Pope wants new international order to keep peace

Reuters | January 1, 2004 | Claire Soares

[HAL9000]

VATICAN CITY, Jan 1 (Reuters) - The world needs a "new international order" to solve its conflicts and ensure peace, Pope John Paul said in his New Year's Day address on Thursday.

The ghosts of 2003 -- when the United States invaded Iraq without United Nations approval -- dominated the pope's first speech of 2004.

"More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations," the 83-year-old pontiff said at a mass in St Peter's Basilica.

"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress," he added.

Speaking at Christendom's largest church, the pope urged people not to lose hope of finding peace in the Holy Land, which the Vatican feels is vital to winning the war on terror.

"The land in which Jesus was born sadly continues to live in a dramatic condition. And in other parts of the world sparks of violence and conflict have not been extinguished either. But we need to persevere and not bow to the temptation of losing hope."

Turning to Africa, the pope paid tribute to his Burundi ambassador, Michael Courtney, killed on Monday in an ambush the army has blamed on rebels who have refused to join a peace process to end a 10-year conflict.

"(He) was tragically killed...while he was going about his mission of promoting dialogue and reconciliation. We pray for him and hope his example and sacrifice will bear the fruits of peace in Burundi and the world," the pope said.

The leader of the world's one billion Catholics, who suffers from Parkinson's disease that makes it difficult for him to talk, seemed alert and read all of his homily in a clear voice.

But it is unclear what 2004 holds for him. For the first time since his election in 1978, the pope enters the new year with no firm plans for travel, although there have been some invitations.

He was particularly weak on his last foreign trip, a visit to Slovakia in September, when aides had to read most of his addresses for him.

[BlackElk]

Happy New Year, Deacon:

Sharing even with you, as most American Catholics do, a deep skepticism and disagreement with JP II on these transitory matters of foreign policy, it is necessary yet again to point out that the real motive of your consistent pope-bashing is JP II's unwillingness to adhere to the in-house-revolutionary blatherings of those AmChurchians, like yourself, who dissent on celibacy, support lavender rights in the public square, democracy or anarchy in the pews, and most forms of anti-papal insolence in our times, in spite of burrowing into minor orders as a deacon.

As actual Roman Catholics eagerly await the next bishop to be appointed to the missionary territory of Fort Worth (the Rio Linda of AmChurch) who may restore actual Catholicism to Delaney's museum of curious non-Catholic idiosyncracies, we also eagerly seek your deservedly humble obedience to the Supreme Pontiff and submission to the Teaching Magisterium of the Church without Modernist reservations.

[Bluntpoint]

Did he make the following statements quoted by him in article below?

Thursday May 15, 9:27 PM

Pope indicates U.N. should lead Iraq reconstruction

Click to enlarge photo
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope John Paul, a staunch opponent of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, said on Thursday that the United Nations should play a central role in the reconstruction of shattered nations.

In a series of speeches to 12 newly appointed ambassadors to the Holy See, the Pope said conflict and terrorism could never resolve the world's problems.

Without mentioning either country by name, the Pope made clear that he opposed U.S. moves to oversee the rebuilding of Iraq, saying the international community should take the lead.

"The United Nations is called upon, more than ever, to be the central place for decisions on the reconstruction of countries," he told the assembled ambassadors.

"That is an essential condition needed to restore trust in the heart of a country."

Washington has so far dragged its feet on calls for the United Nations to be given a major role in rebuilding Iraq, sending in its own team of officials to administer the country following the fall of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

The pope, who turns 83 on Sunday, led a vigorous anti-war campaign ahead of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, warning that the conflict could fuel terrorism and regional strife.

"War, which has once again won the upper hand, cannot be seen as a way to resolve conflicts," he said on Thursday, adding that terrorism endangered "the common cause of peace and the dignity of peoples".

In a speech to the new Syrian ambassador to the Vatican, the pontiff said the time had come for all peoples in the Middle East to learn to live together in peace, respecting the independence and sovereignty of their neighbours.

"One must hope that all the leaders of this region display courage and audacity," he said. Syria, which is still nominally at war with Israel, said this week that it wanted to resume peace talks with its old enemy.

[Lazamataz]

I blame everyone for everything.

[F16Fighter]

More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations," the 83-year-old pontiff said at a mass in St Peter's Basilica...

"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress," he added.

And just how is the Pope proposing to enforce his idea of a non-sovereign, communistic utopia??

Quite frankly, this man is dangerous.

[Desdemona]

BE,

Read the article carefully. The author carefully wrote. I think that maybe she injected her own spin on the pope's words. No need to bring the rest of the arguments into this incident.

[Bluntpoint]

Was the Pope misquoted here also?

"The United Nations is called upon, more than ever, to be the central place for decisions on the reconstruction of countries," he told the assembled ambassadors.

"That is an essential condition needed to restore trust in the heart of a country."

[G Larry]

My post stated that the Pope did not make the statement regarding the U.S. invading without UN authorization.

Regarding the quote you cite here, the Pope already has what he's asked for.
We did react based on our experience with the results of the UN.

[Doctor13]

The Pope said, "More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations," the 83-year-old pontiff said at a mass in St Peter's Basilica.

"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress," he added.

To remind. It was this pope who justified the bombing of Serbs. Rome's daily La Repubblieg, published on 14 August 1993, a front cover illustration of the pope at the top of a minaret calling: "Isus (Warren) Christopher, save us." The Italian Press condemned Pope John Paul for blessing an American air assault on Serb positions and for asking President Clinton to launch it without delay. On 15 August 1993, Roman Catholic priest, Don Albino Bizzotto, founder of the Beati Construttovi di Pace peace and charity orgnization, has assessed the pope's call for air strikes on Bosnian Serbs as 'disappointing' and 'double-dealing. "We cannot understand those who speak about mercy and military intervention at the same time, he said. Fr. Bizzotto went on to say: The pope's behavior is like a leading big power, who tries to cure their hypocrisies and failures with armed interventions."

The war against the Serbs was unjust and immoral. It received no approval from Congress nor from the UN, but our wag-the-dog President Clinton went ahead with his bombing of innocent Serbian civilians. This war was to appease the Muslim world. It was to show them that we were willing to destroy a Christian people in order to prove it.

[varon]

"More than ever we need a new international order which draws on the experience and results of the United Nations," the 83-year-old pontiff said at a mass in St Peter's Basilica.

"I respectfully disagree."

I interpreted the Popes statement to mean it's time to learn from the mistakes of the UN and dissolve it. Not such a bad idea, is it?

[sinkspur]

By saying that we need something new now more than ever, our Holy Father is telling the world that the current UN is screwed up and inadequate. That's the same thing our President said to the world when he led us in the preemptive invasion of Iraq.

Well, I suppose that's one way of interpreting it.

The most obvious way of interpreting what the Pope said is that it is another slap at US unilateralism, which is willing to act when international bodies won't. The Pope knows that, had the US taken his advice, Hussein would still be in power, stuffing his people into shredders.

The Pope wants something to counter the United States and Britain. Surely you see that.

[cousair]

Had this mighty man of Rome and leader of the Catholic church acted differently to the decay in the church...worldwide, instead of turning his head or putting it in the sand, his authority would not be questioned. He very clearly said it was an American problem?? An American problem...hardly. All Christians have taken a hit and a bad one. Worldwide we will suffer because the leadership in Rome slept while the church rotted from within. The UN never has stepped up and done a leadership job. It is a debating society and has been as ineffectual as the Church.

[Bluntpoint]

Before anyone else, let me be the first to call you a "Wag The Dog" basher.

You always jump on the threads with an agenda to attack dogs.

Signed,

blackbeagle.

[G Larry]

Are you intentionally missing my point?
Reuters set this up to make it appear that the Pope made the statement about the U.S. invading without UN approval.
He did not.

I'm clear on the Pope's earlier statements regarding the UN's role.
Under it's current construct the UN is not capable of achieving the results he seeks.

[Leto]

>>What is it about getting old that makes cowards of us all.<<

Perhaps it relates to a better perspective of the pain and suffering involved in war?

Muleteam1

Perhaps his perspective should be a bit wiser. If we had proceeded in the cold war as the Pope suggests, Poland would still be suffering under communism. Millions would still be enslaved. The Pope should appreciate the role the US plays and the blood we spill defending civilization from barbarian terrorist.

[BlackElk]

Foreign policy is not dogma.

That having been said and disagreeing with His Holiness on foreign policy in this instance, as do most American Catholics and most Americans, I would point out that you are a rather consistent Catholic-basher on this and other threads. Was your mother scared by a priest when she was carrying you or are you just another self-worshiping refugee from the Truth?

In the unlikely event that you are actually conservative and not just playing one on the Internet, do you really think that Catholic-bashing is a winning strategy in a nation 28% Catholic?

[Bluntpoint]

You read more into the Pope's comments than I.

[Bluntpoint]

I posted about Jim Bakker yesterday and did not get called a protestant basher my a "knee jerker" once.

Go figure.

[Bluntpoint]

my=by

[dennisw]

Definitely!!!

[Dont Mention the War]

The world needs a Warrior Pope. Not an appeaser.

He was a Warrior Pope! He played arguably as important a role in bringing down Communism as Ronald Reagan!

I can only surmise that either age has changed him somehow, or the "nothing can ever go wrong" 90s made him soft.

[sinkspur]

Under it's current construct the UN is not capable of achieving the results he seeks.

No "international body" is capable of achieving what John Paul II seeks.

"An order which is capable of finding adequate solutions to today's problems, based on the dignity of human beings, on integrating all society, on solidarity between rich and poor countries, on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress," he added.

[avenir]

"Quite frankly, this man is dangerous."

What I wonder is, how can someone who (supposedly) knows the Bible inside out fall for delusions like the U.N.?

Jesus flatly stated there will ALWAYS be wars and rumors of wars. He flatly stated that the poor will ALWAYS be with us. Not that you wash your hands of the problem of war or poverty, but a Biblical world view includes the realization that men "will wax worse and worse" as we approach the End. There's no "happy ending" for this world. It's on death row, and we do the best we can until the Judgement.

Also, how can a thorough-going Catholic not be in touch with one of their oldest doctrines, that of The Fall of man? Genesis, for a believer, explains the whole story of why we're in this sorry mess. We rebelled against God "in Adam", we're all guilty by proxy. There is no quicky cure for this curse! God took His time before revealing His Son Jesus (who truly is the Cure). He allows much misery to occur in this world...maybe because of the Fall? The consequences of that act resonate through history.

I wonder if there aren't cynical manipulators behind the scenes using the aged John Paul as a puppet. I hope he doesn't truly believe in a godless version of "peace".

[Dog Anchor]

assembled in the city of San Francisco...

How appropriate.

[Dont Mention the War]

to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

I'm all for international machinery. Without it, Rachel Corrie might still be helping to smuggle terrorists and bombs into Israel.

[Bluntpoint]

but a Biblical world view includes the realization that men "will wax worse and worse" as we approach the End.

Go to Blockbuster today! Rent some Walt Disney films stat! Then you will see there are always happy endings!

"Old Yeller" was an anomally!

[BlackElk]

We have to learn from the myriad blunders of the UN. Nothing wrong with that. Does the UN ever fail to blunder? Should we just repeat the blunders? It is what we do when we have learned from the blunders that counts. We, as in the USA.

A pope opposes war and its attendant death and destruction. This is no surprise. Most religious leaders are not cheerleaders for war. The Vatican is also a nation-state with national policies of its own. The pope is both a religious leader and a secular leader. JP II will worry abouit Vatican policy. We Americans will concern ourselves with American policies.

Finally, it was apparent early on that the policy chosen by the conclave that elected the Polish prelate, Karol Cardinal Wojtlywa as pope, enacted a policy for his papacy of moral warfare against the Soviet Union. To become pope, the elected nominee MUST formally accept the policy chosen by the conclave BEFOE it elected him. Cooperation via Solidarnosz with destabilizing the Polish puppet regime of Wojciech Jaruzelski, and the resulting domino effect of destabilizing the rest of the captive nations of Easter Europe and, via cooperation with Ronaldus Maximus and Maggie Thatcher, the Soviet Union itself, JP II faithfully carried out and discharged his obligations to the conclave policy.

JP II is now old and God will relieve him of the burdens of authority when God sees fit. Meanwhile foreign policy is not dogma.

[Lazamataz]

I hate reasonable analysis.

[BlackElk]

Your point is well taken as to the article.

I tend to be a bit persistent on the motives of sinkspur in pope-bashing, however, because persistence is required. We all bear the chains we forged in life as Jacob Marley's ghost observed and, with new posters joining FR each day, reminders of AmChurch duplicity are often in order. You and I may disagree on this but I respect you nonetheless.

God bless you and yours.

[F16Fighter]

"What I wonder is, how can someone who (supposedly) knows the Bible inside out fall for delusions like the U.N.?"

I think many of us know the disturbing answer to your question...

The Pope simply is NOT the "leader" of the Christendom.

[BlackElk]

Do you think Milosevic is a Christian?

You correctly oppose the notion that the Arkansas Antichrist had legitimate purposes in Kosovo. It seems too much, however, to accuse Christianity of harboring the likes of Milosevic.

[Muleteam1]

>>My friend, there are things much worse than death. There are, also, things worth dying for.<<

Indeed. My comment was not meant to defend the position of the Pope as I wholeheartedly disagree with him. My comment was to defend age and experience from being prejudicially labled as cowards. A 60 year old personally has experienced the pain involved in jumping off a chair at age 60 and at age 18 where an 18 year old has only the narrower perspective. It's not cowardice to not want to jump off a chair at age 60, it is intelligence based on experience. The Pope's suggestion that America's defense be turned over to a world of despots and thugs is simply political since he would not be the one to suffer the consequences.

Muleteam1

[Bluntpoint]

I hate reasonable analysis.

Some times a Pope says what he says.

[BlackElk]

Thank you. God bless you and yours.

[avenir]

"Go to Blockbuster today! Rent some Walt Disney films stat! Then you will see there are always happy endings!"

I know. And I admit I love sappy movies!

But please (John Paul?) don't tell me we're going to try running the world with movie logic.

[nmh]

Another idiotic one world government guy. He needs to step DOWN. He is an embarrassment.

[Bluntpoint]

Nothing is gained by your constant "sinkspur" bashing.

Sinkspur is the same today as he was 2000 years ago as he will be 2000 years from now.

Nothing you can say will change that.

[FITZ]

I think this is a good example of why our American founders set up a presidency that limited how long someone could be in power. John Paul II was good in his day --- but he hasn't ever been the same since the assassination attempt on him --- they didn't kill him --- but they did make him sick and weak. I imagine the pain medications he's needed do affect his thinking.

[fml]

How can a man who's lived as long as he has and experienced as much as he has be so näive?

Because he's actually lived a charmed life for most of his years.

[nmh]

He's probably still distraught over saddam insane being shown for what he is - a rat. I don't know what it is with these leftists. They're so worried about the appearance and "rights" of murderers. They exalt evil.

[BlackElk]

Watch it. I am not only Catholic but a dog fan. I even have a partiality to the admirable qualities of the breed of beagles (see Lou in Cats and Dogs).

[Judith Anne]

Parkinson's Disease, and the medications used to treat the condition, can also interfere with thinking.

That said, I really appreciate BlackElk's comments.

[nmh]

Maybe he should kiss the Koran some more.

[Bluntpoint]

I have five beagles, my 11 year old wants to go outback to run rabbits today.

[nmh]

"I think he should be more concerned about keeping perverted priest's hands off of children."

Nah, he won't even meet with victims but brother is he outspoken about saddam's capture condition. His true colors are showing ... .

[reed_inthe_wind]

"The most obvious way of interpreting what the Pope said is that it is another slap at US unilateralism, which is willing to act when international bodies won't. The Pope knows that, had the US taken his advice, Hussein would still be in power, stuffing his people into shredders.

The Pope wants something to counter the United States and Britain. Surely you see that."

I think you are being to defensive. The slap - if that's what we are calling it - is directed toward the state of the UN. Why should we go into a defensive shell and not assume that the statement is aimed at the current situation in its entirety including the intransigence of France and Russia, the emergence of terror networks loosely aligned with rogue states, and the complacency of the current order regarding rogue states developing and proliferating WMD.

[sinkspur]

Why should we go into a defensive shell and not assume that the statement is aimed at the current situation in its entirety including the intransigence of France and Russia, the emergence of terror networks loosely aligned with rogue states, and the complacency of the current order regarding rogue states developing and proliferating WMD.

Because you know very well that this assumption would be ludicrous.

The Pope's Christmas Peace Message, delivered through the clownish Archbishop Martino two weeks ago and largely unreported, stated that there are underlying motives behind terrorism "which should be taken into account".

What on earth could bin Laden have to say that is worth listening to?

[G.Mason]

" ....... My comment was not meant to defend the position of the Pope as I wholeheartedly disagree with him....... "

Oh ....... I see.

It's rather hard, sometimes, to distinguish intent via this dang keyboard.

I understand you, now, and totally agree.

[AlbionGirl]

I'd like to take you seriously Pope John, but I can't. I know you are many times over better educated than me, but your solution is one that will never, repeat, never work.

I don't know why you can't see that even with all of our flaws, the American philosophy of governance and its people are the last, best hope on Earth. I say this as a woman who emigrated from Italy in 1958. Wake up, Pontiff, wake up!!!

I do respect your service to the Church, but if you don't mind a little advise from a stupefied at your reasoning Catholic, you need to begin the peace process with a fumigation of your digs, and the digs of all of your cardinals and bishops and repropbates in collar.

And no one is going to take you seriously until you show as much passion and grief for the victims of abuse at the hands of your 'disciples', as you do for despots and tyrants.

And one last thing, please tell cardinal 'i felt sorry for saddam' to take a long walk off a short pier.

[BlackElk]

The term limitation amendment was proposed by the Republican post-World War II Congress, still reeling in reasonable shock over FDR being elected four times, but the point is well-taken. As a Catholic, I do believe that JP II might justifiably retire and make way for a much younger pope, vigorously and militantly orthodox and committed to purging ruthlessly what must be purged within the Church and then to wage war against the world's evils. JP II has accomplished what he could accomplish and that was much.

Francis Fukuyama notwithstanding, we have not reached the end of history.

JP II was certainly badly damaged physically by the assassination attempt but his greatest successes were later including the fall of the Iron Curtain. He declined thereafter but still contributed major doctrinal encyclicals and held the line against all comers on doctrine. In the last analysis, he is a human being subject to the frailties of age. He will be known as John Paul the Great, joining Leo the Great and Gregory the Great. We will recognize that greatness more and more after he has gone.

More to be feared than anything else is a prolonged period of coma or complete disability, essentially an interregnum, which would allow Modernist termites room to manipulate in his name.

Finally, JP II may be motivated by an apparently unwarranted optimism that the UN or some successor organization might someday become a vehicle for the restoration of Christendom. Short of direct, divine intervention, that seems quite unlikely, now or ever. Prudence dictates that we remain American nationalists and interventionists (as necessary) and keep our sovereignty strong and our powder dry.

[BlackElk]

I am a Roman Catholic.

Jim Bakker is the business of those who belong, as he does, to the Assemblies of God. He is none of my business just as Catholicism is none of yours.

That you bash non-Catholic Christians does not establish your bona fides as to Catholicism, especially in light of your persistent Catholic-bashing.