Berlusconi: I tried to stop Bush

News.com.au ^ | 14 Nov. 2004

[ValenB4]

No it's not the same thing. If Germany was going to invade Italy to prevent Berlusconi from going along with Bush, and then Berlusconi went along anyway, that would be loyalty.

[Hugin]

Only if you are willing to subordinate your conscience to stupidity.

Going to war was not a question of conscience but of judgement. Perhaps his conscience would not allow him to abandon the ally who protected his country for 50 years.

[swheats]

Alberta's Child I have a strong hunch that President Bush is damned if he does or doesn't bring the troops home during the election cycle.

Everyday he's faced with the potential of a terrorists attack on his watch on the homefront.

Do we put in jeopardy men/women who have chosen and trained well in the military as a career or do we lose innocent civilians at the hands of terrorists?

Oh for the days when all we knew of was monica's blue dress and Bill lying to the Grand Jury. /sarcasm

[Jodi]

Bummer that Saddam is outta power, eh dudes?

[ValenB4]

Perhaps you're right. But is it very likely that the man who wheeled and dealed his way into becoming Italy's richest man made such a decision out of altruism? I would say no. So call me cynical.

[A Citizen Reporter]

Perhaps we ought to consider this source.

BERLUSCONI: WEST MUST REPLACE DICTATORSHIP WITH DEMOCRACY

"BERLUSCONI: WEST MUST REPLACE DICTATORSHIP WITH DEMOCRACY
(AGI) - Brussels, Belgium, 14 November - The West has to take on the role of guarantor of freedom and democracy "in each country where dictatorship provokes a reaction of fundamentalism and terrorism, so as to impose a respect for human rights and dignity." Thus stated Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, in his speech to the UNICE convention in Brussels.

Berlusconi recalled US President, George Bush's last speech to the UN, "in which he said that alongside democratic systems there are 40 countries with dictatorships." "I believe - said Berlusconi - that the international community can intervene in these countries to impose with democracy those freedoms that govern the well-being of the individual." Berlusconi emphasised the importance for the West of guaranteeing a new world order, "even with the use of force as a final instrument and also with economic pressure." These are instruments that Europe possesses and that are "very convincing and very effective." (AGI)

141850 NOV 03
COPYRIGHTS 2002-2003 AGI S.p.A.

[Alberta's Child]

There WAS a congressional election in 2002, in which the congress was forced to go on record prior to the election, knowing FULL WELL that the American public supported the action in IRAQ.

Politically, casting a vote in favor of the war in 2002 was the easiest vote many members of Congress would cast in their careers, precisely because the war WAS popular among the American public (for reasons based on utter ignorance, for the most part). If there were a Congressional election in February of next year, I can assure you that Congress (including many Republicans) would be falling all over themselves to extricate U.S. troops from Iraq. Wars are always popular among voters until thr incessant casualty reports make them realize that war isn't the video game that it is often made out to be.

[Alberta's Child]

Everyday he's faced with the potential of a terrorists attack on his watch on the homefront. Do we put in jeopardy men/women who have chosen and trained well in the military as a career or do we lose innocent civilians at the hands of terrorists?

If one of these items had anything to do with the other, then you would have a point. It never ceases to amaze me how many people really believe that exposing U.S. troops to rocket-propelled grenade fire in Mosul and homemade roadside bombs in Tikrit somehow makes a terrorist attack "on the homefront" any less likely.

Alberta's Child I have a strong hunch that President Bush is damned if he does or doesn't bring the troops home during the election cycle.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. President Bush made his bed, so now he can sleep in it. There were quite a few people here on FreeRepublic who said a year ago that invading Iraq was a huge blunder from both a political and a military perspective.

[swheats]

There were quite a few people here on FreeRepublic who said a year ago that invading Iraq was a huge blunder from both a political and a military perspective.

I'm not one of those people. I would also say if true that there's a connection with Osama, Sadam and Al Queada Bush moved too late. By now AL Queada definately would have possession of weapons of mass destruction. It would be only the grace of God that they have not perfected their methods of delivering them.

I would also say I'm thankful it is Bush and not Gore who's having to sleep in that bed.

[ValenB4]

It is quite puzzling. You must be torn, trying to determine whether or not it's OK to still like him. I myself have always liked him and still do. Apparently he didn't think the use of force was being used as a final instrument in the case of Iraq.

[A Citizen Reporter]

"Wars are always popular among voters until thr incessant casualty reports make them realize that war isn't the video game that it is often made out to be."

Yes, that's the game of the media reporters, isn't it? To make, as you say, incessant casualty reports. In effect, to make this into the second Vietnam. But this isn't Vietnam, and no matter what demoguagery you try to apply between now and "February" it is NOT the same animal.

[Alberta's Child]

I'm not one of those people. I would also say if true that there's a connection with Osama, Sadam and Al Queada Bush moved too late.

That's the big "if" -- and that's why I said that public support for the war last year was based largely on ignorance. Something like 60% of the American public believed that there was a connection between Iraq and al-Qaeda even after the Bush administration made it clear that no connection had been established.

[Alberta's Child]

But this isn't Vietnam, and no matter what demoguagery you try to apply between now and "February" it is NOT the same animal.

I'm not the one who's trying to make this another "Vietnam" -- it's actually the Bush administration that is doing this, albeit unintentionally. If you don't believe me, just think about all the important decisions that are now being driven by nothing more than political considerations here at home.

[A Citizen Reporter]

Frankly, I don't care whether you like him or not. But your purpose here on this forum have been exposed.

[swheats]

I believe concerning Iraq the "Bush Doctrine" in operation at the time of debate was "pre-emption". No, there were no "clear" connection made. But the dots connected enough to show that action needed to be made.

It didn't take much of a leap when Sadam was paying thousands of dollars to suicide bombers families. Our military found millions of dollars in cash stored away, I suppose just for a rainy day.

[A Citizen Reporter]

"I'm not the one who's trying to make this another "Vietnam""

If not, here's a little tip. I'd watch the usage of the words 'incessant casualty reports', were I you.

[ValenB4]

But your purpose here on this forum have been exposed.

Uh-oh.

[Alberta's Child]

I'd watch the usage of the words 'incessant casualty reports', were I you.

What does the use of the phrase "incessant casualty reports" have to do with whether I perceive of Iraq as "another Vietnam" or not?

Incessant - adj. Continuing without interruption.

That sounds pretty accurate to me, at least at this point in time.

[Dane]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. President Bush made his bed, so now he can sleep in it. There were quite a few people here on FreeRepublic who said a year ago that invading Iraq was a huge blunder from both a political and a military perspective

Remember to remind me when they are passing out fox hole allotments, to make sure we are not assigned the same foxhole. You would be in the fetal position sucking your thumb.

"Oh the world would be so much better with saddam still in power."

[A Citizen Reporter]

Demagogue n A leader who obtains power by means of impassioned appeals to the emotions and prejudices of the populace.

Hhhhhmmmm, that sounds a little like the parliamentary system you started off talking about on this thread.