Professor Appointed to Probe Schiavo Case

Guardian Unlimited ^ | Nov 1, 2003 | Vickie Chachere

[Future Useless Eater]

Professor Appointed to Probe Schiavo Case

Saturday November 1, 2003 1:01 AM

By VICKIE CHACHERE
Associated Press Writer

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - A judge appointed a University of South Florida professor on Friday to independently investigate the case of a severely brain-damaged woman at the center of a right-to-die battle.

Jay Wolfson, an expert on health care financing, will report to Gov. Jeb Bush and recommend whether the stay the governor enacted to keep Terri Schiavo alive should be allowed to remain.

Schiavo suffered severe brain damage when her heart stopped due to a chemical imbalance and has been in a persistent vegetative state for more than a decade. Doctors have said there is no hope for her recovery.

Her husband, Michael Schiavo, has fought to have her feeding tube removed, saying his wife did not want to be kept alive artificially.

Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, dispute that claim and have fought to keep their daughter alive, saying they believe she could be rehabilitated.

Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was removed for six days in October before the Florida Legislature and Gov. Jeb Bush enacted a special law to have it reinserted. The law also required a guardian to be appointed.

George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo, and the American Civil Liberties Union filed briefs this week challenging the constitutionality of the governor's action. The state is expected to respond on Monday.

The judge said that if the law is found to be unconstitutional, Wolfson is to cease his work.

The Schindlers had objected to Wolfson's appointment, claiming comments he made to a television station indicated he was biased against the newly enacted law. The judge said he found no evidence of bias.

Wolfson did not return calls seeking comment.

The judge ordered Wolfson to report to the governor in 30 days, but said the deadline could be extended if needed.

[Future Useless Eater]

>>daylate is trying to provoke a fight so we will complain about him again... then JR will pull our threads again. He did this all last week.

Thats a pretty underhanded dirty trick of the anti-Terri crowd!
Thanks for the warning. Can't we appeal to JR, and show him
what they are doing?

[sweetliberty]

"daylate is trying to provoke a fight so we will complain about him again... then JR will pull our threads again. He did this all last week."

I have seen his posts. I have chosen to ignore him. He is obviously trolling. Did you ping Jim or the moderator to your post #351?

[Future Useless Eater]

>>Did you ping Jim or the moderator to your post #351?

No I didn't... I'd rather shut this thread off so it is preserved than have it trashed by them,

...or risk having it deleted due to them.

We can start new threads to make them all less
attack-prone.

[sweetliberty]

Well, I was just thinking in terms of making them aware of where the problems were coming from so that if it keeps happening, the ones who are the cause will be the ones getting their posts pulled, and hopefully not everybody will have to pay for it.

[sweetliberty]

I'm pretty done with this thread anyway because of the trolls.

[JustPiper]

We get trolls on every hot issue thread it seems. I've had some get me in hot water -g-

[JustPiper]

She IS Alive! I caught this Chris moment.

[PeyersPatches]

Dead brain tissue cannot be repaired or regrown. Is is just that- DEAD TISSUE.

---

Not exactly true. The brain has shown itself to bypass bad synapse. The brain is truly amazing and we are just now beginning to learn more about it. Tremendous leaps will be advanced in neuroscience, already are. The next decade will be amazing. Christopher Reeve is a great example as he can now breath on his own for 2 hrs at a time - something previously thought impossible.

[daylate-dollarshort]

"The brain has shown itself to bypass bad synapse. The brain is truly amazing and we are just now beginning to learn more about it."

I agree with these statements, however what we are talking about in the Terri Schiavo case is the wholesale destruction of the cerebral cortex, not a synapes failure. If you think about the synapsis of the brain as the wiring- elecrtical connections- one can repair the wiring from the power pole to the house, but if the house has burned down the lights will still not go on.

In Terri's case the house has burned down and what is left is nothing but ashes. The dead tissue has atrophied and the volume once occupied by her cerebral cortex has been replaced by spinal fluid. There is no mechanism which will grow or otherwise generate new brain tissue.

Christopher Reeves is not an example applicable to the Terri Schiavo situation. He suffered a spinal cord injury, not a brain injury. I submit that rather than a synapse regeneration to his diaphragm, he has retrained himself to breathe using other muscle groups. This would explain the two hour limitation on his ability to breathe unassisted. His synapses dont get tired- his muscles do. I admire his determination, however I cannot agree that he is an example of a regeneration od nerve tissue.

[syriacus]

Thanks, FL_engineer.
I'm glad you gave the warning.
I might easily have thought some "anti-Terri" comments were serious questions.

I'm spending most of my time this week getting ready for my daughter's wedding and only check into the Terri threads once in a while. I usually can take the time to read Terri posts more thoroughly, to try to understand a poster's point of view.

[Mamzelle]

What is the latest on Terri? Have not read anything on it the last couple of days.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

I am not sure what is going on with the trolls, perhaps mods are keeping them around for pets.

These trolls, on every Terri thread ,are organized and all fight the same exact way. I would warn everyone to be very careful of them, not only are they passive agressive and illogical, they have really bad grammer most of the time.... I think it is two or three people switching screen neames, that is why there is a constant message, but different ways in which each screen name communicates, then it switches back again.

I have detected one very angry person who know a great deal about the inner working of the legal case, one sidekick who is not very smart or who has very good grammer, who parots ther leader and works really hard to have us believe Felos is a jerk, but very bright, and one Southern Belle wanna be.

They all insist that Terri had an eating disorder and that is what put her in this condition. They all want us to stop fighting, they all show contempt for the people they say they are supporting, and with whom they fight side by side ,for Terri's BEST interest. ( I think they fight for her best interest too, we just ahve very different ideas of wht her best interest is.) Who could this "dream team" be. Lets ignore them, but do important stuff by freepmail or e-mail for awhile.

[Theodore R.]

Even if your analysis of Terri's "dead" brain is correct, and it may well be correct, that to me is not justification for starvation and dehydration of an innocent person on orders from one blind circuit judge in a corrupt FL judiciary.

[TigersEye]

GREAT HOMEPAGE

Thanks! You made me look, I forgot what I had there.

[TigersEye]

Nice homepage yourself. Thank you for your service and sacrifices for our country!

[TigersEye]

It should be noted that Hammesfahr was not nominated by his peers or anyone involved in medicine, but by Mike Billerakis(sp.) his congressman- (no doubt in return for a handsome campaign contribution).

I see you don't mind indulging in baseless accusations.

[daylate-dollarshort]

Yes- it does appear we are of like minds.

[TigersEye]

I didn't make a baseless accusation I made a mistatement and admitted it. My statement didn't attack anyone's character, yours did.

[floriduh voter]

The best thing is to IGNORE disruptors. If we complain too much, it won't help Terri. FR is doing outstanding work with PUBLIC AWARENESS and WORKING WITH THE MEDIA and rallying people to join terrisfight.org.

The bad apples would like to spoil the whole bunch. Every once in awhile, just do an updated post stating:

FRIENDS OF TERRI - PLEASE IGNORE DISRUPTORS. THEY'RE TRYING TO BAIT YOU. DON'T FALL FOR IT. AND, REMEMBER LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS....

Just copy and paste that one wherever you see trouble. FV

[Krodg]

Dr. William Maxfield, a Tampa radiologist, agreed that Terri is not in a persistent vegetative state, noting her ability to follow commands and her responsiveness, according to the AP. After comparing Terri's 1996 CAT scan to her 2002 scan, Maxfield also testified that Terri's brain tissue appeared more localized and uniform.

"It tells me that the brain tissue on the [2002] study has a more normal appearance," Maxfield testified, adding that hyperbaric oxygen therapy, similar to Hammesfahr's recommendation, could lead to improvement, the AP reported.

http://www.nrlc.org/news/2002/NRL11/shiavo.html

[Republic]

It is Shook's testimony, in your link, that chills me. She actually says that MS did not know what Terri's wishes would be.....this is just so amazing? Why isn't HER statement as valid as MS's-who stands to gain, while she does not? Both are hearsay!

[Future Useless Eater]

>> MS did not know what Terri's wishes would be.....this is just so amazing? Why isn't HER statement as valid as MS's-who stands to gain, while she does not? Both are hearsay!

For THAT matter, why are the (at least TWO) people who
KNEW Terri was wanting a divorce just prior to her 'accident'
ALSO allowed to present their 'hearsay'? Its just as
valid too...

Actually moreso now, since MS has clearly
ended his marriage thru adultery, starting a new family,
and refusing any additional treatment for Terri.

[Krodg]

Attorneys scramble to find woman in Schiavo case

Both sides want to talk with the woman whose comments turned around the case of Terri Schiavo.

By ANITA KUMAR and WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE

© St. Petersburg Times, published April 28, 2001

The woman whose statements prompted a judge to resume feeding Terri Schiavo could not be found Friday by attorneys eager to talk to her.

Attorneys for both Mrs. Schiavo's husband and her parents scrambled to serve Cyndi Shook with a subpoena, forcing her to testify about her accusations that Michael Schiavo committed perjury when he said his wife would not want to be kept alive on life support.

The case, which made it to the U.S. Supreme Court only to be overturned by a Pinellas circuit judge, is expected to continue in full force next week, making it clear that Mrs. Schiavo's fate will not be decided quickly.

Mrs. Schiavo, 37, was fed through a feeding tube to her stomach Thursday night for the first time since being denied food and water for 60 hours.

Shook, a 31-year-old mother of two, spoke out this week when she heard people describing Michael Schiavo as a saint on a local radio show. She said she wanted to set the record straight.

Shook and Michael Schiavo were friends for about 10 months in 1992. In an interview with the St. Petersburg Times, Shook said Schiavo told her he did not know what to do with his wife, who had been in a persistent vegetative state since a 1990 heart attack.

Shook says Schiavo did not know what Mrs. Schiavo would have wanted him to do with her: keep her in a nursing home or move her to her parents' home. But Shook says Schiavo was not talking specifically about whether his wife would have wanted to be on life support.

She asked him what would help him get on with his life. That's when Schiavo said, "How the hell should I know? She was 25 years old and we did not talk about it," she said.

"That's exactly what I remember him saying," Shook said. "It was more of a "I have no earthly idea what to do' kind of statement."

She said she sympathizes with Mrs. Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, but insists that they're grasping at straws and twisting her words when they try to use her words to help keep Mrs. Schiavo alive.

After receiving word of Shook's statement, Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Frank Quesada on Thursday ordered doctors to resume feeding Mrs. Schiavo while her parents pursue a lawsuit against the woman's husband. The judge did what the U.S. Supreme Court and four other courts before him refused to do.

George Felos, Schiavo's attorney, said he was considering a number of legal options but had not decided how to fight the Schindlers, or if he should appeal Quesada's decision to the 2nd District Court of Appeal in Lakeland.

"Time is of the essence," Felos said. "Each day that goes by Terri is medically treated in a way she did not want to be."

Within minutes of the 8:30 p.m. order Thursday, doctors resumed feeding her through a tube for the first time since 8 a.m. Tuesday.

The Schindlers, who for years have fought their son-in-law over whether Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube should be removed, visited their daughter for about 30 minutes Friday afternoon for the first time since the feeding resumed.

"I wouldn't wish this experience on anybody," Schindler said outside Hospice House Woodside in Pinellas Park. "It's been horrible . . . What we're ultimately trying to do is keep Terri alive."

It's unlikely Mrs. Schiavo suffered any permanent damage from the lack of food and water, said Dr. Ronald Schonwetter, head of geriatrics at the University of South Florida College of Medicine.

He said she would likely have become more sleepy -- probably yawning more than usual -- but that she would have easily been able to consume food again, though less than before because her body was not accustomed to being fed.

Mrs. Schiavo has been living in the Hospice House Woodside since last year, when publicity prompted her former nursing home to evict her. Schiavo banned his wife's sister, Suzanne, and brother, Bobby, from the home Thursday after they asked employees there to feed her.

It is the policy of Hospice of the Florida Suncoast to feed patients, even after a feeding tube has been removed, if they are able to eat on their own. The Schindlers want the nursing home to try to feed Mrs. Schiavo but Felos said tests have shown she can't swallow.

Schiavo, a respiratory therapist who lives in Clearwater, could not be reached for comment but Felos said he denies Shook's allegations and questioned why she had not spoken up before.

Schiavo has been engaged to another woman for five years. He and his wife do not have children.

"I can't even express in words how hard this has been," Felos said. "It's heart-wrenching. It's a travesty."

- Times staff writer Mike Brassfield and researcher Cathy Wos contributed to this report.



http://www.sptimes.com/News/042801/TampaBay/Attorneys_scramble_to.shtml

[Lion in Winter]

Travesty thy name is felos!!

[Lion in Winter]

"I can't even express in words how hard this has been," Felos said. "It's heart-wrenching. It's a travesty."

Travesty thy name is felos!!

Heart-wrencing thy name is mike schiavo!

[Future Useless Eater]

If you are interested, I'm open to a private discussion however -

Normally a Lurker - No thank you. As I understand it you were banned by the owner of F.R. from continuing to post on 'Terri threads' for being disruptive. So I don't wish to encourage you by discussing this matter with you in private either.

[walford]

Sources on #6, please. This is the first I saw of any pre- hospitalized Terri saying she was contemplating divorce. This is damning evidence if it can be corroborated.

Working on a paper on this subject for a media class...

[Normally a Lurker]

That is a gross misdescription of just what occurred - something which you and your cohorts seem overly prone to do with a wide range of 'facts'.

Since you have elected to so misdescribe this, following is a copy of the message that led to me deciding to cease discussing the 'Terri topic' at this site:

Why don't you just leave this topic (Terri) and find something else to compalain about?

That was the entire communication I received from Jim Rob prior to my decision to cease posting in the 'save Terri' threads.

I know that you and your co-horts would love to see me banned from here, which is made clear by your tag-team approach to trying to goad me into discussing the :Terri topic' with you.

Aside from the dispatities mentioned above, you got it right.

BTW, if you don't wish "to encourage me" by discussing this with me in private, why have you tried to goad me into discussing it in the public forum? (don't bother to answer)

[PeyersPatches]

I agree with these statements, however what we are talking about in the Terri Schiavo case is the wholesale destruction of the cerebral cortex, not a synapes failure. If you think about the synapsis of the brain as the wiring- elecrtical connections- one can repair the wiring from the power pole to the house, but if the house has burned down the lights will still not go on.

In Terri's case the house has burned down and what is left is nothing but ashes. The dead tissue has atrophied and the volume once occupied by her cerebral cortex has been replaced by spinal fluid. There is no mechanism which will grow or otherwise generate new brain tissue.

---

Are you a neurologist or otherwise have expertise in the field? Also, have you personally examined Terri Schindler's medical records and person? What are your medical credentials and first-hand knowledge of this case? I ask because you are stating information that has been debunked by actual medical experts and you are presenting information as if you are an expert with first hand knowledge. Thanks.

[Lion in Winter]

He is NOT a doctor...he is a TROLL!

[Saundra Duffy]

Judge Greer is a monster.

[Saundra Duffy]

Pearse wrote, "Mr. Schiavo indicated strongly to me (Attorney Pearse) that his petition to withdraw life support has nothing to do with the money held in the guardianship estate, which he would inherit upon the ward's (Terri's) death as her sole heir-in-law."

LOL!

[Diva Betsy Ross]

From NAL posts we have these statements:

From Jim Rob's freemail to NAL: Why don't you just leave this topic (Terri) and find something else to compalain about?

From NAL That was the entire communication I received from Jim Rob prior to my decision to cease posting in the 'save Terri' threads.

But in earlier posts NAL has posted this stuff:

TPlease respond only via Freepmail, i.e., "private reply," so that I may comply with the wishes of the owner of this site.]

Since, at the urging of this sites owner, I deciding just before sending these messages to cease participating in discussion / debate of this topic at this site,

FL-Engineer are these types or remarks that have your confused about the status of NAL posting rights on "Terri" threads?

SOunds tome like he can't keep his stories straight.

[Future Useless Eater]

Sources on #6, please. This is the first I saw of any pre- hospitalized Terri saying she was contemplating divorce. This is damning evidence if it can be corroborated.


Sooi-ten-lee... You can find a lot by searching for Schiavo + divorce, Schiavo + Diane Meyers, Schiavo + Jackie Rhodes, etc...
For starters, how about Newsweek: Nov. 3 issue — The day before Terri Schiavo’s life descended into a private purgatory in 1990, she indulged in a guilty pleasure: an $80 visit to the hairdresser. When she told her husband, Michael, over the phone, he reacted angrily at the cost and the two traded bitter words, according to Jackie Rhodes, a friend of Schiavo’s.

the Seattle Times:
Jackie Rhodes, who worked and socialized with Terri, says Michael would frequently call his wife at work and leave her in tears. She says she and Terri had each discussed divorcing their husbands and moving in together.
...

Hannity and Colmes
[attorney] Anderson: ...she was so upset about the fight, that she called her best friend from work, a girl that she had discussed, perhaps both of them getting a divorce, and taking an apartment together... She called this girl, Jackie Rhodes, told her about the big fight... She was sufficiently upset that Jackie Rhodes asked her: "Should I come over? Should I come over and spend the night with you so you'll be safe?"

Anderson: And Terri said, "No, I'll either be asleep, or pretend to be asleep when he gets home from work."... and the next thing Jackie heard, was she was in the emergency room.

...more from Newsweek:
Terri confided to her friend Rhodes that her marriage was strained. She complained that Michael was lazy and so controlling that he tracked the mileage on her new Toyota to ensure she didn’t venture too far. A few weeks before her collapse, Terri broke down crying with her brother Bobby. “I wish that I had the guts to divorce Michael,” she told him, according to an affidavit he signed, “because I cannot take being married to him anymore.”

"On the Record with Greta"
Greta: What was her marriage like with her husband?

Bobby: Well it was deteriorating Greta. I mean, we've had ahh, Terri and I had conversations ahh, prior to her collapsing that evening, where she was ahh, coming to me seeking a DIVORCE from Michael.

Bobby: And at the time, I was only in my early twenties, and ah, other than just listening to her, I really didn't offer... you know, have much to offer, as far as how to go about seeking a divorce. Ahh, she was extremely unhappy.

and THIS juicy tidbit regarding LIFE SUPPORT from St.PetersburgTimes:
...they[Terri's parents] and [friend Diane] Meyer said [IN COURT UNDER OATH], [Terri] supported placing her grandmother ON a ventilator and opposed Karen Ann Quinlan's parents, who gained national attention in the 1970s when fighting to REMOVE their daughter from life support.

this from the AP...
[best friend Diane] Meyer told a cruel joke about Quinlan, and it set Schiavo off.

"She went down my throat about this joke, that it was inappropriate," Meyer said. She remembers Schiavo wondering how the doctors and lawyers could possibly know what Quinlan was really feeling or what she would want.

"Where there's life," Meyer recalled her[Terri] saying, "there's hope."

[PeyersPatches]

He is NOT a doctor...he is a TROLL!

---

Thanks. I rather suspected as much. He is way too vitriolic.

[Future Useless Eater]

Thanks for the clarification. His last post to me was so
confusing I sat on it for a day before answering.

I did see some of those references you show, thats why it
seemed he was asked to stay off the 'Terri threads'.

Lots of disruptive/argumentative people here lately
have been asking us to take engage them offline with
PRIVATE MAIL (not quite sure why but I have theories)

[Diva Betsy Ross]

freepmail your way....

[sfRummygirl]

I have been reading stuff when I can, as there are tons of threads and info coming out in the last two weeks....you INDEED do have trolls here. I would avoid the private messaging with them, too. Your ideas of just keeping it info based for the rest of us and throwing up the 'troll alert' is good. Don't get the threads pulled.
They are scared of us and our info, and damned well they should be!

[floriduh voter]

THE TRUTH IS SCARY TO THE BAD GUYS AND THEY'D LOVE TO GAG US. WE MUST SHOW RESTRAINT BY NOT ABUSING THE "ABUSE BUTTON", and ignore The Troll element. They try to fight, to distort and to confuse.

Telling the truth is as pure as Ivory Soap. Glad to see your post. If you have any free time, can you do the flyer thing again where you are?

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Why not really piss them off and get stronger.

Hey trolls thanks for inspiring me to fight harder.

Be careful though ,even when they have been shot down in public they will freepmail us. Don't open the message, just ignore them . In honor of the unopened freepmail by trolls, I will e-mail someone in the Meida an update on the truth of this story.

There, that makes me feel alot better !

[floriduh voter]

Trolls are also reporting real Freepers to the admin mods whether there's merit or not. If that gets out of hand, I think we should have some due process.

Other than that, we know who the newbies are, IGNORING THEM IS THE BEST SOP. They want Terri killed and don't deserve replies.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

I trust that the mods know what is going on here. They are way too smart for these guys. Little trolls think they are so smart....I think the trolls have underestimated a bunch of things about this site and the peopel who post here.

[sfRummygirl]

Sure, which flyer? Just make copies and hand out? Ot do you mean organize a freep?

[sfRummygirl]

TROLL ALERT>>>>
"legerdemain"
Signed up October 15th, 2003. posts almost exclusively on the Terri issue.
Ignore all posts.

[floriduh voter]

Individuals taking a stand to get the word out that Terri is not pvs or in a coma. I think you can find a flyer at Terrisfight.org. The web site has been re-designed and it's REAL EASY TO NAVIGATE.

[Robert A. Cook, PE]

I too would VERY STRONGLY recommend always discussing such a vital question as life and death in public.

If for no other reason than the self-restriant YOU place on YOURSELF when your words are visible!

(And, if friends see your words, they too can respond in public.)

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed. Thanks for the heads up!

[Lion in Winter]

BTTT

[Future Useless Eater]

Thanks!

Join the Terri Schindler Life Ribbon Campaign!

[sweetliberty]

Thanks for jumping in here Tammy. I see that he does have a tendency to get huffy when outed, then disappears for awhile or activates another one in his place. He then turns up later on other threads acting as if nothing has happened. I think most of what he has been spewing here has been pretty soundly debunked.

For your information, here is his latest venture:

Terri Schindler Schiavo Guardianship Hearing Wednesday November 5, 2003

Personally, I don't trust anyone who tries to drag strangers into the mailbox on their first day here.