democratic Party in the US are what's hampering it.

[GirlShortstop]

reed:  Why should we go into a defensive shell and not assume that the statement is aimed at the current situation in its entirety...

Sink:   Because you know very well that this assumption would be ludicrous.

Says you, sinkspur... I can see reed's point clearly.

The Pope's Christmas Peace Message....stated that there are underlying motives behind terrorism "which should be taken into account".
What on earth could bin Laden have to say that is worth listening to?

Listening to UBL?  I think you need to support that leap and put it into context.  As it stands, "underlying motives" is wide open to speculation, no?  My guess would be the chic muhammaden chant of "death to infidels", or wahhabism.

[G.Mason]

"sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)"

Every dog I have ever owned, with the exception of one Beagle who was given to me, was obtained at a dog pound.

That's seven dogs. Number six and seven are outside in the yard enjoying the sunshine as I type.

[alrea]

Turning to Africa, the pope paid tribute to his Burundi ambassador, Michael Courtney, killed on Monday in an ambush the army has blamed on rebels

Not to pick on the Pope, but these guys will die without military escorts in much of Africa.

[Bluntpoint]

Reality is in the eye of the fanatic beholder.

[sinkspur]

As it stands, "underlying motives" is wide open to speculation, no?

There is no supportable motive for terrorism. None. That the Pope thinks we should "listen to" terrorists is reprehensible.

[reed_inthe_wind]

"Because you know very well that this assumption would be ludicrous."

First - don't tell me what I think.

"The Pope's Christmas Peace Message,...stated that there are underlying motives behind terrorism which should be taken into account".

Our own military commanders in Iraq are conducting operations with a great deal of self imposed restraint. The purpose of the policy is to avoid stirring up additional resistance. So we are already taking into account motives of terrorism.

Our President's attempt to install a democratic and just government in Iraq is a prime example of how we are taking into account the motives of terrorism. Once again, FReepers go into a mental cacoon when the Vatican says anything.

[LibKill]

I blame everyone for everything.

You would. :)

[Bluntpoint]

My Korean neighbor is always picking up strays.

[Muleteam1]

Please see my message # 81.

Muleteam1

[GirlShortstop]

There is no supportable motive for terrorism.

Motive or JUSTIFICATION?

[sinkspur]

Once again, FReepers go into a mental cacoon when the Vatican says anything.

This is not "the Vatican." It's the Pope, who has STILL not expressed public gratitude to God for the liberation of the Iraqi people from a mass murderer.

[G.Mason]

" ....... Mine relates to being an older American. It ain't fun and it hurts a lot....... "

Yes Sir! I can relate to that.

Hell, I need a days rest after a day in the boat fishing.

Life is good!

[GirlShortstop]

the Pope, who has STILL not expressed public gratitude to God for the liberation of the Iraqi people from a mass murderer.

You're being ridiculous .... as if the man says to himself "drat!  Iraqis are free".

[Bluntpoint]

Of course the Pope screamed to high heaven when Libya was appointed to head the U.N. Human Rights commission.

Right?

[sinkspur]

Motive or JUSTIFICATION?

There is no acceptable motive or justification for terrorism.

[sinkspur]

No. A recognition that even his own Chaldean Catholics no longer have to fear Saddam Hussein would be nice.

[LibKill]

There is no acceptable motive or justification for terrorism.

Well said.

[FITZ]

I would have thought so ---- but we'll see how long America lasts as far as how it was meant to last by the Founding Fathers. I think we're already pretty far gone as far as the Constitution and government by the people. The Catholic Church has lasted a long time.

[Bluntpoint]

It has been scientifically proven that terrorisim is caused by an inner ear disorder.

[BlackElk]

The Jesuits ceased being Catholic, much less the Pope's men (4th vow takers), about forty years ago. They ran the prep school I attended when they were still Catholic. Now they need to be suppressed by the Vatican as they were in the 18th century. The Inquisition needs to be revived, though. Such AmChurchian phonies posing as Catholic as Ted Kennedy, Tom Harkin, Tom Daschle, Patty Murray, Nancy Pelosi, Patrick Leahy, Christopher Dodd, Barbara Mikulski, Mary Landrieu, Dickie Durbin, Dennis Kucinich, Carol Mostly Fraud, John Kerry, Roger Cardinal McPhony, Bishop Joseph Adamec, Bishop Delaney, Bishop Grahmann, Rosa DeLauro, and so many others need a good inquiry and its logical aftermath.

Tomas de Torquemada, pray for us! Cardinal Ximinez, pray for us!

BTW, the Inquisition was not at all limited to Spain nor should it have been or be.

[sinkspur]

Of course the Pope screamed to high heaven when Libya was appointed to head the U.N. Human Rights commission.

How about an acknowledgement of Libya's giving up weapons of terrorism?

An Italian politician said, in an insightful article last year, that the Vatican beats up on the West because it knows it can and there will be no retribution.

There is rarely an acknowledgement of the damage done by Muslim extremism. To be fair, some of this stuff comes, not from the Pope himself, but from an anti-Western curial element, led by buffoons like Archbishop Martino.

[Publius6961]

With all due respect, I still embrace the admonition to Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's..., and wistfully recall the wisdom of Urban II.

As for any international body, the jokes that have been the ones we have seen in the last century, The League of Nations and The United Nations, more people killed, butchered and burned to a crisp under both sad excuses for peacekeepers. What is the point if millions are allowed to die without a "declaration of war"?

Peacekeeping belongs to the strongest. Always has. Always will. When the weak get together, their main objective always becomes to take down the strong and somehow to replace it. Has never worked. Never will.

[BlackElk]

I've noticed.

[GirlShortstop]

There is no acceptable motive or justification for terrorism.

No kiddin'?!  Well I'll be.    </sarcasm off>

Two different words sink - motive versus justification.  You're spinning into some strange realm with the Christmas message, and not making much sense to me.  With that, I'll refrain from further discussion of it.  FReegards and Happy New Year.

[pctech]

Can anyone say, "One World Government?"

[cajungirl]

I haven't read the entire thread but I think the Pope just said the UN was history. but what alarmed me was the alliance of rich and poor countries and the "sharing" of resources. Now I don't mind sharing but when I hear this kind of talk, I feel like someone is coming to get my goodies just like they did in Rhodesia. Voluntary sharing is one thing but rarely does it remain voluntary when internationalist/socialists get involved. That said, the Pope is a good man and who can argue with the desire to end war.

[BlackElk]

Way to go! Apologies for not having pinged you.

[Publius6961]

Having Bethlehem draped in posters of Arafat during Christmas was the last straw.

For the first time in memory, no images of Bethlehem, no images of Holy Night. No broadcast of Midnight Mass on our major networks.
The animals have been allowed to take over the Holy places, for political and incomprehensible PC reasons. And I don't mean the warm fuzzy animals.

[sinkspur]

Two different words sink - motive versus justification.

Yes. You yourself acknowledged that that neither provides any sanction for terrorism.

I have no trouble understanding you.

[sinkspur]

I think the Pope just said the UN was history. but what alarmed me was the alliance of rich and poor countries and the "sharing" of resources.

It's the UN by another name.

[Publius6961]

My mother taught me, "Mindless is as mindless does."

[G.Mason]

"My Korean neighbor is always picking up strays."

My Korean neighbor was found floating in Lake Tsala Apopka.

Several suspect dogs were questioned, but released.

[BlackElk]

I look forward to joining you on the barricades in a surely successful effort if the UN or any other internationalist operation tries to tax us for international welfare. Voluntary charity is a virtue. One reason is that it is voluntary. Compelled charity lacks moral merit. Thanks for your post.

[reed_inthe_wind]

"the Pope...has STILL not expressed public gratitude to God for the liberation of the Iraqi people from a mass murderer."

You bring up an interesting point - although I don't know how you can assure anyone that this is true. Public gratitude to God can be expressed as part of a Mass during the Intercessory Prayers.

Secondly, the best time for this statement might be upon the inauguration of the new government.

[Bluntpoint]

By Black elk

Post on any thread about the Vatican.

[ODDITHER]

Let's see - if History proves correct- money laundering by the Vatican bank, ignoring the nazis, not having a great track record when it comes to backing democratically elected governments, not to mention the internal priest troubles, I think that Vatican needs to stick to their dictating religion to their own flock and leave politics to the duly elected governments.